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[Proposal] Vancouver - New York Rangers


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Vancouver Canucks get

Vitaly Kravtsov, Nils Lundkvist 

 

New York Rangers get 

JT Miller, Jet Woo, 2022 3rd round pick 

 

Canucks get younger and more skilled and more cap room available to add a player through the season that may come available during the season.

Kravtsov can play in the top 6 in Abby and help Klimovich or stays with Vancouver and can play in the top 6 or 9 and Lundkvist was a stud in the SHL and can help rescue that right side of the defence and play with Hughes or OEL and make the defence better. 

It sucks losing JT Miller as he had real good chemistry with Petey but Canucks can't afford to resign him in two years with him, Horvat and Höglander needing new deals in the same year and then Petey the year after. This trade is a risk, but at least with Kravtsov and Lundkvist Canucks would be hedging their bets on 2 young players that have been good playing against men in their top home country leagues and Canucks badly need a RHD and I think Lundkvist could be the answer with his SHL pedigree. 

 

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So Kravtsov wants out, and as a blue chip prospect we trade our top LW to get him?  (I think Lundkvist for Woo and a pick would be fair so the first half becomes a swap of the forwards, but I'd also rather have a defensive oriented RD instead of another puck-mover like him).

If we're trading JT I'd want at least Kravtsov, plus another cost-controlled, young roster regular or a 1st round pick, since Miller still has term now on a team-friendly deal.

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1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:

So Kravtsov wants out, and as a blue chip prospect we trade our top LW to get him?  (I think Lundkvist for Woo and a pick would be fair so the first half becomes a swap of the forwards, but I'd also rather have a defensive oriented RD instead of another puck-mover like him).

If we're trading JT I'd want at least Kravtsov, plus another cost-controlled, young roster regular or a 1st round pick, since Miller still has term now on a team-friendly deal.

Rangers want a top 6 player in a straight up trade as has been reported by Dreger and the Rangers adding Lundkvist is a win because Woo is 2 years away and Vancouver badly needs a young NHL RHD on a ELC to be able to resign their core players over the next 3 years.

Edited by IjustNEEDaTROYgamble
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17 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:

Rangers want a top 6 player in a straight up trade as has been reported by Dreger and the Rangers adding Lundkvist is a win because Woo is 2 years away and Vancouver badly needs a young NHL RHD on a ELC to be able to resign their core players over the next 3 years.

The Rangers want a top-6 player... and so what does this do for Vancouver/ why are we quick to help them?  Also, with the OEL trade Benning's basically gone all in for the near future.  Until/ if we fall out of contention then maybe Miller gets moved and they won't be thinking about how to re-sign their core when the current season's just started   Lastly, getting an ELC is overrated.  He may be a shiny new toy but you're also neglecting how the roster is currently built, with puck-movers on the left (OEL/ Hughes/ Rathbone) and defensive guys on the right (Myers/ Poolman/ Schenn).  Again, Lundkvist is not a defensive D but under 6' tall, so his pairing just might be a defensive liability.

Again, no thanks.       

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15 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

The Rangers want a top-6 player... and so what does this do for Vancouver/ why are we quick to help them?  Also, with the OEL trade Benning's basically gone all in for the near future.  Until/ if we fall out of contention then maybe Miller gets moved and they won't be thinking about how to re-sign their core when the current season's just started   Lastly, getting an ELC is overrated.  He may be a shiny new toy but you're also neglecting how the roster is currently built, with puck-movers on the left (OEL/ Hughes/ Rathbone) and defensive guys on the right (Myers/ Poolman/ Schenn).  Again, Lundkvist is not a defensive D but under 6' tall, so his pairing just might be a defensive liability.

Again, no thanks.       

We wouldn't be helping them, in the end game approach they would be helping the Canucks out with cap space and young players on ELC that have the chance to make a difference and Rangers are on the hot seat to make the playoffs more then the Canucks after what the owner did at the end of the season and if this deal were to happen I could see it happen in November if the Ranger young winger prospects aren't producing and Kravtsov is sitting on the couch I can see Drury doing this. 
ELC's are overrated lol

Are you serious they are must when you have half of a young team core needing new contracts and Petey's is going to be $10,000,000+ if he does what is of expected of him. 

Edited by IjustNEEDaTROYgamble
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30 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:

We wouldn't be helping them, in the end game approach they would be helping the Canucks out with cap space and young players on ELC that have the chance to make a difference and Rangers are on the hot seat to make the playoffs more then the Canucks after what the owner did at the end of the season and if this deal were to happen I could see it happen in November if the Ranger young winger prospects aren't producing and Kravtsov is sitting on the couch I can see Drury doing this. 
ELC's are overrated lol

Are you serious they are must when you have half of a young team core needing new contracts and Petey's is going to be $10,000,000+ if he does what is of expected of him. 

Cap space is great.  Young players on ELC's are great.  
The Rangers being on the hot seat to make the playoffs, MORE than the Canucks?  I don't know about that, if anything Benning might lose his job and he'll want to load up to compete than fall short again and get laid off.

Also, what makes you think that we'd want a holdout who's missed a couple months (since you mentioned that Kravtsov would be "sitting on the couch")?  Miller's our top LW and our team's put emphasis on character guys time and time again.  
Re: the contracts, Pearson and Myers are coming off the books in the same 2024-25 offseason as Pete, just like Quinn Hughes and OEL both reach UFA status in 2026-27.  What's more, with Miller and Horvat's UFA status in two seasons from now, the team still has $33 million in cap space according to Capfriendly for that year, with the only other major guy to retain being an RFA Hoglander.  If you think that management won't line up contracts that expire at the right time to fit in their franchise pieces, I'd suggest you look at their cap situation again. 

Edited by Phil_314
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3 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Cap space is great.  Young players on ELC's are great.  
The Rangers being on the hot seat to make the playoffs, MORE than the Canucks?  I don't know about that, if anything Benning might lose his job and he'll want to load up to compete than fall short again and get laid off.

Also, what makes you think that we'd want a holdout who's missed a couple months (since you mentioned that Kravtsov would be "sitting on the couch")?  Miller's our top LW and our team's put emphasis on character guys time and time again.  
Re: the contracts, Pearson and Myers are coming off the books in the same 2024-25 offseason as Pete, just like Quinn Hughes and OEL both reach UFA status in 2026-27.  What's more, with Miller and Horvat's UFA status in two seasons from now, the team still has $33 million in cap space according to Capfriendly for that year, with the only other major guy to retain being an RFA Hoglander.  If you think that management won't line up contracts that expire at the right time to fit in their franchise pieces, I'd suggest you look at their cap situation again. 

I simply do not trust JB to manage the cap well enough to keep all or even most of their core in the next 3 years because he has done nothing to prove this in past 7 seasons he can balance the cap without losing a player because of cap space or not sign a key younger player like Boeser or Petey to longer term deals because of cap space limitations. 
If Kravtsov is waiting he's going to be skating and working out, sitting on the couch is just an expression used to not playing it doesn't actually mean he is only going to be on his couch for a month lol 

 

$33,000,000 is not that much in cap space when Horvat and Höglander alone are going to come close to around $15,000,000 in cap space so that's why Kravtsov and Lundkvist make a difference in not needing to find a top 9 winger when Kravtsov will only be a few million cap hit at the most unless he goes supersonic but if signed for his 2nd contract being an RFA it would at most be $3,000,000 and also have a top 4 RHD still on a ELC is what is needed to be salary cap competent with so many good young players. 

 

Edited by IjustNEEDaTROYgamble
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3 hours ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:

Rangers want a top 6 player in a straight up trade as has been reported by Dreger and the Rangers adding Lundkvist is a win because Woo is 2 years away and Vancouver badly needs a young NHL RHD on a ELC to be able to resign their core players over the next 3 years.

Rangers' owner fired Gorton in part because their rebuild was too slow.  NYR are looking to compete now too and Lundqvist is far more ready than Woo and has made their opening roster.  Per Friedman NYR are not interested in trading Lundqvist - they were always going to make room for him.

 

 It's too early to move Miller when the team is trying to take the next step this season.  Höglander and Podkolzin aren't ready to replace Miller's contribution.

 

If Vancouver takes a step back this season, they will be in tough to retain Pettersson in 3 years.  He can just sign his qualifying offer and become a UFA after 4 years. Boeser can do the same - 1 year at 7.5M and he is then UFA.  Horvat might not extend either - he's been saying that he wants to be in the playoffs and doesn't want to go into another rebuild.  

 

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18 hours ago, Odjick 4 Premier said:

I simply do not trust JB to manage the cap well enough to keep all or even most of their core in the next 3 years because he has done nothing to prove this in past 7 seasons he can balance the cap without losing a player because of cap space or not sign a key younger player like Boeser or Petey to longer term deals because of cap space limitations. 
If Kravtsov is waiting he's going to be skating and working out, sitting on the couch is just an expression used to not playing it doesn't actually mean he is only going to be on his couch for a month lol 

 

$33,000,000 is not that much in cap space when Horvat and Höglander alone are going to come close to around $15,000,000 in cap space so that's why Kravtsov and Lundkvist make a difference in not needing to find a top 9 winger when Kravtsov will only be a few million cap hit at the most unless he goes supersonic but if signed for his 2nd contract being an RFA it would at most be $3,000,000 and also have a top 4 RHD still on a ELC is what is needed to be salary cap competent with so many good young players. 

 

Fair enough, Benning does make it close to impossible to retain everyone without cap gymnastics, I'll give you that much.  It still doesn't make sense to preemptively trade Miller ahead of time when the current season has just started, and he's a key cog on our top line.

Of course I understand that it's just a phrase when you say "sitting on the couch", but many times actual sports commentators agree that those kinds of workouts don't equate to being in game shape.  ALSO your rebuttal missed the fact that I was talking about him lacking character and demanding a trade -- the fact is Benning doesn't keep those guys around when they've spoken up.

Now here's where you lost me.  In what world do Horvat and Hoglander come close to $15 million?  First of all, even as of next season the cap is slated to go UP, and even if Horvat passes the likes of Ryan O'Reilly ($7.5 million) and Patrice Bergeron ($6.875 million) and say gets almost $8 million, you think that Hoglander will command $7 million coming off his rookie contract?  He's good, don't get me wrong, but guys like him don't make much more than $4 million (and he's certainly not Pettersson or Hughes).  Lastly, our most recent top draft choice, Klimovich, will probably be ready by then if not even earlier so there's an ELC that can effectively contribute too. 

Lundkvist is also not a top-4 RHD at this time so it doesn't make sense to exaggerate that he is one, and likely won't be playing top-4 given the makeup of our team (Hughes and Ekman-Larsson are our two top-4 LHD, and both need defensive-minded partners with physicality -- Myers, Poolman.  Lundkvist isn't that guy).

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5 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Fair enough, Benning does make it close to impossible to retain everyone without cap gymnastics, I'll give you that much.  It still doesn't make sense to preemptively trade Miller ahead of time when the current season has just started, and he's a key cog on our top line.

Of course I understand that it's just a phrase when you say "sitting on the couch", but many times actual sports commentators agree that those kinds of workouts don't equate to being in game shape.  ALSO your rebuttal missed the fact that I was talking about him lacking character and demanding a trade -- the fact is Benning doesn't keep those guys around when they've spoken up.

Now here's where you lost me.  In what world do Horvat and Hoglander come close to $15 million?  First of all, even as of next season the cap is slated to go UP, and even if Horvat passes the likes of Ryan O'Reilly ($7.5 million) and Patrice Bergeron ($6.875 million) and say gets almost $8 million, you think that Hoglander will command $7 million coming off his rookie contract?  He's good, don't get me wrong, but guys like him don't make much more than $4 million (and he's certainly not Pettersson or Hughes).  Lastly, our most recent top draft choice, Klimovich, will probably be ready by then if not even earlier so there's an ELC that can effectively contribute too. 

Lundkvist is also not a top-4 RHD at this time so it doesn't make sense to exaggerate that he is one, and likely won't be playing top-4 given the makeup of our team (Hughes and Ekman-Larsson are our two top-4 LHD, and both need defensive-minded partners with physicality -- Myers, Poolman.  Lundkvist isn't that guy).

I never said Höglander was getting $7,000,000 on his deal, he will probably get around $4,000,000- $5,000,000 for 5 years and he will be worth it if he keeps it up and Horvat is going to start at $6,500,000 and could go over $7,000,000 as he is going into UFA years and is an essential part of the franchise and can see it going to $7,500,000 if the Canucks only want to go 5 years instead if 6-8 a player in his position would want which is the Canucks over a barrel. So that would be a total of just under $15,000,000 at around $13,000,000 right?

As for the Rangers I don't believe you are Mr. up to date on Ranger prospects but not many are (nor was I until I went down that rabbit hole lol). Anyways Lundvkist is head and shoulders above any other Ranger defenceman prospect and by his dominance at the SHL this past year and draft year and winning best SHL defenseman over other prospects that are starting in the NHL this year then I doubt you will have to worry about him as a 5 or 6 and he will play his way into top 4. As for Kravtsov he wants out of the Rangers organization as it sounds like something happened with the change in the front office and he is willing to play in the AHL where ever he goes and it's not like he has previous history of doing this. Don't trust my words look at the links on how good these guys are and how there is high ceiling for both.

https://www.blueshirtsbreakaway.com/2021/10/11/2021-new-york-rangers-organizational-prospect-rankings/

 

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/09/13/2021-new-york-rangers-prospects/

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/rangers-untouchable-prospects-2021-22/

 

we will have to agree to disagree on this but if the Canucks want a better RHD it will cost them Miller and it is inevitable one way or the other. 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Odjick 4 Premier said:

I never said Höglander was getting $7,000,000 on his deal, he will probably get around $4,000,000- $5,000,000 for 5 years and he will be worth it if he keeps it up and Horvat is going to start at $6,500,000 and could go over $7,000,000 as he is going into UFA years and is an essential part of the franchise and can see it going to $7,500,000 if the Canucks only want to go 5 years instead if 6-8 a player in his position would want which is the Canucks over a barrel. So that would be a total of just under $15,000,000 at around $13,000,000 right?

21 hours ago, Odjick 4 Premier said:

$33,000,000 is not that much in cap space when Horvat and Höglander alone are going to come close to around $15,000,000 in cap space

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Good for Kravtsov to want out and for Lundkvist to be a blue-chipper, bottom line the current timing is not right (Miller is a valued contributor on our top line while Kravtsov wants out, and Lundkvist is a blue chipper who might not yet be ready for big minutes).  I see the upside of your proposal, don't get me wrong, but just not for now while management here wants to win.  Ok I'm done.   

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On 10/13/2021 at 6:39 PM, Odjick 4 Premier said:

Vancouver Canucks get

Vitaly Kravtsov, Nils Lundkvist 

 

New York Rangers get 

JT Miller, Jet Woo, 2022 3rd round pick 

 

Canucks get younger and more skilled and more cap room available to add a player through the season that may come available during the season.

Kravtsov can play in the top 6 in Abby and help Klimovich or stays with Vancouver and can play in the top 6 or 9 and Lundkvist was a stud in the SHL and can help rescue that right side of the defence and play with Hughes or OEL and make the defence better. 

It sucks losing JT Miller as he had real good chemistry with Petey but Canucks can't afford to resign him in two years with him, Horvat and Höglander needing new deals in the same year and then Petey the year after. This trade is a risk, but at least with Kravtsov and Lundkvist Canucks would be hedging their bets on 2 young players that have been good playing against men in their top home country leagues and Canucks badly need a RHD and I think Lundkvist could be the answer with his SHL pedigree. 

 

Lundkvist is a right side D but is an offensive defenseman.  He doesn’t really fit our needs.

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