How true is the following statement? “The Canucks aren’t in a position to be moving even more picks and prospects?”

['NucK™]

Just now, wai_lai416 said:

how many top 10 picks spend D+2 +3 +4 season in the AHL? plenty? lol

But how is that ideal? "Ideally", a top 10 F pick makes your team D+2. If they don't, likely they didn't warrant being that high of a pick 

[wai_lai416]

1 minute ago, 'NucK™ said:

But how is that ideal? "Ideally", a top 10 F pick makes your team D+2. If they don't, likely they didn't warrant being that high of a pick 

coz power forward takes longer to develop than a skilled finess player? defenseman takes longer to develop too? look at virtanen? we rushed him into the NHL and 2 years later he spent the entire year in the AHL. playing 4th line 7-8mins a game in very limited role with fringe NHLer is good for a young kid's development vs playing top line mins in a top 6 role? ppl here are projecting him to be a top 6 powerforward not a 4th line checker. he's still developing as a powerforward and we are already putting him into a 4th line checker role for his development. this coaching staff don't exactly have the track record of developing players in the NHL that wasn't literally NHL ready in their draft or d+1 year. 

['NucK™]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

coz power forward takes longer to develop than a skilled finess player? defenseman takes longer to develop too? look at virtanen? we rushed him into the NHL and 2 years later he spent the entire year in the AHL. playing 4th line 7-8mins a game in very limited role with fringe NHLer is good for a young kid's development vs playing top line mins in a top 6 role? ppl here are projecting him to be a top 6 powerforward not a 4th line checker. he's still developing as a powerforward and we are already putting him into a 4th line checker role for his development. this coaching staff don't exactly have the track record of developing players in the NHL that wasn't literally NHL ready in their draft or d+1 year. 

Well I'd personally argue that he IS "literally NHL ready", but yeah, I have no idea wtf he is doing on the 4th line..

['NucK™]

Oh and I'm not really sure how Virtanen is a good example of anything really, considering he clearly did not have his head screwed on right 

[Timråfan]

One problem with all the picks and prospects gone is that the depth if a few players more get injured is almost gone. unless a few of the new bottom 6 guys turns out to be real good. 
 

Then, why rush when the ”real” window starts in maybe two years? I don’t get it. 
It’s possible we missed Eklund that got right into the Sharks roster with this years draft. 
That player could have got us rocking in the right window. 

Who knows who else we missed… But we need the guys on cheap ELC when guys like Petey want a raise. 

[wai_lai416]

7 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Oh and I'm not really sure how Virtanen is a good example of anything really, considering he clearly did not have his head screwed on right 

it's not virtanen in general it's all power forward takes a long time to develop there's not many example of a power forward stepping into the NHL early and developed properly

['NucK™]

4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

it's not virtanen in general it's all power forward takes a long time to develop there's not many example of a power forward stepping into the NHL early and developed properly

What about both of the Tkachuks, Landeskog, Anderson... those are just a few names that come to find that were all definitely playing in the NHL in their D+2 season. Even all that aside, I still fail to see any circumstance where it is "ideal" for Pod to be playing in the AHL this year

[wai_lai416]

3 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

What about both of the Tkachuks, Landeskog, Anderson... those are just a few names that come to find that were all definitely playing in the NHL in their D+2 season. Even all that aside, I still fail to see any circumstance where it is "ideal" for Pod to be playing in the AHL this year

tkachuks were NHL ready from the get go. they are a tier or 2 above the podz. i mean podz can get there maybe? landeskog is the #2 overall pick for a reason.. anderson was returned the the junior in his first year.. and then 2 more seasons in the AHL. if u fail to see how playing 20+ mins every night vs 7-8mins in a checker role that might be in and out of the line up then u cleary don't know how player development works

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Thanks Patel.  I love your enthusiasm but there is just no way we are going to trade both Boeser and Hughes if we want to stay competitive in the future.  We need to build around those players not trade them.

 

I agree with moving Miller at some point because he is not part of the young core and will be too expensive to keep when he is UFA.  We will need to give BO an 8x8 contract in order to keep him around long term so I don't think there will be any money left for Miller.  Podkolzin will most likely be a top 6 player by then like you said.  So Miller+ could get us the RHD we need.  As for Hughes, I don't see Rathbone as his replacement.  Hughes is a phenom, Rathbone cannot match his edgework and elusiveness.  I would package Rathbone with Miller to get a top 4 RHD.

 

Manson could be had but Anaheim probably wants one of our young guys or a draft pick, so I wouldn't do that trade.  Manson isn't what he used to be.  I don't think he is the answer to our problems on the right side.  

1) Good points about Boeser and Miller.  Obviously, guys like Klimovich and Rathbone would *really* have to take significant steps in order for us to even consider them as future Boeser/Hughes replacement but I still wonder if that would be a possible future option?

 

2) Miller + Rathbone is definitely interesting.  If the Canucks are committed to both Hughes and OEL being here long term, then I question as to what kind of long term opportunities Rathbone would get here anyways?  If Podkolzin can take a big step this year a la Petey, Hughes, Boeser style, then perhaps Podz would make Miller expendable.  Maybe a Rathbone + Miller to NYI for Adam Pelech + ?

 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, 'NucK™ said:

Well I'd personally argue that he IS "literally NHL ready", but yeah, I have no idea wtf he is doing on the 4th line..

While I don’t anticipate Podkolzin being on the 4th line for very long, we should also bare in mind that Bo Horvat spent a lot of time on the bottom 6 (4th line?) in 2014-2015 as well.  Horvat proved himself and flat out earned a promotion.  
 

I get the feeling that the lotto line will reunite once Boeser gets back, while Podz will play alongside Dickinson and Garland.  

['NucK™]

43 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

if u fail to see how playing 20+ mins every night vs 7-8mins in a checker role that might be in and out of the line up then u cleary don't know how player development works

lol.. guess Horvat was just a fluke then too.. your comments are so dismissive there is clearly no point of actually trying to have a constructive discussion. I disagree that Pod is better off playing 20+ mins in the AHL and will just leave it at that 

[Patel Bure]

43 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

tkachuks were NHL ready from the get go. they are a tier or 2 above the podz. i mean podz can get there maybe? landeskog is the #2 overall pick for a reason.. anderson was returned the the junior in his first year.. and then 2 more seasons in the AHL. if u fail to see how playing 20+ mins every night vs 7-8mins in a checker role that might be in and out of the line up then u cleary don't know how player development works

You do bring up some good points and this is also one of the reasons why I wanted Rathbone to start in the A (so, even if Juolevi was worse than Rathbone, you could give Juolevi that 3rd pairing LD spot while letting Rathbone go to Abby, log huge minutes, and then get frequent call ups to play on the 2nd pairing if one of OEL or Hughes went down).  I’m also a little concerned as to what kind of minutes and duties Rathbone will get given his natural style of game.

 

I don’t quite have this same concern with Podkolzin as I expect that he’ll play with Dickinson and Garland on the 3rd line at some point.

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Garland-Dickinson-Podkolzin

Motte-Highmore-Chiasson

['NucK™]

4 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

While I don’t anticipate Podkolzin being on the 4th line for very long, we should also bare in mind that Bo Horvat spent a lot of time on the bottom 6 (4th line?) in 2014-2015 as well.  Horvat proved himself and flat out earned a promotion.

Exactly. It wouldn't be shocking at all for Pod to follow a very similar path. I would've still given him a look with some more skilled players right off the get go, but I think we also forget that this is a guy who's had only like a dozen or two real practices with his team 

[wai_lai416]

24 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

lol.. guess Horvat was just a fluke then too.. your comments are so dismissive there is clearly no point of actually trying to have a constructive discussion. I disagree that Pod is better off playing 20+ mins in the AHL and will just leave it at that 

is horvat a powerforward? last i checked he's a 2 way forward that learned his defensive game playing the bottom role it's literally his style. podz is a power forward stop trying to fit a square peg into a circle hole.

[wai_lai416]

33 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Exactly. It wouldn't be shocking at all for Pod to follow a very similar path. I would've still given him a look with some more skilled players right off the get go, but I think we also forget that this is a guy who's had only like a dozen or two real practices with his team 

ok so let's just say podz struggles in the 3rd and 4th line and doesn't earn a promotion playing with fringe players loses his confidence when he gets demoted and sent down to the AHL and struggles there then what? it's not like he played crazy amount of mins in the KHL either as they barely used him. so in the last 2 years he play significantly less than most prospects developing at the same age.

[Elias Pettersson]

57 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

1) Good points about Boeser and Miller.  Obviously, guys like Klimovich and Rathbone would *really* have to take significant steps in order for us to even consider them as future Boeser/Hughes replacement but I still wonder if that would be a possible future option?

 

2) Miller + Rathbone is definitely interesting.  If the Canucks are committed to both Hughes and OEL being here long term, then I question as to what kind of long term opportunities Rathbone would get here anyways?  If Podkolzin can take a big step this year a la Petey, Hughes, Boeser style, then perhaps Podz would make Miller expendable.  Maybe a Rathbone + Miller to NYI for Adam Pelech + ?

 

 

 

With OEL here long term I don’t see a spot for Rathbone.  He would be on the 3rd pairing where we need a big body on the left side that can kill penalties. Podkolzin and Klimovich could be top 6 replacements for Miller. 
 

So at the end of the day Miller and Rathbone would be expendable. A top 4 RHD and a tough as nails guy who can play on the 4th line and kill penalties are our priorities right now. Basically a Sutter and Hamonic replacements. 
 

Lammikko could be the 4C we need but he also could be moved to wing if we can get a right hand shot to pivot the 4th line. 

[Patel Bure]

31 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

is horvat a powerforward? last i checked he's a 2 way forward that learned his defensive game playing the bottom role it's literally his style. podz is a power forward stop trying to fit a square peg into a circle hole.

I think Horvat sometimes gets miscast as a two way guy a la Linden, Kesler, Toews, etc.  While Horvat isn’t the type of guy to blow other men into the boards Eric Lindros style, I think Horvat should still be classified as a power forward.  A Jeff Carter/Jason Arnott type.  Horvat likes working down low, rarely loses puck battles, and drives the net.  His defensive game is a little weak however and he’s not exactly the greatest penalty killer.  Horvat is a bull out there.  

[Patel Bure]

23 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

ok so let's just say podz struggles in the 3rd and 4th line and doesn't earn a promotion playing with fringe players loses his confidence when he gets demoted and sent down to the AHL and struggles there then what? it's not like he played crazy amount of mins in the KHL either as they barely used him. so in the last 2 years he play significantly less than most prospects developing at the same age.

I would argue that top players find a way to become better, and don’t let a short term loss of confidence affect them that much. Quite honestly, I don’t expect Podkolzin to spend all that much time on the 4th line.  He started to come around substantially by the end of the preseason and we all know how he elevated his game in the playoffs for his team last season.  
 

I think Benning and Green would have sent Podkolzin down had they felt that Podz wasn’t ready to crack the top 9 in the big club this year.  There’s a reason why Podkolzin spent a lot of time playing with Miller and Petan.

[Elias Pettersson]

33 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

ok so let's just say podz struggles in the 3rd and 4th line and doesn't earn a promotion playing with fringe players loses his confidence when he gets demoted and sent down to the AHL and struggles there then what? it's not like he played crazy amount of mins in the KHL either as they barely used him. so in the last 2 years he play significantly less than most prospects developing at the same age.

Wasn't Podkolzin an almost point a game guy in the KHL playoffs last year playing top minutes?

[Elias Pettersson]

47 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

is horvat a powerforward? last i checked he's a 2 way forward that learned his defensive game playing the bottom role it's literally his style. podz is a power forward stop trying to fit a square peg into a circle hole.

Horvat is 215 pounds.  Last I checked that would classify him as a power forward.  He can even drop the mitts.  Doesn't do it very often but when he does he rarely loses a fight.  He plays centre so he doesn't have the opportunity to bang and crash in the corners like a typical power forward but he does have the physique for it and can play that role if needed.