Serious question about perceived negativity around this team

[MeanSeanBean]

Morning all!

 

First things first, this isn't a shame thread or a holier than thou rant. I intend this to be a legitimate dialogue based off what I have noticed this year on Canucks socials and even on this forum. I could be totally in the wrong, a complete homer, and that clouds my judgement a little (wouldn't be the first time, cough Jake Virtanen cough). But I feel like based off how this season has gone so far, people tend to be overly negative about the start, that I just don't see.

 

Elephant in the room, Benning in my opinion has made some major mistakes recently. I don't want this thread to become a Benning bashing corner based off past mistakes, though I do understand that some of the negativity around the team goes hand in hand with Bennings past faults. I do recognize his faults though, and both Gadjovich and Juolevi were major miss plays, in my opinion.

 

But this team just went 3-2-1 on a 6 game road trip to start the season, with multiple season openers. In my opinion that was an outstanding start to the season. Furthermore we did that without 2/3 of our 4th line, a top 4 D, all 3 being our best penalty killers, a few games without our best winger, and let's be honest did it all without our 'best player' being our best player. This team is finding a way to win games that we shouldn't really be winning. Once we start rolling this team has all the potential in the world.

 

I guess my question is this, and I would love to talk to people who don't see eye to eye with me. Is the current makeup of the organization, Travis, Jim, the players, really not good enough in the current day? Or are people just upset over the multiple mistakes made over the years and just fed up. Because I look at this offseason as a net win, brining in Garland, OEL, and making some other good moves. This team looks better to me right now that it has in many years and I honestly think we are trending in the right direction. 

 

(I apologize for spelling errors, I have dyslexia and often have to edit my posts multiple times to iron out all my oversights when I write something, and will do so over the day)

[therodigy]

I'm a bit of a homer myself. I think the Vancouver market is incredibly passionate and were left with a sour taste in their mouths after a forgettable season, especially after a relatively successful postseason during the bubble playoffs. Perhaps that is why there is a tremendous amount of sky is falling posts when they lose to the worst team in the league last year, or when Dowling finds himself in the top 6, or Podkolzin is scratched in favour of 10 minutes of Chiasson. It may even be fair to say that this team has boasted so many years of mediocrity that any indication that the team is failing, valid or not, will create uproar. Living in Toronto, this is a pretty fairly common occurrence with the Maple Leafs organization... so many arm chair GMs exclaiming that Spezza should be captain over the overpaid Tavares, or Marner's lack of production crippling their team's ability to have any sort of impact on the standings, or the fact they they just got spanked by half the Penguins team last night... it's a young season and I'm sure that no matter how well the Canucks do, there will always be criticism because they want their team to do well for a change.

[Crabcakes]

Fair comment.  Are you new?  

 

Big changes this year.  Huge turnover.  It's going to take longer than most teams to find their stride

 

Major mistakes?  Gadjovich, yes.  But he didn't protect him in the expansion draft.  Who saw a player with 1 NHL game getting plucked?  Well, it happened.  He should have waited until the last day to waive him.

 

Juolevi was protected in expansion over Edler and Hamonic but his camp was indifferent.  This was a year for Juolevi to have what they call a good summer and win the 3C.  His fitness was meh.  This was not the first time he has shown up thinking he's in.  Now he's out.  Benning traded him for a 4C (Lammikko) who is ok but there's no telling when Sutter is back (maybe never) so it needed to be done.  Also a RHD project (former first rounder Noah Juulson).  I'm not going to miss Juolevi tbh.

 

Benning made a fabulous trade, getting rid of dead cap and adding 2 good players for the price of a 1st and 3rd.  Grand Larceny. 

 

Let's talk glass half full.  

 

The Canucks are going to be much better this year but make no mistake, there is still work to do.  Mainly in the bottom 6 and on D

 

Of the 7 pieces deemed necessary to win championships, the Canucks have 6 for sure

 

1C  Pettersson 

2C  Horvat

Sniper  Boeser

1D  Hughes

2D  OEL

Goalie Demko

 

Only OEL is on the older side

 

 

 

 

[AV.]

When you go multiple seasons without playoffs, patience will run thin.
When you go all in with your assets, expectations will be raised.

So far, things have been decent.  Probably lucky to escape with a win last night, maybe a bit unlucky and unprepared not to beat Detroit or Buffalo.  Regardless, the mood and expectation is that this team will make playoffs, hence, every night that doesn't result in a win will render criticism.  Fans don't want to hear excuses or elaborate explanations for why they should be happy, why things aren't bad, etc.  Everything that needs to happen on the ice, needs to happen on the ice.

[Master Mind]

I still don't think our defense is good enough, even with Hamonic.

 

There are several new players, and the hope is Shaw will help with the system.

 

So far the Canucks have been painful to watch in their own zone, just like in previous years.

 

There is still time to correct this of course, but until that happens, I'll temper my expectations.

[joe-max]

A part of it is probably this general phenomenon that - thanks to social media and a media landscape that relies on range and not on quality - an angry minority gets more attention than it deserves, while a large, content majority stays in the background.

 

If you look at this forum, you will find the same handful of posters that invade almost every thread to constantly repeat the same arguments over and over again. Benning sucks, system sucks, drop pass sucks, fire Green, Aquilini sucks blahblah. One may get the impression that the fanbase as a whole is negative, but I believe (and hope) it is merely a comparatively small number, but one that KEEPS SHOUTING!

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by joe-max

[48MPHSlapShot]

Multiple poor seasons will sour a fanbase, regardless of the context. Sometimes the criticism isn't fair, sometimes it is. But regardless, it's to be expected when the team consistently fails to make the playoffs.

 

Percieved mistakes are more heavily scrutinized as well, especially if they indicate some sort of trend. Losing Gadj for nothing absolutely sucks, but I reckon the fanbase wouldn't be nearly as sour about it if a) The team and current management group had more success to their name, and b) If Benning didn't already have a reputation as a poor asset manager.

 

I'm not sour about the Juolevi trade though. His lack of mobility and injury woes were always going to keep him from meeting anything resembling his initial expectations, plus we needed a 4C with Sutter out and some RHD depth.

 

As far as the season thus far goes, it almost looks as though the team is off to a decent start in spite of itself. It doesn't help when your supposed star forwards aren't playing like stars, but there are multiple holes in the team's game, in particular on special teams, are easily identifiable and thus should be correctable, and yet we've failed to do so thus far. Then there's player deployment. Seeing plugs getting ice time and even PP time over players should be able to contribute more, seeing our top 10 draft pick sitting in the press box instead of being given the chance to improve his game either on the main club or in Abby. It doesn't paint a good picture.

 

This home stand will tell us a lot about this team. If some of the more glaring issues aren't fixed and the team doesn't start passing the eye test, the fanbase will become even more vocal in their distain.

 

 

[FaninMex]

I like Benning. 

Green was good in the bubble but last season and this season, I dunno, I have just been seeing some things that I do not get. We did get a 3-2-1 record with Pettersson not really producing. So, more worries from last year that have Green on my not so sure list.

Not making the playoffs previous to the bubble did not worry me as I saw that we were rebuilding and I enjoyed watching the process. I liked reading the posts of how the prospects were developing.

[-DLC-]

For me, it's kind of mind boggling in a simple concept of:  life is what you make it.  We don't have to subject ourselves to something that makes us miserable.

 

If I was not enjoying something and it was painful and out of my control but I could opt out, I would.  I wouldn't bother anymore.  Even if to take a time out and go refuel with some positive things.  I often have to do that here....leave when the angry mob of naysayers takes over.  I could stay and engage (and have/used to a lot more).  But I hop on my bike or fire up some loud music and work out or do chores and it disconnects me from that negativity. 

 

We all have options.  Sure, it's a discussion board and all opinions are welcome...it makes it more interesting to have different takes that aren't all "rah rah rah".  But if the negative crap is the ONLY thing some are contributing, it becomes more about them to me than their point.  They're stuck. 

 

We watch hockey as a leisure time activity and enjoyment.  If you're not getting that out of the team it's up to you to change that.  Not to change the team because, well, you can't (except to choose a new one).

 

It gets draining when it's the same old narrative and nothing is ever worth celebrating.  Wins are good.

 

When I hear the reason (valid, yes) of multiple losing seasons  and lack of success it's not just about that.  The ultimate goal is to win the cup but ONE team does and the other 30+ don't.  So it's also about enjoying each game for what it is.  I've had to really shift to this and it's much more pleasant to disengage from the losses and be able to move past them.  82 games and we're six in?  

 

Having been a fan of the team for a lonnng time, it could be so much worse (and has been).  This is a young, exciting team and we have plenty of reasons to be positive.  If we choose to be.  At some point, you have to face forward and not dwell on the past...especially when new players/personnel arrive.  It's unfair to gauge them on teams of the past because they're not connected to that history.  Yet we somehow pile that on as if they are.  Sure, some management/coaching staff wear that but they, too, have to be considered for what they ARE doing as well as what they aren't.  It's dynamic, not static.

[-DLC-]

And to add to that wall of text ^.   I think sometimes people lose sight of the human element in all of this.  ALL humans make mistakes and it's actually how we can learn as we move forward and past them.  Benning and company aren't infallible.....we've certainly witnessed that first hand.  But they seem to be adjusting and that matters.

 

When you're hiring "employees", sometimes based on an unproven work history, it's a gamble.  It doesn't always work out on paper how you'd hoped.  And we see one side of things but not the other side - the one where negotiating with players and other teams isn't just a matter of making a TO DO list and things get done.  We rely on the decisions of the other parties and that may involve some compromise and not getting exactly what we want.

 

It's more complex than Benning/Green/Petey/etc. good/bad.  So much so.....but, for some, they've whittled it down to that.

[Alflives]

This ^

And ... How can a fan not be super excited about what Benning did over the summer?  OEL is clearly a top D man.  (Now with Quinn we have two of those guys!). Poolman is a fantastic compliment to Hughes.  Myers can play a role now.  Garland is clearly a top line winger.  He’s kind of a rat too, which is something we needed in our skilled players.  

We have depth in our lines to better balance the scoring.  Considering the young guys (and mature guys too) we already had, we are looking like a deep and very good club.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by Alflives

[-AJ-]

I suspect the two main reasons would be:

 

1. Higher expectations. This year, this team is expected to at least be very close to the playoffs.

 

2. Much recent losing. 2019-20 was very fun, but outside of that, it's been a while since our team has been good and I think fans are very ready to be done with being a non-playoff team and are running out of patience.

 

I think these above things make fans overall less patient and quicker to give knee-jerk reactions to various things.

[JM_]

I see a lot of the negativity being driven by our local media, and its a very disproportionate voice. Small number, big megaphone.

 

Guys like Dhaliwal, e.g. while occasionally being useful in breaking a story, also do things like give air time to things like the Benning protestors, or guys like Andrew Walker who just bash the city ad naseum. Many of the old TSN 1040 crowd, Ferarro, etc. all love to bash the city and fanbase and team.

 

And then there's "Canucks twitter" whoever the hell they are.

 

But it doesn't represent most of us, not even close.

 

Take that away, and we're pretty average. We're not even unique in rioting.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I see a lot of the negativity being driven by our local media, and its a very disproportionate voice. Small number, big megaphone.

 

Guys like Dhaliwal, e.g. while occasionally being useful in breaking a story, also do things like give air time to things like the Benning protestors, or guys like Andrew Walker who just bash the city ad naseum. Many of the old TSN 1040 crowd, Ferarro, etc. all love to bash the city and fanbase and team.

 

And then there's "Canucks twitter" whoever the hell they are.

 

But it doesn't represent most of us, not even close.

 

Take that away, and we're pretty average. We're not even unique in rioting.

 I find it insulting on a Canuck’s fan board, when other teams’ fans come here and write very negative things about our youngest players and prospects, while saying their teams’ young guys and prospects are better.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

 I find it insulting on a Canuck’s fan board, when other teams’ fans come here and write very negative things about our youngest players and prospects, while saying their teams’ young guys and prospects are better.  

we must root them out, and mock them

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 I find it insulting on a Canuck’s fan board, when other teams’ fans come here and write very negative things about our youngest players and prospects, while saying their teams’ young guys and prospects are better.  

I have a hard time with that stuff too, Alf.  That's usually when I have to go hop on my bike and crank up G & R to drown it all out.  THE NERVE!

[-DLC-]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

we must root them out, and mock them

Alf's leading the charge!  Doing a fine job.

[Angry Goose]

27 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

I still don't think our defense is good enough, even with Hamonic.

 

There are several new players, and the hope is Shaw will help with the system.

 

So far the Canucks have been painful to watch in their own zone, just like in previous years.

 

There is still time to correct this of course, but until that happens, I'll temper my expectations.

Definitely a work in progress but I was encouraged to see a few plays where the team cut off the cycle and break out was clean-no turnovers.  The defensive scheme requires a lot of athleticism and good execution to create turnovers/transition out.  Hopefully it keeps improving. 
 

OP you should see the conversation on #canucks Twitter. Some people have such a personal disliking for JB that results don’t really matter. They just want personal vendettas re affirmed and would rather see the team do poorly. 
 

IMO, the team has definitely improved. I see a few areas where tweaks could/maybe be made.  So as far as roster construction goes it’ll be interesting moving forward 

[Noble 6]

A lot of people take this way too seriously. The Canucks really shouldn't ruin or make your day except for a handful of times during the regular season and the Playoffs if they get there. 

 

There's a difference between keeping up with every little detail of the organization and investing in every little detail of the organization. For example, losing Gadjovich and MacEwan on waivers sucks, but that's hardly anything to tear down the organization for. If Pettersson or Hughes were traded in a bad deal, that would be different. 

 

No matter what happens, we are just the people sitting at home watching some people actually do something. We should not have our pride and ego hurt so often by something we're not directly involved in. 

[MeanSeanBean]

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I see a lot of the negativity being driven by our local media, and its a very disproportionate voice. Small number, big megaphone.

 

Guys like Dhaliwal, e.g. while occasionally being useful in breaking a story, also do things like give air time to things like the Benning protestors, or guys like Andrew Walker who just bash the city ad naseum. Many of the old TSN 1040 crowd, Ferarro, etc. all love to bash the city and fanbase and team.

 

And then there's "Canucks twitter" whoever the hell they are.

 

But it doesn't represent most of us, not even close.

 

Take that away, and we're pretty average. We're not even unique in rioting.

Ok, this. The reason why I made this thread was my experience in the GDT last night. In my opinion, we were clearly the better team for 3/4 of that first period. We dominated possession and could have had the lead.

 

Travis got caught leaving the 4th line out on a faceoff, which was probably a bad call. The 4th line took a penality, which shouldn't have happened because they should have been on the bench. PK did their job, but got caught on the ice after and for scored on. Bummer, but it was a good goal by them and they were pushing hard. But the 4-5 pages on the GDT were real rough after that goal.

 

Not just "ah crap" posts, people calling for Green/Bennings head, people saying they "hated the team", just really rough posts after 1 goal. I get the game gets heated and peoples emotions are high, but that seems like an overreaction for a goal, when we had been winning that majority of the first period. Again, this is just my opinion but that just seemed like a big reaction to 1 goal, and it went on for pages and pages.

 

What I see is a young team, who has won more periods of hockey then the have lost, and are exiting a really tough 6 game road start with a winning record. But I feel as if the fans are still in a generally foul mood about the team, instead of feeling positive. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong though, I'm just seeking clarity right now.