[Report] Joel Quenneville resigns as Panthers head coach, Andrew Brunette named interim head coach

[Kevin Biestra]

9 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

A 2 million fine and an undefined “have to meet with me to be reinstated into league jobs” along with being allowed to resign (which is probably actually a legal move by all parties designed to hurt Beach’s court case) is just not even close to good enough.

 

How do you see Quenneville resigning as hurting Beach's court case?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Kevin Biestra

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

How do you see Quenneville resigning as hurting Beach's court case?

Being allowed to resign rather than be fired is a way to limit their admission of actual guilt which Beach’s lawyers could use in his court case. It’s clearly an attempt by the NHL, the Blackhawks, and the individual people involved to reduce their legal liability. Notice almost all of their resignation statements attempt to minimize their direct involvement. Bowman saying he didn’t expect his superiors to not address the issue. Q saying others failed him but he accepts his role in that is a bit closer to an admission of guilt but not much legally.

 

Every one of them is attempting to minimize their culpability including Bettman. That is mainly because of the lawsuit IMO.

[Highstickin]

12 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Was Kyle Beach really one of "his" players though?  Beach was an AHL'er during the 2010 cup run was he not?   

 

Agreed that Quennville is an awful human being, but my guess is that Quenville would have acted very differently had it been one of his main roster players.   

 

My guess is that JQ considered the Beach situation a distraction since Beach was "just an AHL player."    

 

 

 

Beach was on the ice working with NHL staff as a black ace, so I would argue that yes he was one of Quennville's players. Either way though, even if he didn't have the time of day for "just an AHL player" this was his direct employee that committed a crime. If you can't take that serious no matter what else is going on than you don't deserve to lead a team. 

[wallstreetamigo]

12 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Was Kyle Beach really one of "his" players though?  Beach was an AHL'er during the 2010 cup run was he not?   

 

Agreed that Quennville is an awful human being, but my guess is that Quenville would have acted very differently had it been one of his main roster players.   

 

My guess is that JQ considered the Beach situation a distraction since Beach was "just an AHL player."    

 

 

 

You are probably right about what Q thought. Unfortunately Beach was “his player” and it still makes him a douche who willingly failed one of his players.

 

The fact the Q likely thought this makes him even more despicable.

[Highstickin]

41 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This is exactly true. When you can plainly see that the “punishment” actually is really just designed to be a bare minimum to protect their brand image and keep public perception on their side rather than to actually punish, that’s as big a part of the problem here as anything else. It’s why this kind of stuff could even happen in the first place.

 

A 2 million fine and an undefined “have to meet with me to be reinstated into league jobs” along with being allowed to resign (which is probably actually a legal move by all parties designed to hurt Beach’s court case) is just not even close to good enough.

I would have loved to see all those involved in covering this up fired (rather than allowed to resign) just as much as the next person but I wonder about Florida's ability to fire Quenville based on something that happened previous to his employment with the team. I don't know all the ins and outs of employee contracts but if you hire someone and then find out later they have skeletons in the closet that you didn't find in your hiring process, I don't know that those are grounds for termination. If he had directly committed a crime than yes but technically he didn't. Had he still been employed by the blackhawks, I think they could have fired him for not staying within company policy on harassment/assault. 

 

This leads into allowing Bowman and McIssac to resign. It would have been nice to see the organization force the issue once the investigation was complete as opposed to allowing them to walk away.  

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, Highstickin said:

I would have loved to see all those involved in covering this up fired (rather than allowed to resign) just as much as the next person but I wonder about Florida's ability to fire Quenville based on something that happened previous to his employment with the team. I don't know all the ins and outs of employee contracts but if you hire someone and then find out later they have skeletons in the closet that you didn't find in your hiring process, I don't know that those are grounds for termination. If he had directly committed a crime than yes but technically he didn't. Had he still been employed by the blackhawks, I think they could have fired him for not staying within company policy on harassment/assault. 

 

This leads into allowing Bowman and McIssac to resign. It would have been nice to see the organization force the issue once the investigation was complete as opposed to allowing them to walk away.  

It is possible that letting them resign impacts severance pay too that they would get if they got fired. There could be valid reasons as you say. But since none of that has been publicly reported, I am betting all left with a nice financial package and if that eventually comes to light the motivation then seems crystal clear.

[Patel Bure]

22 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

You are probably right about what Q thought. Unfortunately Beach was “his player” and it still makes him a douche who willingly failed one of his players.

 

The fact the Q likely thought this makes him even more despicable.

Trust me, you’re preaching to the choir.  I completely agree.  My post that you quoted received a few ‘rough game’ and ‘wut’ responses but those aren’t my thoughts.  Those are my estimation of what was going through JQ’s selfish mind.

 

@Highstickin

Edited October 29, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Coconuts]

11 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Man i'm still so on the fence about this and I feel horrible for it.

 

As a human being Quennville refusing to address this after the allegations surfaced and suggesting the sport and pursuit of a cup were more important is unfathomable.  It's honestly just an utter crap thing to do to the players you're supposed to lead and help grow.

 

But....

 

He's the 2nd winningest coach in history.  His major crime is his view of hockey over investigation and refusing to take it seriously.  Watching tonights game, if he makes actual efforts to grow as a human and start taking his player's mental health and overall safety seriously; I'd still accept him as a coach in a season or two because he's a damned winner and everything he builds succeeds lately.  He's got that Bowman/Burns touch behind the bench and as disgusting as I feel I want a damned cup.

 

I mean, ya know.  He's terrible and will never be looked at as anything but a guy who ignored a very serious allegation of assault, he put his career over his players safety and that's unacceptable.

 

But....

Usually I agree with your takes, and I respect your right to think differently, but this one I can't. 

 

I don't see how any team that values character could hire him, and character has come up over and over again over the years in regards to who we draft. One can say this or that about our historical success as a franchise, but we've had some fantastic individuals come through and make their mark. Linden, the Sedin's, Naslund, Gino, Quinn, Burke, and on and on.. 

 

Can't get on board with it, and I'll be shocked if he coaches in this league again.

[Patel Bure]

13 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Was Kyle Beach really one of "his" players though?  Beach was an AHL'er during the 2010 cup run was he not?   

 

Agreed that Quennville is an awful human being, but my guess is that Quenville would have acted very differently had it been one of his main roster players.   

 

My guess is that JQ considered the Beach situation a distraction since Beach was "just an AHL player."    

 

 

 

@GB5 @canuck73_3

 

You guys realize that this isn’t *my* way of thinking right?  I was estimating as to what was going through JQ’s mind at the time and so I hope you took that into consideration before giving me those ‘roughgame’ and ‘wut’ reactions.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Ballisticsports.]

40 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

I would have loved to see all those involved in covering this up fired (rather than allowed to resign) just as much as the next person but I wonder about Florida's ability to fire Quenville based on something that happened previous to his employment with the team. I don't know all the ins and outs of employee contracts but if you hire someone and then find out later they have skeletons in the closet that you didn't find in your hiring process, I don't know that those are grounds for termination. If he had directly committed a crime than yes but technically he didn't. Had he still been employed by the blackhawks, I think they could have fired him for not staying within company policy on harassment/assault. 

 

This leads into allowing Bowman and McIssac to resign. It would have been nice to see the organization force the issue once the investigation was complete as opposed to allowing them to walk away.  

Florida just showed how they want to have a Team of class

They have a unbeaten record at this point and don't want it tarnished or it's players thinking they condone this 

They showed the team is important as a whole

[canuck73_3]

33 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

@GB5 @canuck73_3

 

You guys realize that this isn’t *my* way of thinking right?  I was estimating as to what was going through JQ’s mind at the time and so I hope you took that into consideration before giving me those ‘roughgame’ and ‘wut’ reactions.

Makes more sense now that you explained it but if that is how Q thought he deserves what he’s getting now. 

[Highstickin]

11 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Man i'm still so on the fence about this and I feel horrible for it.

 

As a human being Quennville refusing to address this after the allegations surfaced and suggesting the sport and pursuit of a cup were more important is unfathomable.  It's honestly just an utter crap thing to do to the players you're supposed to lead and help grow.

 

But....

 

He's the 2nd winningest coach in history.  His major crime is his view of hockey over investigation and refusing to take it seriously.  Watching tonights game, if he makes actual efforts to grow as a human and start taking his player's mental health and overall safety seriously; I'd still accept him as a coach in a season or two because he's a damned winner and everything he builds succeeds lately.  He's got that Bowman/Burns touch behind the bench and as disgusting as I feel I want a damned cup.

 

I mean, ya know.  He's terrible and will never be looked at as anything but a guy who ignored a very serious allegation of assault, he put his career over his players safety and that's unacceptable.

 

But....

I like to believe I am the type of person that gives second chances. In business, I think when people make a mistake it is an opportunity to learn, grow and be better from it. If we just fire everyone who makes mistakes, we will just hire someone that will potentially make the same mistake in the future and we will have gone backwards. 

 

That being said, in this case there has been very little recognition by Quenville that he made a mistake and when he has given us anything it was 11 years after the mistake was made and only because a victim came forward. I have no confidence he has or will change and until he can demonstrate that he doesn't deserve to be in the NHL or coaching at all. His past history of W and L has nothing to do with trying to change the culture of hockey. If we allow this person, who denied knowing anything about the assault a day before he was forced to resign, to stay in the league because he is good at what he does, than we do a disservice to anyone that learns from him or forms an understanding that you can do what you want as long as you win. 

[canuck73_3]

18 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Florida just showed how they want to have a Team of class

They have a unbeaten record at this point and don't want it tarnished or it's players thinking they condone this 

They showed the team is important as a whole

If they had a team of class he would not have coached the Boston game. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

13 hours ago, rekker said:

I get that. But he's owned his mistake. We all make them, and he's owned his.  

 

13 hours ago, rekker said:

He owns his share of it, and said the Hawks let this kid down. That's pretty complicit isn't it? That involves pretty much everyone.

Now this may come as unpopular and it is in no way meant to disrespect what is going on, BUT you are exactly right. Even if a decade went by, even if JQ's day was status quo until his meeting with Betman at the end of the day he publically released a statement acknowledging he played a part in this entire process that lead to and brushed off Kyle Beach's abuse, he owns his share in what happened ( he is not going to get into details and has to look at what he says legally right now as anyone in this situation would ). He even stated he will be educating himself on this and reflect on what he actually did in this whole thing.

 

Now this doesn't mean high fives all round for coach Q, no but he has re-signed his job in the NHL, he has owned what he has done publically and the legal part and moving on in life will come along.

 

He may very well be done professionally as a coach and should legal proceedings go a certain way he could be removed from being eligible to coach etc be in a position of power over others.

 

I guess and again this is not to minimize what happened or disregard the entirety of this but at a certain point it is almost ridiculous to see people not even accepting or acknowledging what he stated, no sympathy for him at all, but in this process to heal or correct things and move forward you need to also acknowledge when these things are said and not just brush it off and say " not buying it " or " was forced to resign should have been fired " etc...what else do you want he is essentially gone and out of the picture now.

[King Heffy]

44 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Florida just showed how they want to have a Team of class

They have a unbeaten record at this point and don't want it tarnished or it's players thinking they condone this 

They showed the team is important as a whole

Notice that Bettman didn't release anything absolving Quenneville like he did for Chevy.  Their hand was forced, after they chose to let him coach against Boston instead of doing what Calgary did with Peters.

 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

10 hours ago, GB5 said:

He has denied the allegations all along. The truth finally came to light from the investigation that he was aware of the situation and this fact could no longer be denied.

So to resign once pushed into a corner is not a real man in my books. He could have and should have come clean years ago.

 

This man is a coward.

This. Anyone who tries to argue that he has learned his lesson and become a better person is simply wrong. He's only sorry because he got caught. I'm disgusted every time I see some one on this forum suggesting we fire Green and hire this crapbag. Jokes or not, those people need to give their head a shake.

[johngould21]

32 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

I like to believe I am the type of person that gives second chances. In business, I think when people make a mistake it is an opportunity to learn, grow and be better from it. If we just fire everyone who makes mistakes, we will just hire someone that will potentially make the same mistake in the future and we will have gone backwards. 

 

That being said, in this case there has been very little recognition by Quenville that he made a mistake and when he has given us anything it was 11 years after the mistake was made and only because a victim came forward. I have no confidence he has or will change and until he can demonstrate that he doesn't deserve to be in the NHL or coaching at all. His past history of W and L has nothing to do with trying to change the culture of hockey. If we allow this person, who denied knowing anything about the assault a day before he was forced to resign, to stay in the league because he is good at what he does, than we do a disservice to anyone that learns from him or forms an understanding that you can do what you want as long as you win. 

This, he was hoping beyond hope that this would wash under the bridge.

[rekker]

23 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

Now this may come as unpopular and it is in no way meant to disrespect what is going on, BUT you are exactly right. Even if a decade went by, even if JQ's day was status quo until his meeting with Betman at the end of the day he publically released a statement acknowledging he played a part in this entire process that lead to and brushed off Kyle Beach's abuse, he owns his share in what happened ( he is not going to get into details and has to look at what he says legally right now as anyone in this situation would ). He even stated he will be educating himself on this and reflect on what he actually did in this whole thing.

 

Now this doesn't mean high fives all round for coach Q, no but he has re-signed his job in the NHL, he has owned what he has done publically and the legal part and moving on in life will come along.

 

He may very well be done professionally as a coach and should legal proceedings go a certain way he could be removed from being eligible to coach etc be in a position of power over others.

 

I guess and again this is not to minimize what happened or disregard the entirety of this but at a certain point it is almost ridiculous to see people not even accepting or acknowledging what he stated, no sympathy for him at all, but in this process to heal or correct things and move forward you need to also acknowledge when these things are said and not just brush it off and say " not buying it " or " was forced to resign should have been fired " etc...what else do you want he is essentially gone and out of the picture now.

Very well said and I wish I could have said it as eloquently. By no means does this admonish him and he has paid with his job, monies from the job, hall of fame out the window. He deserves at least these punishments and has accepted them. He owned it, maybe too little to late, but he still owned it. We all make mistakes  everyone. But not enough people own their mistakes and that was the point I was trying to make. It's old school as most people nowadays simply pass the buck and blame. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

20 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

This. Anyone who tries to argue that he has learned his lesson and become a better person is simply wrong. He's only sorry because he got caught. I'm disgusted every time I see some one on this forum suggesting we fire Green and hire this crapbag. Jokes or not, those people need to give their head a shake.

I hope nobody is suggesting this, he himself said he needs to educate himself on what happened and reflect on what he did. That also does not make him a better person only makes it apparent he is publically acknowledging this now and that he played a part and needs to learn from it.

[MeanSeanBean]

16 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I hope nobody is suggesting this, he himself said he needs to educate himself on what happened and reflect on what he did. That also does not make him a better person only makes it apparent he is publically acknowledging this now and that he played a part and needs to learn from it.

Already seen it a couple times in different threads suggesting we let Green go.