How Green's coaching and Benning's trades degraded this team

[Timråfan]

8 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

He did...

The yelling is neanderthal… If you can’t motivate your players without yelling you should consider another job. 

[CanuckleHorse]

2 hours ago, Josepho said:

If a 4D (at best) and 4C derail your team's chances of making the playoffs, you're not a good team.

 

Also Benning is the one who extended Green, so that falls on him.

Travis the trickster Green been taking advantage of Benning’s kind heart from the beginning it’s sad he had to have this fraud talking in his ear for his tenure.

Edited October 20, 2021 by CanuckleHorse

[timberz21]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Anyone who still uses a bag skate to evaluate players needs to go back to the AHL.

 

As far as the personnel on this team, Benning has assembled one of the better teams on paper since 2012.  It's not his fault Sutter is sick and Hamonic refused to show up.  Those are two pieces that really could have helped that we thought were coming.  

 

Most likely we waived Gadjovich and MacEwen because of Green, so we lost our only 2 tough guys because Green wanted to play his AHL fodder that obey his every command.

 

This is NOT on Benning at all.  This team with the right coach is an easy playoff team, even without Sutter and Hamonic.  The problem is the guy behind the bench.  It's so obvious even a blind mouse can figure it out.

Kind of is, he did hire Green and re-signed 

[73 Percent]

25 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

The yelling is neanderthal… If you can’t motivate your players without yelling you should consider another job. 

Every coach in the NHL has yelled. Maybe consider watching chess.

[Timråfan]

1 minute ago, 73 Percent said:

Every coach in the NHL has yelled. Maybe consider watching chess.

Off coarse every coach in NhL has yelled. 
mostly former players go on with coaching and their father taught them this way as their father taught and so on tio we’re back at neanderthals.

Have you ever heard that a coach can change coaching style?

[IBatch]

Folks why don't we wait ten games before getting the pitchforks out?    I do agree that we can't make excuses for this team again like last season, but we can give them more games before putting the blinders on and walking into walls.    Could have easily had a 3-1 record.    We don't ... so let's see what it looks like in a couple weeks.    That was a bad game.   All teams have them.   EP looks like he should have had his camp ... that's not on TG.   BB missed time too.   Was a big fan of Gadjs and still think OJ could have a decent career too so will absolutely agree that Travis Green and Jim Benning are both on the hot seat this year.    Team can't afford a 16 game start like we had a year ago .... but they did pull it together, and claw their way back without EP before Covid scuttled their season.  

 

This group had been through a lot together, hopefully that had brought them closer together.    Playoffs or axes are coming possibly, but as far as pure rosters go, 86-89 is where the "experts" have us.   That's par for TG, less below, above he's doing better with the roster then anticipated.    Any coach we have isn't going to make us all happy.   Seems to be a favourite pass-time as fans to wonder why they didn't do this or that.   Believe Green doesn't have a long losing streak available to him this season, so he's on the hottest seat.    But we aren't there yet. 

[StanleyCupOneDay]

Benning is the result of our team on paper.

 

Green is the result of our team on the ice.

 

You can’t blame this on the GM for how we play in games. While I’m leaning more toward firing Green then I ever have Benning has created a roster that can win games and compete in the playoffs. Just look at our full uninjured lineup and tell me it’s not the best we’ve had since the Sedins. That takes time to build from scratch. He’s made mistakes like any other GM, but I’d bet you’d be hard pressed to find a move he made that crippled our team at any point during his tenure.

Take a look at what other GM’s have done in boneheaded moves. Many teams have worse GM’s than we do. Some of the things he’s done have not only been adequate, but in hindsight look like he scored big time. He’s also improved in contracts and trades since he started.
 

It feels like some people just hold onto the mistakes he made long ago and ignore everything good he did recently. I’m not saying he’s perfect, but he’s been a pretty good GM overall for us.

Edited October 20, 2021 by StanleyCupOneDay

[Maddogy]

49 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Folks why don't we wait ten games before getting the pitchforks out?    I do agree that we can't make excuses for this team again like last season, but we can give them more games before putting the blinders on and walking into walls.    Could have easily had a 3-1 record.    We don't ... so let's see what it looks like in a couple weeks.    That was a bad game.   All teams have them.   EP looks like he should have had his camp ... that's not on TG.   BB missed time too.   Was a big fan of Gadjs and still think OJ could have a decent career too so will absolutely agree that Travis Green and Jim Benning are both on the hot seat this year.    Team can't afford a 16 game start like we had a year ago .... but they did pull it together, and claw their way back without EP before Covid scuttled their season.  

 

This group had been through a lot together, hopefully that had brought them closer together.    Playoffs or axes are coming possibly, but as far as pure rosters go, 86-89 is where the "experts" have us.   That's par for TG, less below, above he's doing better with the roster then anticipated.    Any coach we have isn't going to make us all happy.   Seems to be a favourite pass-time as fans to wonder why they didn't do this or that.   Believe Green doesn't have a long losing streak available to him this season, so he's on the hottest seat.    But we aren't there yet. 

I am open to firing Green but not before they have had several practices at home. This road trip as well as the eventful training camp took away time from the coaching staff to prepare the team defensively. I have to say that if all Jason King does is to maintain the same looks for the PP from last year then he must be fired.

 

Green needs to have Miller on the wing not centre. He needs to play Podkolzin more because he is defensively responsible and has that rookie drive to go to the net. Green needs to rely less on Hoglander because he dangles a lot but fails to make effective passes and can’t shoot. Kyle Bourroughs is more reliable than Schenn and Hunt.

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

I am open to firing Green but not before they have had several practices at home. This road trip as well as the eventful training camp took away time from the coaching staff to prepare the team defensively. I have to say that if all Jason King does is to maintain the same looks for the PP from last year then he must be fired.

 

Green needs to have Miller on the wing not centre. He needs to play Podkolzin more because he is defensively responsible and has that rookie drive to go to the net. Green needs to rely less on Hoglander because he dangles a lot but fails to make effective passes and can’t shoot. Kyle Bourroughs is more reliable than Schenn and Hunt.

Green deserves 20 games.   He's helped a lot of rookies become very very rich.    And kept Pearson in the league, plus helped Miller become a very desirable UFA...Imagine how things would have gone with Torts?  Lol.  Half of them would want to leave but we'd have won a couple more games - big freaking deal.   As soon as Travis gets fired, another team will fire their coach or he will get job offers.    Is he what we need right now?  Maybe not, but he's noticed skill where skill is - allows them to play ridiculous minutes, and is arguably  the better of the two (JB or TG).    Seasons are full of ebbs and flows.   Glad most of us aren't running the club or coaching. 

 

It's funny really.   When he doesn't start a blender then he's bad.   When he changes things up then he's bad.   Unless we are winning, in that case too many just think that's the players.   Green is an NHL coach.   Sorry to point this out.  

[Josepho]

3 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

They would help the team.  Hamonic was our most solid defender last year.  You need guys like that to win.

Sutters a gamer and brings it every game.  

 

Sure, but we also just lost to Buffalo (badly) and Detroit teams missing far more important players.

[DefCon1]

5 hours ago, .Naslund said:

How about this....our star players should show up. Petey looks way too cocky for his own good nowadays and really for no reason. Dude has been inconsistent...and this is coming from a big Petey supporter. 

Its not just Petersson, ots the whole system we play and it doesnt fit any of our players. Green should be canned soon if this losing streak continues because one thing is for sure and that is the team needs to make playoffs this season. Aquaman will tell Benning to do something and I see Green being fired as the last ditch effort for this team to turn around.

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, Josepho said:

Sure, but we also just lost to Buffalo (badly) and Detroit teams missing far more important players.

Yep, thats a coaching and systems problem. When you lose badly to non playoff teams like this. Green has 20 games or so to get this team going if not, then he wont be a coach for us. He has been our coach for some time now and his time is almost up.

[DefCon1]

24 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

I am open to firing Green but not before they have had several practices at home. This road trip as well as the eventful training camp took away time from the coaching staff to prepare the team defensively. I have to say that if all Jason King does is to maintain the same looks for the PP from last year then he must be fired.

 

Green needs to have Miller on the wing not centre. He needs to play Podkolzin more because he is defensively responsible and has that rookie drive to go to the net. Green needs to rely less on Hoglander because he dangles a lot but fails to make effective passes and can’t shoot. Kyle Bourroughs is more reliable than Schenn and Hunt.

I really dont get why they hire people with not much experience to do a job like Jason King. When internally we had Malhotra who was excellent but let go. Benning loves to let the talents go and replace them with lesser talents. Malhotra, Tanev, Toffoli etc. 

[Darius]

My biggest gripe with the coaching staff, and this goes back further than this year, is the passive defensive system they seem to play.

 

At first I thought "maybe its the players that are not equipped to win puck battles or play physically in the dzone".  But we have basically swapped out all the D, other than Myers, and the D still looks the same,

 

As soon as the other team gets puck possession in our end all 5 guys seemingly collapse into a box and basically hand over the perimeter of the D zone to the other team.  They have all the time in the world to move the puck around.  Even Hirsch (love him or hate him i think he is honest) called it out last night - the other team is given way too much time and space.

 

I suspect they think they can eliminate high percentage /danger plays by playing in this configuration by allowing a bunch of perimeter shots that a NHL goalie can stop - its why we are seemingly always outshot. 

 

And the first unit powerplay - everyone knows they are setting up petey for the shot.  the other team knows if you pressure EP to the wall or put pressure on hughes they will likely lose the puck.  You have miller making low percentage decisions.  Change it up maybe? Put 2 dmen on the point, put EP in the slot?  What they are doing doesnt seem to work and you would expect a good coach to adjust.

 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

9 hours ago, CanuckleHorse said:

Travis the trickster Green been taking advantage of Benning’s kind heart from the beginning it’s sad he had to have this fraud talking in his ear for his tenure.

Might be on the something cause at this point, it seems JB has chosen to attach his legacy with Green - this offseason he doubled down by signing him to an extension & gave him a different roster (at a high cost in futures & cap); and still the on ice product  looks the same as in previous years.

Edited October 20, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Hairy Kneel]

Green has bluffed his way to a longer than necessary NHL career. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 hours ago, Josepho said:

If a 4D (at best) and 4C derail your team's chances of making the playoffs, you're not a good team.

 

Also Benning is the one who extended Green, so that falls on him.

It's Gillis' fault!  He was the guy that hired him in the first place to be the head coach of our AHL affiliate back in 2013.

 

It' always goes back to Gillis!

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Green deserves 20 games.   He's helped a lot of rookies become very very rich.    And kept Pearson in the league, plus helped Miller become a very desirable UFA...Imagine how things would have gone with Torts?  Lol.  Half of them would want to leave but we'd have won a couple more games - big freaking deal.   As soon as Travis gets fired, another team will fire their coach or he will get job offers.    Is he what we need right now?  Maybe not, but he's noticed skill where skill is - allows them to play ridiculous minutes, and is arguably  the better of the two (JB or TG).    Seasons are full of ebbs and flows.   Glad most of us aren't running the club or coaching. 

 

It's funny really.   When he doesn't start a blender then he's bad.   When he changes things up then he's bad.   Unless we are winning, in that case too many just think that's the players.   Green is an NHL coach.   Sorry to point this out.  

He's also got rid of promising young guys instead of the useless AHL trash like Hunt, and continued to employ an incompetent clown in Baumgartner.  His ability to identify skill is severity lacking and is a major reason for our struggles.  Enough with the plug love.

[Wolfgang Durst]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Anyone who still uses a bag skate to evaluate players needs to go back to the AHL.

 

As far as the personnel on this team, Benning has assembled one of the better teams on paper since 2012.  It's not his fault Sutter is sick and Hamonic refused to show up.  Those are two pieces that really could have helped that we thought were coming.  

 

Most likely we waived Gadjovich and MacEwen because of Green, so we lost our only 2 tough guys because Green wanted to play his AHL fodder that obey his every command.

 

This is NOT on Benning at all.  This team with the right coach is an easy playoff team, even without Sutter and Hamonic.  The problem is the guy behind the bench.  It's so obvious even a blind mouse can figure it out.

It's all on Benning because he hasn't fired Green yet. Benning should have noticed that Green ran out of ideas how to fix this team. Countless times in post game interviews Travis said last season: "we have to play better". Tonight after the loss in Buffalo again: "we have to play better". Interestingly I can't see any positive development compared to last season.  Green is done. Benning hasn't even realized that Green is done. It's ALL on BENNING.

1. PP :         the same crap like last season.

2. Defense: the same crap like last season.

3. team structure / lines: the same crap like last season; Chiasson on the 1st line - 3 games later in the press box. - Podkolzin on the 4 th line, the next night on the top line. WTF.

 

Buffalo should be a wake up call for everyone ; the owner Aquillini , Jim Benning, Travis Green , the fans , the media. This franchise needs CHANGE!! Change begins with new personnel, beginning from the top all the way down to the team.

 

Question to you Man: Do you seriously think that Olli Juolevi has been evalutated solely ! on the bag skate? Look at last season: Travis decided to play Jordie Benn at the 3rd pairing and Juolevi has not even been on the roster. The truth is many ! people even within the Canucks org have been wrong about Juolevi's talent. He has been less talented than many people thought. Canucks have been very patient with Juolevi. They have shown the same patience with Jake Virtanen and Nikolay Goldobin.

 

This will be another ! very ugly season. It's time to take action.

[bree2]

8 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Where do I start?

 

Quinn Hughes:

 

Everyone knows Hughes is a rare offensive talent.  He is someone who excels in a Run and Gun offense, or as a powerplay quarterback.

 

What he isn't is a defensive ace... he is not a #1 Defenseman.  A real #1 D can do it all... both offense and defense... Hughes simply isn't big enough to dominate physically in his own team's end the way a real #1 has to.

 

But what does Green do?....  He plays Hughes like a #1... he plays him for close to 30 minutes and he puts him in all the situations which would be demanded of a #1... so we see Hughes on the PK, in charge of clearing the front of the net... wrestling with forwards who are twice his size.  And big surprise... Hughes is a gamer, he tries hard, and then he gets injured wrestling with a much bigger forward in front of the net.

 

Part of this is the failure of Benning to provide Green with a player who could be a good defensive partner to Hughes.  He let Tanev go... Tanev wasn't the biggest player, (bigger than Hughes) but he had the smarts and anticipation... he knew how to use his stick and control the play net front.  Benning also didn't replace Edler with someone who could be as physical.  Everyone who got down on Alex as he aged tends to forget the work he did in front of the net... Edler was a stalwart back there and could battle with the best of them.  Nobody replaced him.  OEL is not that guy... he's skilled, but he is not a real physical presence.

 

Logically Myers should be partnered with Hughes... that way Myers can take care of the net front... but that partnership hasn't worked out for some reason... (although you would think a decent defensive coach could teach them to work together)

 

I am concerned that Hughes is being ruined as a player... that he will mistakenly start to lose confidence in himself for not being able to play the physical game... as well as getting angry at Green for putting him in these situations.

 

Hitting:

 

Everyone is talking about the lack of hitting by the Canucks... their record this season is abysmal.

 

The only person who seems to be hitting is Connor Garland... which is a complete anomaly.  Garland is one of the smaller players on the team... why is he leading the way in the physical play?   Let me make a prediction... if Garland continues to try to lead the team physically, he will be injured too.

 

So why isn't Green coaching the big guys on the team to hit and be physical???  It's true the team has gotten smaller... thanks to all the small forwards Benning has brought in and all the big forwards he has lost to waivers... but we still have few guys with size... Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Myers are examples... why isn't Green coaching his bigger guys to hit on the forecheck?

 

After all, Green's system is a dump and chase... following by a cycle... and hitting has to be part of that... you gotta have someone retrieve the puck when you dump it in... and the way you do that is by forcing the opposing D to cough up the puck... either by hitting or the threat of a hit.

 

So what's going on???  Well, what's going on is Green's laissez faire/see what happens attitude towards everything.  He doesn't have a handle on what his players are doing because he really doesn't have a system.

The other problem is, Miller, Pearson, Horvat and Myers are some of the offensive cornerstones of the team now... if you have these guys being the physical ones... then they get injured or end up in the box.  Theoretically, it is the lunch bucket guys on the team who should be doing the hitting.... problem is... the lunchbucket hitters are all missing.

 

A few years back we had a decent amount of hitting going on... it wasn't really coached... it came as part of the player package.. i.e. we paid to have guys like Beagle, Graovac and Roussel do that... but Benning messed up his CAP and decided we couldn't afford any more expensive character players.

 

And the in house developed hitters, like MacEwen, Bailey and Gadjovich all fell victim to Green's grudges... when Green doesn't like you... you aren't long for the team.

 

So what are we left with?   Unfortunately it looks like a soft team.... thanks Green's coaching and Benning's trades/waivers.

 

---

 

On a related topic... while I love John Garret for his commentary, he is a real homer and never likes to criticize the Canucks Staff.  Corey Hirsch is definitely a character, but he is also not afraid to point to where Green's system is breaking down... both in the D Zone as well as on the offense.  He's been a breath of fresh air.  Wish Green and the Assistants would have a listen to the broadcasts.

 

 

 

 

wow! its so nice to know that  you know more than the GM and the coaches and how to run this team. we have played a few games and some of you are whining already.