How Green's coaching and Benning's trades degraded this team

[*Buzzsaw*]

Where do I start?

 

Quinn Hughes:

 

Everyone knows Hughes is a rare offensive talent.  He is someone who excels in a Run and Gun offense, or as a powerplay quarterback.

 

What he isn't is a defensive ace... he is not a #1 Defenseman.  A real #1 D can do it all... both offense and defense... Hughes simply isn't big enough to dominate physically in his own team's end the way a real #1 has to.

 

But what does Green do?....  He plays Hughes like a #1... he plays him for close to 30 minutes and he puts him in all the situations which would be demanded of a #1... so we see Hughes on the PK, in charge of clearing the front of the net... wrestling with forwards who are twice his size.  And big surprise... Hughes is a gamer, he tries hard, and then he gets injured wrestling with a much bigger forward in front of the net.

 

Part of this is the failure of Benning to provide Green with a player who could be a good defensive partner to Hughes.  He let Tanev go... Tanev wasn't the biggest player, (bigger than Hughes) but he had the smarts and anticipation... he knew how to use his stick and control the play net front.  Benning also didn't replace Edler with someone who could be as physical.  Everyone who got down on Alex as he aged tends to forget the work he did in front of the net... Edler was a stalwart back there and could battle with the best of them.  Nobody replaced him.  OEL is not that guy... he's skilled, but he is not a real physical presence.

 

Logically Myers should be partnered with Hughes... that way Myers can take care of the net front... but that partnership hasn't worked out for some reason... (although you would think a decent defensive coach could teach them to work together)

 

I am concerned that Hughes is being ruined as a player... that he will mistakenly start to lose confidence in himself for not being able to play the physical game... as well as getting angry at Green for putting him in these situations.

 

Hitting:

 

Everyone is talking about the lack of hitting by the Canucks... their record this season is abysmal.

 

The only person who seems to be hitting is Connor Garland... which is a complete anomaly.  Garland is one of the smaller players on the team... why is he leading the way in the physical play?   Let me make a prediction... if Garland continues to try to lead the team physically, he will be injured too.

 

So why isn't Green coaching the big guys on the team to hit and be physical???  It's true the team has gotten smaller... thanks to all the small forwards Benning has brought in and all the big forwards he has lost to waivers... but we still have few guys with size... Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Myers are examples... why isn't Green coaching his bigger guys to hit on the forecheck?

 

After all, Green's system is a dump and chase... following by a cycle... and hitting has to be part of that... you gotta have someone retrieve the puck when you dump it in... and the way you do that is by forcing the opposing D to cough up the puck... either by hitting or the threat of a hit.

 

So what's going on???  Well, what's going on is Green's laissez faire/see what happens attitude towards everything.  He doesn't have a handle on what his players are doing because he really doesn't have a system.

The other problem is, Miller, Pearson, Horvat and Myers are some of the offensive cornerstones of the team now... if you have these guys being the physical ones... then they get injured or end up in the box.  Theoretically, it is the lunch bucket guys on the team who should be doing the hitting.... problem is... the lunchbucket hitters are all missing.

 

A few years back we had a decent amount of hitting going on... it wasn't really coached... it came as part of the player package.. i.e. we paid to have guys like Beagle, Graovac and Roussel do that... but Benning messed up his CAP and decided we couldn't afford any more expensive character players.

 

And the in house developed hitters, like MacEwen, Bailey and Gadjovich all fell victim to Green's grudges... when Green doesn't like you... you aren't long for the team.

 

So what are we left with?   Unfortunately it looks like a soft team.... thanks Green's coaching and Benning's trades/waivers.

 

---

 

On a related topic... while I love John Garret for his commentary, he is a real homer and never likes to criticize the Canucks Staff.  Corey Hirsch is definitely a character, but he is also not afraid to point to where Green's system is breaking down... both in the D Zone as well as on the offense.  He's been a breath of fresh air.  Wish Green and the Assistants would have a listen to the broadcasts.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by *Buzzsaw*

[kacholu]

Green is an AHL coach. NHL is way too complex and fast for him. In his mind the game works like this "see puck...chade puck "

 

The is a grinder for life and always will be. We need coaches who can adapt and use systems to bring out the best out of players 

[Elias Pettersson]

Anyone who still uses a bag skate to evaluate players needs to go back to the AHL.

 

As far as the personnel on this team, Benning has assembled one of the better teams on paper since 2012.  It's not his fault Sutter is sick and Hamonic refused to show up.  Those are two pieces that really could have helped that we thought were coming.  

 

Most likely we waived Gadjovich and MacEwen because of Green, so we lost our only 2 tough guys because Green wanted to play his AHL fodder that obey his every command.

 

This is NOT on Benning at all.  This team with the right coach is an easy playoff team, even without Sutter and Hamonic.  The problem is the guy behind the bench.  It's so obvious even a blind mouse can figure it out.

[shiznak]

Hughes plays on the PK?

 

He has a total of 6 minutes on the PK, in his entire NHL career.

[JeremyCuddles]

I have very much soured on the coaching staff. I was sour on them last season but it's even deeper as we start this season. Management is starting to lose me as well with their handling of Lind, Gadjovich and Big Mac. Freed up all those roster spots and filled them with old vets. At least Pod made it. They aren't completely out of their minds.

 

Dowling has played 79 games in his career and is 31 years old. Are you seriously telling me Gadjovich couldn't fill that guy's role til Motter got back? Really? Does anyone truly believe Lammikko looks any better than Big Mac did? At least Big Mac was willing to beat your ass if you stepped outta line. Guy dropped the mitts with Kassian, Lammikko the kind of guy to pick Kassian's mitts up for him.

[captainhorvat]

Can’t wait for Greener to come out with a 

Pearson Petey Dowling line for next game…

[.Naslund]

How about this....our star players should show up. Petey looks way too cocky for his own good nowadays and really for no reason. Dude has been inconsistent...and this is coming from a big Petey supporter. 

[Trebreh]

1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

I have very much soured on the coaching staff. I was sour on them last season but it's even deeper as we start this season. Management is starting to lose me as well with their handling of Lind, Gadjovich and Big Mac. Freed up all those roster spots and filled them with old vets. At least Pod made it. They aren't completely out of their minds.

 

Dowling has played 79 games in his career and is 31 years old. Are you seriously telling me Gadjovich couldn't fill that guy's role til Motter got back? Really? Does anyone truly believe Lammikko looks any better than Big Mac did? At least Big Mac was willing to beat your ass if you stepped outta line. Guy dropped the mitts with Kassian, Lammikko the kind of guy to pick Kassian's mitts up for him.

Green decides who gets sent down doesnt he? 

 

If Podz didn't score in the Philly game, he's probably healthy scratched by now. even in that game he still got benched lol. 

 

I don't know why Lockwood and Gadjovich didn't make this team out of camp. They did everything possible with the limited ice time and chance they could get. Big Mac even though disappointed in camp, showed enough tangibles to stay with the team (crashes the net, hits, fights, lives rent free in Nurses head). Lockwood looked impressive in every game he played. 

 

We should've waived all the depth guys and gave the home grown prospects a chance. Let's face it, nobody is claiming Petan, Dowling, Di Giseppe off waivers.

 

Greens head scratching decisions is costing us depth. I heard from the post game that Green was criticizing the team for not hitting enough.. GEE I WONDER WHY. 

 

We lost two of three physical prospects that we have because of Green's obsession with fringe nhlers. His excuse is because he wants pkers on the 4th line. Lockwood has all the tools to play on the PK. Gadjo and MacEwen are big bodies with reach that could be useful in PK, why not team them how to pk instead of demoting them for NHL journeymen. 

 

and it's not like we have an elite PK anyways, I'm preety sure Lockwood, Gadjo and Bigmac can stand stationary in the PK like the rest of the guys anyways. 

 

 

[FaninMex]

1 hour ago, .Naslund said:

How about this....our star players should show up. Petey looks way too cocky for his own good nowadays and really for no reason. Dude has been inconsistent...and this is coming from a big Petey supporter. 

They showed up when the line mates where there. Lotto line dominated for the last 5 min of the game when they were together. 

[EddieVedder]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Where do I start?

 

Quinn Hughes:

 

Everyone knows Hughes is a rare offensive talent.  He is someone who excels in a Run and Gun offense, or as a powerplay quarterback.

 

What he isn't is a defensive ace... he is not a #1 Defenseman.  A real #1 D can do it all... both offense and defense... Hughes simply isn't big enough to dominate physically in his own team's end the way a real #1 has to.

 

But what does Green do?....  He plays Hughes like a #1... he plays him for close to 30 minutes and he puts him in all the situations which would be demanded of a #1... so we see Hughes on the PK, in charge of clearing the front of the net... wrestling with forwards who are twice his size.  And big surprise... Hughes is a gamer, he tries hard, and then he gets injured wrestling with a much bigger forward in front of the net.

 

Part of this is the failure of Benning to provide Green with a player who could be a good defensive partner to Hughes.  He let Tanev go... Tanev wasn't the biggest player, (bigger than Hughes) but he had the smarts and anticipation... he knew how to use his stick and control the play net front.  Benning also didn't replace Edler with someone who could be as physical.  Everyone who got down on Alex as he aged tends to forget the work he did in front of the net... Edler was a stalwart back there and could battle with the best of them.  Nobody replaced him.  OEL is not that guy... he's skilled, but he is not a real physical presence.

 

Logically Myers should be partnered with Hughes... that way Myers can take care of the net front... but that partnership hasn't worked out for some reason... (although you would think a decent defensive coach could teach them to work together)

 

I am concerned that Hughes is being ruined as a player... that he will mistakenly start to lose confidence in himself for not being able to play the physical game... as well as getting angry at Green for putting him in these situations.

 

Hitting:

 

Everyone is talking about the lack of hitting by the Canucks... their record this season is abysmal.

 

The only person who seems to be hitting is Connor Garland... which is a complete anomaly.  Garland is one of the smaller players on the team... why is he leading the way in the physical play?   Let me make a prediction... if Garland continues to try to lead the team physically, he will be injured too.

 

So why isn't Green coaching the big guys on the team to hit and be physical???  It's true the team has gotten smaller... thanks to all the small forwards Benning has brought in and all the big forwards he has lost to waivers... but we still have few guys with size... Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Myers are examples... why isn't Green coaching his bigger guys to hit on the forecheck?

 

After all, Green's system is a dump and chase... following by a cycle... and hitting has to be part of that... you gotta have someone retrieve the puck when you dump it in... and the way you do that is by forcing the opposing D to cough up the puck... either by hitting or the threat of a hit.

 

So what's going on???  Well, what's going on is Green's laissez faire/see what happens attitude towards everything.  He doesn't have a handle on what his players are doing because he really doesn't have a system.

The other problem is, Miller, Pearson, Horvat and Myers are some of the offensive cornerstones of the team now... if you have these guys being the physical ones... then they get injured or end up in the box.  Theoretically, it is the lunch bucket guys on the team who should be doing the hitting.... problem is... the lunchbucket hitters are all missing.

 

A few years back we had a decent amount of hitting going on... it wasn't really coached... it came as part of the player package.. i.e. we paid to have guys like Beagle, Graovac and Roussel do that... but Benning messed up his CAP and decided we couldn't afford any more expensive character players.

 

And the in house developed hitters, like MacEwen, Bailey and Gadjovich all fell victim to Green's grudges... when Green doesn't like you... you aren't long for the team.

 

So what are we left with?   Unfortunately it looks like a soft team.... thanks Green's coaching and Benning's trades/waivers.

 

---

 

On a related topic... while I love John Garret for his commentary, he is a real homer and never likes to criticize the Canucks Staff.  Corey Hirsch is definitely a character, but he is also not afraid to point to where Green's system is breaking down... both in the D Zone as well as on the offense.  He's been a breath of fresh air.  Wish Green and the Assistants would have a listen to the broadcasts.

 

 

 

 

Good post.  In agreement with a lot of this especially Hughes, lack of physicality and Greens grudges.  

[Josepho]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Anyone who still uses a bag skate to evaluate players needs to go back to the AHL.

 

As far as the personnel on this team, Benning has assembled one of the better teams on paper since 2012.  It's not his fault Sutter is sick and Hamonic refused to show up.  Those are two pieces that really could have helped that we thought were coming.  

 

Most likely we waived Gadjovich and MacEwen because of Green, so we lost our only 2 tough guys because Green wanted to play his AHL fodder that obey his every command.

 

This is NOT on Benning at all.  This team with the right coach is an easy playoff team, even without Sutter and Hamonic.  The problem is the guy behind the bench.  It's so obvious even a blind mouse can figure it out.

If a 4D (at best) and 4C derail your team's chances of making the playoffs, you're not a good team.

 

Also Benning is the one who extended Green, so that falls on him.

[EddieVedder]

2 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

I have very much soured on the coaching staff. I was sour on them last season but it's even deeper as we start this season. Management is starting to lose me as well with their handling of Lind, Gadjovich and Big Mac. Freed up all those roster spots and filled them with old vets. At least Pod made it. They aren't completely out of their minds.

 

Dowling has played 79 games in his career and is 31 years old. Are you seriously telling me Gadjovich couldn't fill that guy's role til Motter got back? Really? Does anyone truly believe Lammikko looks any better than Big Mac did? At least Big Mac was willing to beat your ass if you stepped outta line. Guy dropped the mitts with Kassian, Lammikko the kind of guy to pick Kassian's mitts up for him.

The handling of OJ, Lind, Gadj and Mac is still disturbing.   There is no excuse for throwing away homegrown talent like this in favour for what we picked up.  Something isnt right with management rn.

[EddieVedder]

1 minute ago, Josepho said:

If a 4D (at best) and 4C derail your team's chances of making the playoffs, you're not a good team.

 

Also Benning is the one who extended Green, so that falls on him.

They would help the team.  Hamonic was our most solid defender last year.  You need guys like that to win.

Sutters a gamer and brings it every game.  

 

[EddieVedder]

3 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

I have very much soured on the coaching staff. I was sour on them last season but it's even deeper as we start this season. Management is starting to lose me as well with their handling of Lind, Gadjovich and Big Mac. Freed up all those roster spots and filled them with old vets. At least Pod made it. They aren't completely out of their minds.

 

Dowling has played 79 games in his career and is 31 years old. Are you seriously telling me Gadjovich couldn't fill that guy's role til Motter got back? Really? Does anyone truly believe Lammikko looks any better than Big Mac did? At least Big Mac was willing to beat your ass if you stepped outta line. Guy dropped the mitts with Kassian, Lammikko the kind of guy to pick Kassian's mitts up for him.

Big Mac looked good when given the chance in 2019/2020.  He had spurts on Horvats wing and used his speed and size well.  No idea wtf Green was thinking last yr relegating him to the 4th line and press box. Completely shattered his confidence for no reason.

[iinatcc]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

As far as the personnel on this team, Benning has assembled one of the better teams on paper since 2012.  It's not his fault Sutter is sick and Hamonic refused to show up.  Those are two pieces that really could have helped that we thought were coming.  

 

 

Not saying these players aren't missed but losing a 4th line center and one of your top 4 d-man shouldn't make the team so bad that they can't beat Buffalo and Detroit. If the team had depth that wouldn't be an issue. Last season Kucherov was out all regular season, and Stamkos only played 1 game in the 2020 Playoffs. they are more important pieces than what the Canucks lost and still won the cup. 

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, Trebreh said:

Green decides who gets sent down doesnt he? 

 

If Podz didn't score in the Philly game, he's probably healthy scratched by now. even in that game he still got benched lol. 

 

I don't know why Lockwood and Gadjovich didn't make this team out of camp. They did everything possible with the limited ice time and chance they could get. Big Mac even though disappointed in camp, showed enough tangibles to stay with the team (crashes the net, hits, fights, lives rent free in Nurses head). Lockwood looked impressive in every game he played. 

 

We should've waived all the depth guys and gave the home grown prospects a chance. Let's face it, nobody is claiming Petan, Dowling, Di Giseppe off waivers.

 

Greens head scratching decisions is costing us depth. I heard from the post game that Green was criticizing the team for not hitting enough.. GEE I WONDER WHY. 

 

We lost two of three physical prospects that we have because of Green's obsession with fringe nhlers. His excuse is because he wants pkers on the 4th line. Lockwood has all the tools to play on the PK. Gadjo and MacEwen are big bodies with reach that could be useful in PK, why not team them how to pk instead of demoting them for NHL journeymen. 

 

and it's not like we have an elite PK anyways, I'm preety sure Lockwood, Gadjo and Bigmac can stand stationary in the PK like the rest of the guys anyways. 

 

 

This is what I'm so pissed off about. 

We lost Gadj, Juolevi and sent Lockwood to the minors in favor of vets who supposedly understand systems and are able to PK. 

Our PK looks dismal. Our D zone coverage looks like mayhem. 

Did Schenn and Hunt really do a better job than Juolevi? 

Did Lammikko do a better job than Gadj? Did Highmore do a better job than Lockwood? 

Would we have done worse than 5-2 with Juolevi, Gadj and Lockwood in the line up last night? 

I personally think Green dug his own grave by going with his choice of vets over our own prospects who showed well at camp. 

If prospects played last night, he'd probably put them in the pressbox next game but what does he do now? 

 

 

[PunjabiCanucks]

If I am Green call a time out after that 4-2 goal and yell at my players. Re sink the game- also I'm not seeing its feasible but if I'm green every player should be responsible for 1 hit a game. 

Either play the lotto line or have Miller centre his 3rd - which dowling and podkolzin looked good.

 

If Petey is playing like $&!# give Horvat Boeser on his RW.

 

If Pearson is doing nothing drop him to the 3rd

[73 Percent]

34 minutes ago, PunjabiCanucks said:

If I am Green call a time out after that 4-2 goal and yell at my players. Re sink the game- also I'm not seeing its feasible but if I'm green every player should be responsible for 1 hit a game. 

Either play the lotto line or have Miller centre his 3rd - which dowling and podkolzin looked good.

 

If Petey is playing like $&!# give Horvat Boeser on his RW.

 

If Pearson is doing nothing drop him to the 3rd

He did...

[Battlemonger]

Outcoached again. End of story. 

[Timråfan]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Anyone who still uses a bag skate to evaluate players needs to go back to the AHL.

 

As far as the personnel on this team, Benning has assembled one of the better teams on paper since 2012.  It's not his fault Sutter is sick and Hamonic refused to show up.  Those are two pieces that really could have helped that we thought were coming.  

 

Most likely we waived Gadjovich and MacEwen because of Green, so we lost our only 2 tough guys because Green wanted to play his AHL fodder that obey his every command.

 

This is NOT on Benning at all.  This team with the right coach is an easy playoff team, even without Sutter and Hamonic.  The problem is the guy behind the bench.  It's so obvious even a blind mouse can figure it out.

Green wouldn’t be coach if not Benning wants him.