Are the Canucks elite in terms of converting draft picks into long term roster players?

[Fred65]

Exactly the quality players on the roster were players that arrived as a finished product (almost ) Vcr did not truly develop those players. Now if they can develop a player such as Persson or Jurmo in to genuine NHL players that IMO would be developing a draft pick. So far Demko is the best example of develoment and maybe DiPietro will follow

[Me_]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:39 PM, drummer4now said:

Not even close… 

 

This one of those situations everything seems fine on paper when it comes to show there a bare minimum results and I mean from the players drafted compared to Tampa or Colorado. 

Take a crap on our crap team for crap’s sakes.

 

Crap.

[DSVII]

 

I'm gonna say we aren't

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Good drafting and amateur scouting, questionable development, and also questionable pro scouting and prospect/player evaluation (post-draft).

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Canucks end up having drafted 20+ NHLers in the drafts under the Benning regime to-date, but quite possibly more of those players will end up playing for other teams, rather than contributing to a winning roster in Vancouver.

 

In some ways, this is okay, or even a good result. So long as the asset value of those picks is still reflected in the Canucks’ success. Unfortunately, that aspect is also questionable, as I’m not convinced Vancouver has maximized value on the picks who’ve left the organization (through trades, waivers, expansion, etc).

 

Overall, probably rate the Canucks pretty middling, when it comes to converting picks to roster players. And definitely some lost value and missed opportunities/mistakes in evaluation. 
 

There’s also a fair amount TBD, when it comes to current draft properties. Hopefully most of those players end up landing in the “win” column and improving the overall results.

Edited October 13, 2021 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[Me_]

20 hours ago, DSVII said:

 

I'm gonna say we aren't

What does all of this mean?

Nothing?

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

What does all of this mean?

Nothing?

If you're good at converting your draft picks and developing the prospects in house to long term roster spots. You wouldn't need to go to the UFA market as much to fill the gaps in your roster.

 

And you certainly wouldn't be top 3 in the league for number of UFA contracts on your active roster to fill the holes in your team that said draft picks should be filling.

Edited October 13, 2021 by DSVII

[DSVII]

5 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Canucks end up having drafted 20+ NHLers in the drafts under the Benning regime to-date, but quite possibly more of those players will end up playing for other teams, rather than contributing to a winning roster in Vancouver.

 

And this is why asset management is just as important a component to a rebuild as drafting. 

 

[Me_]

11 minutes ago, DSVII said:

If you're good at converting your draft picks and developing the prospects in house to long term roster spots. You wouldn't need to go to the UFA market as much to fill the gaps in your roster.

 

And you certainly wouldn't be top 3 in the league for number of UFA contracts on your active roster to fill the holes in your team that said draft picks should be filling.

Not sure what team doesn’t sign any UFAs…

Not one NHL team relies fully on drafting.

 

Always reaching for the impossible and getting upset about it isn’t the best of strategies…

[DSVII]

13 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Not sure what team doesn’t sign any UFAs…

Not one NHL team relies fully on drafting.

 

Always reaching for the impossible and getting upset about it isn’t the best of strategies…

Not upset, just answering the premise of this thread. 

 

I'm not sure what else to tell you if you're looking at the fact that our team is relying more on UFAs than 90% of the league and that's your conclusion: that all teams sign UFAs. 

 

At the very least, that means this team isn't elite at filling roster spots with in house drafted and developed picks. 

[Me_]

1 hour ago, DSVII said:

Not upset, just answering the premise of this thread. 

 

I'm not sure what else to tell you if you're looking at the fact that our team is relying more on UFAs than 90% of the league and that's your conclusion: that all teams sign UFAs. 

 

At the very least, that means this team isn't elite at filling roster spots with in house drafted and developed picks. 

This team cupboards got decimated by an idiotic GM and Benning had nothing much to work with.

 

Seven years later, he’s still rebuilding the cupboards. That’s the danger of cutting corners to build an “elite team”.

 

Losing the Cup.

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, Me_ said:

This team cupboards got decimated by an idiotic GM and Benning had nothing much to work with.

 

Seven years later, he’s still rebuilding the cupboards. That’s the danger of cutting corners to build an “elite team”.

 

Losing the Cup.

I don't know, how many years is needed to rebuild a team to the degree they're annual contenders. This is JB's 8th season. You cn only use this excuse for so long, sure Gilliis went for the gusto but for thr most part he succeeded with 2 President Tropies plus Conference and division titles plus of course his peers voted him GM of the year and game 7 of the SC, not a bad resume.  Henew a rebuild was needed it  and started the process by trading Schneider for Horvat. After Horvat signing things took a dive. But most important .... I enjoyed going to Rogers  Arena, we generally left the game with a win. Not so much for the last 7 years

[Me_]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I don't know, how many years is needed to rebuild a team to the degree they're annual contenders. This is JB's 8th season. You cn only use this excuse for so long, sure Gilliis went for the gusto but for thr most part he succeeded with 2 President Tropies plus Conference and division titles plus of course his peers voted him GM of the year and game 7 of the SC, not a bad resume.  Henew a rebuild was needed it  and started the process by trading Schneider for Horvat. After Horvat signing things took a dive. But most important .... I enjoyed going to Rogers  Arena, we generally left the game with a win. Not so much for the last 7 years

Ask the Oilers how long it takes to rebuild…

 

Gillis also had a pretty good ensemble of Burke players to start with.
 

Gillis couldn’t draft to save his life, ans bankrupted the team into a declining oblivion. No Cup, bare cupboards.

 

We are now only starting to see the horizon.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Me_

[DSVII]

40 minutes ago, Me_ said:

This team cupboards got decimated by an idiotic GM and Benning had nothing much to work with.

 

Seven years later, he’s still rebuilding the cupboards. That’s the danger of cutting corners to build an “elite team”.

 

Losing the Cup.

That context has nothing to do with what this thread is asking.

 

It's not about what Gillis left Benning, but what Benning did with what the picks he received since joining.

 

Has this team, under this regime, with the ~50 draft picks made available to them over the last 8 years from 2014-2021, been converting draft picks at an elite rate into developed roster players that play on this team?

 

Based on the amount of UFAs that make up this roster in year 8 of this regime, that is a no. But not being elite in this doesn't mean it's a bad thing, it's just one aspect of what it takes to construct a team. But that's specifically what the thread is talking about, this one aspect. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by DSVII

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, DSVII said:

That context has nothing to do with what this thread is asking.

 

It's not about what Gillis left Benning, but what Benning did with what the picks he received since joining.

 

Has this team, under this regime, with the ~50 draft picks made available to them over the last 8 years from 2014-2021, been converting draft picks at an elite rate into developed roster players that play on this team?

 

Based on the amount of UFAs that make up this roster in year 8 of this regime, that is a no. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many of the TBay double Cup winning teams' D were drafted by the Lightening?  One:  Hedman.  The got there other D from Free Agency and trades.  The draft is only one part of building a winning team.  And Benning has done a very good job with that.  

[DSVII]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How many of the TBay double Cup winning teams' D were drafted by the Lightening?  One:  Hedman.  The got there other D from Free Agency and trades.  The draft is only one part of building a winning team.  And Benning has done a very good job with that.  

Let's not ignore the entire TBL top 6 and their starting goaltender. 

 

Forwards: Point, Kucherov, Palat, Stamkos, Killorn, Cirelli, Joseph, Colton 

Defensemen: Hedman

Goaltenders: Vasilevskiy

 

On that note, how many of Tampa's cup winning D was made by trading drafted assets when they had value? 

Rutta (Koekkoek), McDonagh (Namestnikov), Sergachev (Druoin).

 

FWIW i agree, missed my edit by just a few minutes hehe:
 

Quote

 

But not being elite in this doesn't mean it's a bad thing, it's just one aspect of what it takes to construct a team. But that's specifically what the thread is talking about, this one aspect. 

 

The draft is only one part building a team. Another is being at managing your assets and extracting value. Tampa knew when to sell for the most value on players like Drouin, JT and Namestnikov. II'd like us to emulate Tampa, but I don't think Benning has been able to at that level. What have we done more? Sell high on a player when it's time to move on, or hold them till they were worth nothing?