Been really impressed with OEL/Garland so far...

[KKnight]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

My pleasant surprise list:

-Garland

-OEL

-Podkolzin

-Hoglander

-Myers

-Burroughs

 

Kind of what I expected:

-Pettersson

-Hughes

-Miller

-Rathbone

-Demko

-Highmore

-Chiasson

 

Disappointed in so far:

-Dickinson

-Pearson

-Halak

 

 

I think Bo has been outstanding so far as well. But, Bo is a machine, so it's not surprising. 

[Ilunga]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

I think even the doubters of this team thought Garland was an awesome pickup. It's really the OEL acquisition that had people questioning this trade. I didn't question this trade at all. OEL is/was a lot better than what these 'fancy' stats pansies could have perceived. Just comes to show you that numbers are just numbers; how you interpret them is where someone can just be outright wrong.

 

We've seen Arizona fail miserably when building a roster through stats, although Carolina/TB have also embraced fancy stats.

 

There's also something that numbers alone just don't explain - human will/motivation. What drives Garland to play like he does? I welcome any math wizes to come up with some BS statistic to 'explain' it.

They can't.

 

And you can't teach it, you're either born with it or you're not. 

 

It's not only hating to lose,it's having the motivation to try and make sure that doesn't happen.

 

That's why I have always avoided team sports.

You are relying on your team mates to be as driven to win as you are.

 

Drop in hockey is different I play that for the fun of doing something I love however the sports I wanted to succeed at MTB and Skiing are individual and no one can let me down.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, The Listening said:

Was Dickinson ever advertised as someone who could bring offense? I thought he was coming in as a solid defensive centreman who could bring stability to our bottom six. I would love if Dickinson could bring offense but we've been lacking a true bottom-six centerman who can actually defend in the defensive zone for a long time, I mean since the days of Malholtra. So if Dickinson can fill that role, I'm more than happy.

Benning mentioned that he thought Dickinson had some untapped hidden offensive potential.

 

I guess my interpretation of the Dickinson situation was that he would be going from a 4th line C spot in Dallas to a 3rd line C position here where he’d be able to showcase more of a two way game rather than being a Beagle/Sutter type guy who doesn’t do face offs well.

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I've found Dickinson to be exactly as advertised. Strong defensive 3/4C with lots of grit and ready to kill tons of penalties. I've liked what I've seen

I would just like to see a little more offensively than him.....just to get him away from that “being another Sutter/Beagle” image.  

[N4ZZY]

Definitely been impressed with OEL defensively and offensively. He's moving well out there on the ice. 

 

Garland, I haven't really noticed him on the ice offensively except for that one goal he had against Philly on a bad angle shot. He seems to be fiesty on the ice, so I think that's good? Has a pretty good motor, keeps going and applying pressure. Overall, I think the team's off to a little bit of a slow start offensively. 

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

True, but how is that any different from what we saw out of Jay Beagle and Brandon Sutter these past few years?  Only difference being that those guys can win face-offs.  Dickinson was advertised as a guy that had some untapped hidden offensive potential. He was supposed to be our 3rd line center that could play a two way game while serving as a playmaker for our talented wingers.  So far, I’m not seeing this offensive side or this hidden offensive potential.

i don't remember anyone saying he had offensive potential

[thrago]

Whats good 3rd line offense in terms of points? 30 or so or is it higher?

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

True, but how is that any different from what we saw out of Jay Beagle and Brandon Sutter these past few years?  Only difference being that those guys can win face-offs.  Dickinson was advertised as a guy that had some untapped hidden offensive potential. He was supposed to be our 3rd line center that could play a two way game while serving as a playmaker for our talented wingers.  So far, I’m not seeing this offensive side or this hidden offensive potential.

 Nobody ever said he had that.   Only that he was a strong defensive player, which he is.   I said this when we traded him several times, don't expect a scoring line with Dickinson as a third line C, and he's probably best suited on Sutters and Mottes line to create an awesome fourth defensive line.   Play Miller as a third line C between Podz and Pearson/Hogs or whomever.   Your not seeing it, because it's not there.   Nothing wrong with 12-15 goals and 20 plus points on a defensive shut down line either.

 

Edit: The "nobody" in this instance - were the experts.   

Edited October 18, 2021 by IBatch

[Jester13]

3 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

i don't remember anyone saying he had offensive potential

I'm pretty sure it was Benning that sounded hopeful about more offence from Dickie. I'm hopeful that he's just finding his legs still early in the season, because so far he looks pretty slow out there. My eye test hasn't been able to tell if he's been effective or not, but I still think he was a good signing. 

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I'm pretty sure it was Benning that sounded hopeful about more offence from Dickie. I'm hopeful that he's just finding his legs still early in the season, because so far he looks pretty slow out there. My eye test hasn't been able to tell if he's been effective or not, but I still think he was a good signing. 

I read some nice things about him that Dallas had to say, that he's a good player that's going to have a long successful career - in other words the usual pleasant things you say about a player that you trade, that you wouldn't if you weren't stuck in the cap mud etc.   The only thing i can say about Dickinson, was that he was noticeable against Vegas, a lot of Dallas's players were not, Vegas held the edge on play most of the series (not as much as against us but it was still obvious), Dickinson reminded me a little of Ferland out there - bashing and banging everything that moved when he could.   A guy that can play 17-18mins, and only get 25 or so points a year must be good at something, for him it's defense and PK.    Not much to find about his offense, but he is in his prime so who knows.  

[IBatch]

44 minutes ago, thrago said:

Whats good 3rd line offense in terms of points? 30 or so or is it higher?

40 would be nice ... 20/20...Id consider that very good third line numbers...the elite guys are middle six ones, that can move up and produce more like Miller was in TB playing 14mins a game and getting close to 50 points - but they are very tough to find.    Usually it's the rising stars that get the most bang for your buck as third liners.   It's nice to have the depth including a vet that deserves that type of money, Stastny in his mid 30's making Miller type money cantered Vegas 3/4 line for example.   In TB they had the luxury of Tyler Johnson for a long time too.   Spreading out the offense makes it tough to defend against - was hoping we kept Gadj that would have given us 9 middle/top 9 players with him as the wild card so 8, and used Dickinson with Motte and Sutter and roll 4 lines ... 4th could play 10-14 minutes some games if needed (to keep a lead for example).   With BB, Motte and Sutter out ... guess we will have to wait to see what this team can truly ice.   So far all considered, i'm happy with how they've played. 

 

Edit: 30 points is decent though.   What you should hope to get from guys playing 14 mins a game.    We didn't get that last year from our bottom six and it killed us.   Only Sutter produced. 

 

Edit: On Sutter.  Aside from his injuries he played decently enough for us under his last contract, close to 20/20 prorated often enough, even last year he was on pace for decent/good third line production.   Sucks he's not ready but sure glad to have him in the wings, and even 50% is good value for what he offers at one million per year.    Motte same thing.   Can't wait until they are back.   Same as BB as that will bump a guy out. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by IBatch

[EddieVedder]

4 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

I would just like to see a little more offensively than him.....just to get him away from that “being another Sutter/Beagle” image.  

He played between seguin and benn for stints.  He has offensive talent. 

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Thanks, OP..nice positivity.

 

Do we thank the dreaded Covid for this larceny? Already I'm sure Ariz is just a useless $-shredder. With the lousy economy they were even more desperate to dump 70 million(OEL, & Garland's pending negotiation) at this point in time.

 

But it feels like just karma for our team. When Kes flew the coop, poor JB got a choice of 2 destinations to deal with. Well, apparently OEL had the same demand - in his case, very fair in accordance to his NMC, on paper.

 

So we get to DUMP 8 figures of lousy vet-AAV, & acquire 2 studs? Hey, JB's 2014 stress-intro can now be completely forgiven & forgotten!

You summarized well. At first blush I wondered what the heck ARZ was doing. Yes, they are bleeding cash and their assets, OEL and Garland were more than ready to leave. That said I had to think that ARZ would/could have held out until the season was underway and then got more. Maybe not what OEL would have been happy with but he could have at least got out of Dodge and then moved where he wanted to as a UFA. Garland is less clear. Was he simply sweetener that JB demanded or was there more to it? 

 

Interviews by both these players indicates their desire to play in Vancouver. Yes, young talent with a strong prospect of serious CUP play in the future. Another reason I will throw out there is the integrity and reputation of Jim Benning. All indications are that he is well respected by players and managements around the NHL. 

[kloubek]

I too have been very happy with the play of both guys. 

Garland has incredible maneuverability - he's so fun to watch. Last game he went back and forth on a Detroit player something like 4 or 5 times; incredibly hard to control. I love how he mixes it up and gets involved even though he's a really small guy. He's the kind of small guy you *want* on a team, if you must have small guys. Kinda like Quinn in that way. I'll be curious how he'd fare in the playoffs.

 

OEL has been exactly what we were hoping for. I agree that he looks like a noticeable upgrade on either Edler as well as Schmidt - though I would argue that the former didn't get full recognition for everything he did for this team... even if he was getting pretty slow.

 

I do think it's too early to say for certain how these guys will pan out, but the early payoffs look strong indeed. My only issue with the trade wasn't so much the player exchange itself - which was clearly in our favour from the beginning - but it rather it will come down to how the OEL contract ages. We traded a handful of bad but 1 year contracts for many years of OEL. If he falls off a cliff, things can go downhill very quickly indeed.

 

I guess that can be said about all long term contracts for big dollar names....

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

 Nobody ever said he had that.   Only that he was a strong defensive player, which he is.   I said this when we traded him several times, don't expect a scoring line with Dickinson as a third line C, and he's probably best suited on Sutters and Mottes line to create an awesome fourth defensive line.   Play Miller as a third line C between Podz and Pearson/Hogs or whomever.   Your not seeing it, because it's not there.   Nothing wrong with 12-15 goals and 20 plus points on a defensive shut down line either.

 

Edit: The "nobody" in this instance - were the experts.   

Not easy to do but I am looking for a more balanced allocation of TOI across the board. Early yet but in the past Green has gone to his top line and to Hughes and, last year Edler, this year OEL. I like a more balanced approach, more like Trotz. It puts pressure on the top players to make the most of their TOI. How many 2 minute shifts did Hughes and JD take last year? A team building towards serious playoff contention cannot do this as a matter of course. It undermines the development of the overall team and lends itself to disunity. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Boudrias
spelling

[thrago]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

40 would be nice ... 20/20...Id consider that very good third line numbers...the elite guys are middle six ones, that can move up and produce more like Miller was in TB playing 14mins a game and getting close to 50 points - but they are very tough to find.    Usually it's the rising stars that get the most bang for your buck as third liners.   It's nice to have the depth including a vet that deserves that type of money, Stastny in his mid 30's making Miller type money cantered Vegas 3/4 line for example.   In TB they had the luxury of Tyler Johnson for a long time too.   Spreading out the offense makes it tough to defend against - was hoping we kept Gadj that would have given us 9 middle/top 9 players with him as the wild card so 8, and used Dickinson with Motte and Sutter and roll 4 lines ... 4th could play 10-14 minutes some games if needed (to keep a lead for example).   With BB, Motte and Sutter out ... guess we will have to wait to see what this team can truly ice.   So far all considered, i'm happy with how they've played. 

 

Edit: 30 points is decent though.   What you should hope to get from guys playing 14 mins a game.    We didn't get that last year from our bottom six and it killed us.   Only Sutter produced. 

 

Edit: On Sutter.  Aside from his injuries he played decently enough for us under his last contract, close to 20/20 prorated often enough, even last year he was on pace for decent/good third line production.   Sucks he's not ready but sure glad to have him in the wings, and even 50% is good value for what he offers at one million per year.    Motte same thing.   Can't wait until they are back.   Same as BB as that will bump a guy out. 

ok so under 30 is underwhelming over 30 is ok 40+ is pretty good and 50 or more is Elite level.  I pretty much only get time to watch the Canucks so I don't have a good read of what's going on around the league.  I'd say if Hoglander spends a good amount of time on the 3rd he could hit the elite lvl or close doubt Dickenson does but maybe 30 then Podz/Sutter/Motte make 30 or at least prorated 30. which leaves us with and average to maybe slightly above average 3rd in my estimation. 

 

It seems to me that Green likes to play the 3rd line as a checking line and the 4th as an energy line which could account for some of the lack of production where as if you have Stasny on your 3rd it's going to be more of a 3rd scoring line.  That being said it could be Green just hasn't had the horses to make a 3rd scoring line.  I think with Podz Dickinson and Hoglanger you could have a decent scoring line but I think it depends on how Green wants to play them.

Edited October 18, 2021 by thrago
added

[BabychStache]

If OEL can maintain this play for the season, I would be surprised to see him top 5 in Norris voting. 
 

Color me impressed thus far. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, thrago said:

ok so under 30 is underwhelming over 30 is ok 40+ is pretty good and 50 or more is Elite level.  I pretty much only get time to watch the Canucks so I don't have a good read of what's going on around the league.  I'd say if Hoglander spends a good amount of time on the 3rd he could hit the elite lvl or close doubt Dickenson does but maybe 30 then Podz/Sutter/Motte make 30 or at least prorated 30. which leaves us with and average to maybe slightly above average 3rd in my estimation. 

 

It seems to me that Green likes to play the 3rd line as a checking line and the 4th as an energy line which could account for some of the lack of production where as if you have Stasny on your 3rd it's going to be more of a 3rd scoring line.  That being said it could be Green just hasn't had the horses to make a 3rd scoring line.  I think with Podz Dickinson and Hoglanger you could have a decent scoring line but I think it depends on how Green wants to play them.

 No worries.   Right now we really don't have the components for a 3rd scoring line with BB, Motte and Sutter out.   Once they are back we could do that though.   With the existing guys can't really complain much with the effort, 23 shots in one period even against Detroit is pretty awesome.   For sure before this season, we haven't had the right guys to make three scoring lines, it worked out decently with JV and AG two seasons ago though.    Your right to say exactly that too, 20/20 is where we need to get to be competitive as a depth team.  

Edited October 18, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

54 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Not easy to do but I am looking for a more balanced allocation of TOI across the board. Early yet but in the past Green has gone to his top line and to Hughes and, last year Edler, this year OEL. I like a more balanced approach, more like Trotz. It puts pressure on the top players to make the most of their TOI. How many 2 minute shifts did Hughes and JD take last year? A team building towards serious playoff contention cannot do this as a matter of course. It undermines the development of the overall team and lends itself to disunity. 

Me too.   Tough to start without BB, Motte and Sutter though, that's 2/3 of one line and a key player in the top six out.     So far the effort is there and he has the room so willing to not pretend i know more then he does about what's going on in the room or on the bench day to day.   Sometimes players are more on then others .... Motte getting 18 mins some playoff games for example.

[stawns]

24 minutes ago, BabychStache said:

If OEL can maintain this play for the season, I would be surprised to see him top 5 in Norris voting. 
 

Color me impressed thus far. 

You can see OEL will likely be one of those dmen who will be very good late into his career.