Dave Chappelle backlash

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don't remember him saying that. I'll have to go back and see.

its one of the things I appreciate about him, not his stance on it, but that he's willing to be honest and put it out there.

[Jester13]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

because Dave literally says he's transphobic. He describes himself that way.

He was being facetious. 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

He was being facetious. 

how do you know that?

[Jester13]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

how do you know that?

Because of context.

 

He's not a transphobe and doesn't hate trans people, or not support them. He's critiquing the hypocrisy of those within the community who call him such and claim that he's always punching down, when he clearly is not, and then they'll go and do exactly what they say he's doing but towards other groups of people that simply think differently than they do.

 

Dave envisions a world where we can all come together and laugh at each other, and with each other, and right now there's a large portion of the left/LGBT/woke community that does not do that but rather cries foul at every turn and tries to ruin people's lives simply because they're offended at what someone says, when they should instead attempt to hear other's words and messages and intentions behind them before being so offended and calling for their cancellation. What he's critiquing is exactly how people are reacting after his special: they're missing his message and instead proving his point. I'm betting the same people crying foul didn't even watch it to the very end to hear the ultimate message/punchline. 

[JM_]

33 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Because of context.

 

He's not a transphobe and doesn't hate trans people, or not support them. He's critiquing the hypocrisy of those within the community who call him such and claim that he's always punching down, when he clearly is not, and then they'll go and do exactly what they say he's doing but towards other groups of people that simply think differently than they do.

 

Dave envisions a world where we can all come together and laugh at each other, and with each other, and right now there's a large portion of the left/LGBT/woke community that does not do that but rather cries foul at every turn and tries to ruin people's lives simply because they're offended at what someone says, when they should instead attempt to hear other's words and messages and intentions behind them before being so offended and calling for their cancellation. What he's critiquing is exactly how people are reacting after his special: they're missing his message and instead proving his point. I'm betting the same people crying foul didn't even watch it to the very end to hear the ultimate message/punchline. 

I think you could be reading what you want to into his routine. I take him at this word, I think he's being honest when he says 'team terf' and being trans-phobic. 

 

The message I got was even when you have those biases you look for common ground, not that Dave's a perfect person. 

[Jester13]

36 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I think you could be reading what you want to into his routine. I take him at this word, I think he's being honest when he says 'team terf' and being trans-phobic. 

 

The message I got was even when you have those biases you look for common ground, not that Dave's a perfect person. 

We can't forget the ever important fact that Dave's a comedian and making jokes. This is also why his specials are so, well, special, is because he's reminding people that merely making jokes does not equate to being a bad person and being hateful. It's why he's targeting certain aspects of the LGBT community, because they shouldn't expect they're off limits to humour simply because of their feelings, yet everything else is fair game that they can freely laugh at. That is the epitome of hypocrisy. 

[JM_]

Just now, Jester13 said:

We can't forget the ever important fact that Dave's a comedian and making jokes. This is also why his specials are so, well, special, is because he's reminding people that merely making jokes does not equate to being a bad person and being hateful. It's why he's targeting certain aspects of the LGBT community, because they shouldn't expect they're off limits to humour simply because of their feelings, yet everything else is fair game that they can freely laugh at. That is the epitome of hypocrisy. 

I do think he's using his own experience and of infantilization of black people in the US who have had groups speak for them into how he's crafted his show. All the non-trans outraged cancelly folks might also be doing a lot of harm by not allowing them the same right to be made fun of as everyone else. It takes something away from their humanity when you treat them that way. Its been a "progressive" problem for a long time. Thats the message I'm getting from Dave's show anyway. 

[Jester13]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I do think he's using his own experience and of infantilization of black people in the US who have had groups speak for them into how he's crafted his show. All the non-trans outraged cancelly folks might also be doing a lot of harm by not allowing them the same right to be made fun of as everyone else. It takes something away from their humanity when you treat them that way. Its been a "progressive" problem for a long time. Thats the message I'm getting from Dave's show anyway. 

The left can't handle anything that goes against their ideology, which is exactly how the right acts. The middle ground centrist point of view is to allow people to have their own opinions and speak freely, as this is the basis for democracy, and this is how we come together to live and learn and progress. But even deeper to the heart of the issue: the left isn't used to receiving criticism, as the left didn't use to be so radical with callout/cancel culture. But now they are, and now they're getting rightful criticism for being a detriment to free speech. It's too bad that free speech is now synonymous with being a conservative, as it's far from being so. 

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

The left can't handle anything that goes against their ideology, which is exactly how the right acts. The middle ground centrist point of view is to allow people to have their own opinions and speak freely, as this is the basis for democracy, and this is how we come together to live and learn and progress. But even deeper to the heart of the issue: the left isn't used to receiving criticism, as the left didn't use to be so radical with callout/cancel culture. But now they are, and now they're getting rightful criticism for being a detriment to free speech. It's too bad that free speech is now synonymous with being a conservative, as it's far from being so. 

I consider myself solidly liberal politically, but something has happened over the last decade or so and I just don't see myself in what's termed "progressive politics" now. The further left you go the more puritanical it gets. 

[Gurn]

The far left and far right as so far out there; they can now shake hands.

Then there are those that are stuck in the middle

 

 

[Jester13]

9 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I consider myself solidly liberal politically, but something has happened over the last decade or so and I just don't see myself in what's termed "progressive politics" now. The further left you go the more puritanical it gets. 

100% cannot agree more. There are many academics who are equating the left woke culture as resembling a new religion, where people are getting cancelled/excommunicated for simply saying something deemed offensive: "One strike and you're out!" There are doctrines based in Foucault and Derida, social gatherings in protests, and more similarities. And it truly is a detriment to democracy in the same way that the far right is, in that it is a threat on free speech and difference. The left wants a pluralistic society, but only if you're the same as them. 

 

@gurn they're so alike because the spectrum is actually a circle and they're touching tips

Edited October 22, 2021 by Jester13

[JM_]

15 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

100% cannot agree more. There are many academics who are equating the left woke culture as resembling a new religion, where people are getting cancelled/excommunicated for simply saying something deemed offensive: "One strike and you're out!" There are doctrines based in Foucault and Derida, social gatherings in protests, and more similarities. And it truly is a detriment to democracy in the same way that the far right is, in that it is a threat on free speech and difference. The left wants a pluralistic society, but only if you're the same as them. 

 

thats why I don't think we should rush to shut down cancel culture people when they're speaking, people should listen. Most people won't recognize themselves in it, and it will diminish in its power. I think it already is, because Dave's show is still on Netflix. 

[Jester13]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

thats why I don't think we should rush to shut down cancel culture people when they're speaking, people should listen. Most people won't recognize themselves in it, and it will diminish in its power. I think it already is, because Dave's show is still on Netflix. 

I mean, I also agree with this, in that it's not a matter of trying to cancel cancel culture, but shedding light onto it so that those falling to it in society can, in fact, see themselves in it and learn to be more emotionally intelligent and centered. 

 

This is why we need comedy and free speech, as it's arguably the most influential medium to change. It used to be that "poets are the unacknowledged  legislatures of the world", but these days it's Dave Chappelle

[bishopshodan]

Just a comment on the idea that Dave is transphobic, as @JM_ mentioned.

 

I interpreted it like Eminem saying "I am whatever you say I am" and, if memory serves, it was as he was jumping back and forth into old stories. He mentioned that he used to say stuff that he has now learned that was wrong.

Similar to him pointing out that white people are the ones that should be offended now by him, if anyone. I don't think Dave is racist but his humour presents himself as such. Really, to me, he is just pointing out the inequality that still exists between races. 

 

Love that you pointed out his statements on empathy Jim. Without it (you know I often babble about this)  there is no real communication. 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Just a comment on the idea that Dave is transphobic, as @JM_ mentioned.

 

I interpreted it like Eminem saying "I am whatever you say I am" and, if memory serves, it was as he was jumping back and forth into old stories. He mentioned that he used to say stuff that he has now learned that was wrong.

Similar to him pointing out that white people are the ones that should be offended now by him, if anyone. I don't think Dave is racist but his humour presents himself as such. Really, to me, he is just pointing out the inequality that still exists between races. 

 

Love that you pointed out his statements on empathy Jim. Without it (you know I often babble about this)  there is no real communication. 

I think thats his main message with the end part of his show.

[Sharpshooter]

7 hours ago, JM_ said:

I think you could be reading what you want to into his routine. I take him at this word, I think he's being honest when he says 'team terf' and being trans-phobic. 

 

The message I got was even when you have those biases you look for common ground, not that Dave's a perfect person. 

Taking comedians doing a bit at their word? 

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

17 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Because of context.

 

He's not a transphobe and doesn't hate trans people, or not support them. He's critiquing the hypocrisy of those within the community who call him such and claim that he's always punching down, when he clearly is not, and then they'll go and do exactly what they say he's doing but towards other groups of people that simply think differently than they do.

 

Dave envisions a world where we can all come together and laugh at each other, and with each other, and right now there's a large portion of the left/LGBT/woke community that does not do that but rather cries foul at every turn and tries to ruin people's lives simply because they're offended at what someone says, when they should instead attempt to hear other's words and messages and intentions behind them before being so offended and calling for their cancellation. What he's critiquing is exactly how people are reacting after his special: they're missing his message and instead proving his point. I'm betting the same people crying foul didn't even watch it to the very end to hear the ultimate message/punchline. 

I really dislike people who use the term woke to describe people. 

I find that people who use that term in the context you have are using it to demean others.

 

How about I give you a label ?

Would you like that ?

 

I don't believe you would so I will not do it.

 

Hows this for a radical idea,we are all one community,a community of human beings. 

 A community that encompasses many different views and beliefs.

As long as those views and beliefs don't impact others in a negative manner what right does anyone have to attack/critisise or withhold the rights from any other member of our community.

 

Are you a member of a section of our community like the LGBT that you mentioned ?

A section of our community that has suffered persecution simply for being who they are. 

If you are you might understand why some of them are pretty pissed.

I am not myself yet I totally understand why parts of our community are upset and pissed off because of the treatment they have received from other sections of our community,in many cases for centuries.

 

 

What it boils down to is do you or anyone else who is familiar with Dave believe he treats others the way he wishes to be treated himself.

 

I believe he does.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Ilunga

[Industrious1]

I see one label thrown around quite a bit on this forum (especially in the cut-throat covid thread).

 

Anti-Vax.  Blanket term used to describe everyone from the religious, to First Nations, to the medically exempt, to those that are simply confused or hesitant.  The spectrum is actually much more complicated than that but that term is freely used to describe and denigrate a certain portion of the population, even painting entire Provinces with the same brush when convenient or just for a laugh.  

 

Such a term can invoke attacks even by bringing it up and is resulting in the loss of rights for a minority of people.  Even mentioning it in a light that doesn't fit the narrative will most likely result in some negativity. 

 

 

[JM_]

11 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Taking comedians doing a bit at their word? 

 

 

 

 

 

it makes his message more effective if you take his act at its word.

 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Industrious1 said:

I see one label thrown around quite a bit on this forum (especially in the cut-throat covid thread).

 

Anti-Vax.  Blanket term used to describe everyone from the religious, to First Nations, to the medically exempt, to those that are simply confused or hesitant.  The spectrum is actually much more complicated than that but that term is freely used to describe and denigrate a certain portion of the population, even painting entire Provinces with the same brush when convenient or just for a laugh.  

 

Such a term can invoke attacks even by bringing it up and is resulting in the loss of rights for a minority of people.  Even mentioning it in a light that doesn't fit the narrative will most likely result in some negativity. 

 

 

anti-vaxxers aren't a recognized minority. Lets not derail this thread, its a good one so far.