Our Plight for Wright

[Warhawk]

In the last 7 years total we as a team only have 20 more points than the Buffalo Sabres.  Their fans friggin' wear bags on their heads and Their management openly tanks for top prospects 

 

If we want to be realistic we would want to scout the 5th - 9th rated prospect anyways because this team also has no luck whatsoever and we always get shafted in the lottery.  

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Warhawk

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Maybe, this whole trajectory thus far is reminiscent of Frankie Corrado.  So was Juolevi.

Corrado  was a fifth round pick that looked good in a few NHL playoff games which caused people to overrate him.  Joulevi was overrated purely by him being a high 1st round pick.  Joulevi NHL achievements include staying healthy for a week or having a few good shifts in a preseason game for us.  

Edited November 1, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

It’s a bit strange nowadays. We’ve only played 8 games and people react as if we played 38.

 

The bit against Green is that the players that should have Greens system in their backbone play worse than the new guys wich is a bit contradictive

I’m just baffled as to how flat and weak we’ve looked.  I’ve also been confused as to some of Green’s decisions (ie his treatment of Podkolzin and Garland, his inflexibility, his lack of creativity and predictable offense, etc.).

 

 

 

 

[Provost]

2 hours ago, Warhawk said:

In the last 7 years total we as a team only have 20 more points than the Buffalo Sabres.  Their fans friggin' wear bags on their heads and Their management openly tanks for top prospects 

 

If we want to be realistic we would want to scout the 5th - 9th rated prospect anyways because this team also has no luck whatsoever and we always get shafted in the lottery.  

 

 

Not tanking doesn’t mean we will win.

 

I cringe when people here try to prop up our team by making fun of Buffalo, Detroit, Calgary, or even the “Shana-plan”…. Our team has been one of the worst for Benning’s entire tenure.  No GM with his kind of winning record keeps their job.

 

To me, we should be firing Benning if we aren’t in a playoff spot by the end of November… and then having the new guy assess Green over the next while and likely bring in his own coaching staff not too long after.

 

 

[JM_]

I don't care what the "models" said, many made their predictions not knowing what OEL and Garland would be like here. And not one of those smart asses picked St. Louis to win the cup.

 

But, if this is to be another year like the ones that preceded it, I guess another high pick is nice. But hardly consolation for another down year.

 

Things clearly are not working. We don't need to hunt for an asshole or play revisionist history, sometimes the mix doesn't work, and coaching changes are cap neutral.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Not tanking doesn’t mean we will win.

 

I cringe when people here try to prop up our team by making fun of Buffalo, Detroit, Calgary, or even the “Shana-plan”…. Our team has been one of the worst for Benning’s entire tenure.  No GM with his kind of winning record keeps their job.

 

To me, we should be firing Benning if we aren’t in a playoff spot by the end of November… and then having the new guy assess Green over the next while and likely bring in his own coaching staff not too long after.

 

 

A couple of things:

 

1) Rebuilds are common in pro sports.  
2) You can’t keep pretending that the 2020 playoffs didn’t occur because it doesn’t suit your narrative.  Whether you like it or not, the Canucks did come within a game of making the 3rd round.

 

Let us compare our last 7 years with the mid 90’s:

 

1996 = 1st round loss / 2015: = 1st round loss

1997 = DNQ / 2016 = DNQ 

1998 = DNQ / 2017 = DNQ

1999 = DNQ / 2018 = DNQ

2000 = DNQ / 2019 = DNQ

2001 = 1st round loss / 2020 = 2nd round loss

2002 = 1st round loss / 2021 = DNQ

 

Rebuilds take time.  Go look at the histories of teams like Colorado, Tampa, Carolina, Florida, NYI, Chicago, etc., etc. (basically, any team outside of Boston) and then report back to this thread.

 

Having said that, I do agree with you that heads will need to roll if the Canucks miss the playoffs this year.

 

I also believe that a coaching change is sorely needed.  I would bring in Claude Julien if it was up to me.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Patel Bure

[spook007]

17 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

A couple of things:

 

1) Rebuilds are common in pro sports.  
2) You can’t keep pretending that the 2020 playoffs didn’t occur because it doesn’t suit your narrative.  Whether you like it or not, the Canucks did come within a game of making the 3rd round.

 

Let us compare our last 7 years with the mid 90’s:

 

1996 = 1st round loss / 2015: = 1st round loss

1997 = DNQ / 2016 = DNQ 

1998 = DNQ / 2017 = DNQ

1999 = DNQ / 2018 = DNQ

2000 = DNQ / 2019 = DNQ

2001 = 1st round loss / 2020 = 2nd round loss

2002 = 1st round loss / 2021 = DNQ

 

Rebuilds take time.  Go look at the histories of teams like Colorado, Tampa, Carolina, Florida, NYI, Chicago, etc., etc. (basically, any team outside of Boston) and then report back to this thread.

 

Having said that, I do agree with you that heads will need to roll if the Canucks miss the playoffs this year.

 

I also believe that a coaching change is sorely needed.  I would bring in Claude Julien if it was up to me.

Yes to everything bar Julien...

[spook007]

Lets wait to game 20... if there is no improvement Green will be history. He has to show improvement not or it over... no matter how his system may work or not. Can't waste more time with this core. Its becoming an embarrashment...,

Hopefully they start to steady the ship, starting with Rangers tomorrow. 

[Provost]

42 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

A couple of things:

 

1) Rebuilds are common in pro sports.  
2) You can’t keep pretending that the 2020 playoffs didn’t occur because it doesn’t suit your narrative.  Whether you like it or not, the Canucks did come within a game of making the 3rd round.

Sorry, you can’t call it a rebuild when there isn’t any improvement from the start to now.  We started with a mediocre bubble team of aging veterans and a bare prospect pool.  Almost a decade later, we have turned that into a bottom of the barrel team with some really great younger pieces with another bare prospect pool.

 

2020 was an anomaly, as much as people want to completely discount last year’s results because of Covid… we can equally discount those playoffs because it was only because of Covid and the way the league did the play in format that we even made it.

 

We were utterly dominated in a lot of games those playoffs and rode an incredibly hot goaltender for most of it.  Demko’s performance was an outlier, no goalie can keep up those numbers.

 

It amazes me that people are happy to completely ignore objective results year after year.  Our team has been horrible.  Hockey folks outside the market think our team is bad, and the organization dysfunctional.

 

We don’t get to throw stones at other teams who are better.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Sorry, you can’t call it a rebuild when there isn’t any improvement from the start to now.  We started with a mediocre bubble team of aging veterans and a bare prospect pool.  Almost a decade later, we have turned that into a bottom of the barrel team with some really great younger pieces with another bare prospect pool.

 

2020 was an anomaly, as much as people want to completely discount last year’s results because of Covid… we can equally discount those playoffs because it was only because of Covid and the way the league did the play in format that we even made it.

 

We were utterly dominated in a lot of games those playoffs and rode an incredibly hot goaltender for most of it.  Demko’s performance was an outlier, no goalie can keep up those numbers.

 

It amazes me that people are happy to completely ignore objective results year after year.  Our team has been horrible.  Hockey folks outside the market think our team is bad, and the organization dysfunctional.

 

We don’t get to throw stones at other teams who are better.

1) With the exception of last season, the Canucks have trended upwards almost every year points wise since 2016.  Progression is not always a linear thing.  Go to nhl.com and look at our “upward moving average of Point total percentages” since 2016.

 

2) http://mcubed.net/nhl/vgk/van.shtml:  We were utterly dominated in most of our losses to Vegas but why are you conveniently ignoring the fact that we utterly dominated them in two of our wins in that series?  We won Game 2 by a score of 5-2, and we won Game 6 by a score of 4-0.  Perhaps in your mind, Markstrom and Demko scored all of those goals, but this is not what happened.

 

3) As far as the Covid season went, we had to qualify for the playoffs just like everyone else (beating Minnesota), which we then followed up by defeating the defending Stanley Cup champions in the 1st round.  Now - did we get lucky qualifying for the play-ins?  Maybe......maybe not.  We had been losing a lot of games prior to the Covid stoppage, but we also won our last 2 of 3 games over to 2nd round calibre teams (NYI and Colorado).  In those games, the Canucks were playing much tighter and Demko looked like he had acclimated to the #1 goalie position?  Still think it’s luck?  Well - sometimes, teams put themselves in a position to be lucky......just as we did when we absolutely dominated January 2020.

 

If you want to take a stance that you are being “factual,” you’re not doing the greatest job with respect.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Patel Bure

[stawns]

11 hours ago, Provost said:

10% of the season down, we are in last place in the Pacific, and 28th in the league.

 

I really hope no one is on tank nation this year.  

 

We have made moves to be better right away, and getting a high pick won’t offset the downside of another year of losing and ensuring no free agents want to sign with us.

 

Due to cap issues, this is pretty much the team we are going to have for years… aside from some tinkering around the edges a little.

 

We had better get our act together!  No white knights are coming in the save the day.

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2022-nhl-draft/player-profiles/Shane-Wright

they're one point out of a wild card spot.

[Patel Bure]

Just now, stawns said:

they're one point out of a wild card spot.

Agreed with this but to Provost’s point, we are NOT playing good hockey right now.  It might be a slump but this homestand has been quite disturbing for me.  I blame Green’s lack of creativity and decision making.  Why he benched both Garland and Podkolzin for large stretches is beyond me.  Why he keeps rolling out the same deadbeat predictable power play and offense is beyond me.

 

Miller-Horvat-Garland should be our top line right now.  They are our three best forwards right now and we need Atleast one line that can produce.  So why not try it?  But Green is too stubborn.

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Agreed with this but to Provost’s point, we are NOT playing good hockey right now.  It might be a slump but this homestand has been quite disturbing for me.  I blame Green’s lack of creativity and decision making.  Why he benched both Garland and Podkolzin for large stretches is beyond me.  Why he keeps rolling out the same deadbeat predictable power play and offense is beyond me.

 

Miller-Horvat-Garland should be our top line right now.  They are our three best forwards right now and we need Atleast one line that can produce.  So why not try it?  But Green is too stubborn.

I agree about his roster decisions and ice time allocaton.  Petey, Miller and Boes should have been stapled to the bench and the pp1 broken up.  However, the fact of the matter is, they are one point out of a wild card spot, 9 games into the season, people need to chill out.

[BCNate]

I have to think that if the Canucks don't win 3 of the next 4, Green will be on a very hot seat.  If we come out of this 7 game home stand 2-5, with a 5-7-1 record and 3 of the next 4 against Vegas/Colorado, things could change up pretty quick.  

 

I am still confident in this group, we have a ton of really nice pieces, but I do not think Greens style of play works for this team.  We have elite talent up front, but rarely, if ever do we try to make plays crossing the blueline down the middle.  All we do is dump it in.  Painful to watch, as we don't have heavy forecheckers.  We struggle to get possession and then just give it right back.  I'm not even going to touch on the PP or PK.

 

If Green can't adapt, I have a hard time seeing him here in December.  

 

I do think with the right coach, this group could find success, but something needs to give.

[combover]

Need not worry after the trade deadline when we could off load vertans and pending ufas  but don’t we will go a  winning streak to make sure we draft no better than 10th 

then  lose those ufas for nothing. 
 

then sign some over priced veterans ufas 

make trades for even older over paid veterans 

lose all the nhl ready prospects in Favour of crapy new veterans. 
wonder where it all went wrong 

(excuses) 

 

rinse repeat. 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

16 minutes ago, stawns said:

I agree about his roster decisions and ice time allocaton.  Petey, Miller and Boes should have been stapled to the bench and the pp1 broken up.  However, the fact of the matter is, they are one point out of a wild card spot, 9 games into the season, people need to chill out.

It is technically a slump for now, but let me ask you an honest question:    

 

Based on the games that we've seen so far this season, have you been impressed by what we've seen?    Last minute goals, getting off to slow starts, regularly being outshot and out chanced 5-5.   Granted, it's early, but this lacklustre play is a cause for concern in my opinion.  If you don't mind me asking, what was about it Podkolzin and Garland's play that makes you agree with Green's ice time allocation?  

 

This even goes back to last season with how Green chose to deploy Nate Schmidt.  Look at how Schmidt is performing in Winnipeg.  

Edited November 1, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Gawdzukes]

6 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Dahlen, Forsling, Bonino.

 

Dahlen is looking like a serious player, and I remember the "not allowed to criticize the Canucks" types turning on a dime when we traded him - nah he'll never be anything, he just takes for granted he'll play with Pettersson, him being around will be bad for Pettersson, etc.

No matter whether he had potential or not Dahlen behaved like an utter goof. The only move was to trade his immature ass. Won't be the first time and won't be the last time some kid decides he's hot $&!# and only really figures it out later on a different team. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Gawdzukes

[ABNucksfan]

[stawns]

11 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

It is technically a slump for now, but let me ask you an honest question:    

 

Based on the games that we've seen so far this season, have you been impressed by what we've seen?    Last minute goals, getting off to slow starts, regularly being outshot and out chanced 5-5.   Granted, it's early, but this lacklustre play is a cause for concern in my opinion.  If you don't mind me asking, what was about it Podkolzin and Garland's play that makes you agree with Green's ice time allocation?  

 

This even goes back to last season with how Green chose to deploy Nate Schmidt.  Look at how Schmidt is performing in Winnipeg.  

I care about what the win/loss column looks like.  No doubt they aren't playing great, but we can lay a lot of that at the feet of 3 players, in particular, who are relied on to be top offensive guys byt spend almost the entire game in their own end.

 

There's been a few stinkers in there, but there were also some good, textbook road games in there as well.  The game on Saturday was disappointing, but also encouraging because they showed some life and battled pretty well, it was a good game to watch.  

 

I think people underestimate what not having Hamonic, Sutter and Motte means as well.  Those three missing from the roster has a major ripple effect and hopefully we get MOtte and Hamonic back soon.

[AV.]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

A couple of things:

 

1) Rebuilds are common in pro sports.  
2) You can’t keep pretending that the 2020 playoffs didn’t occur because it doesn’t suit your narrative.  Whether you like it or not, the Canucks did come within a game of making the 3rd round.

 

Let us compare our last 7 years with the mid 90’s:

 

1996 = 1st round loss / 2015: = 1st round loss

1997 = DNQ / 2016 = DNQ 

1998 = DNQ / 2017 = DNQ

1999 = DNQ / 2018 = DNQ

2000 = DNQ / 2019 = DNQ

2001 = 1st round loss / 2020 = 2nd round loss

2002 = 1st round loss / 2021 = DNQ

 

Rebuilds take time.  Go look at the histories of teams like Colorado, Tampa, Carolina, Florida, NYI, Chicago, etc., etc. (basically, any team outside of Boston) and then report back to this thread.

 

Having said that, I do agree with you that heads will need to roll if the Canucks miss the playoffs this year.

 

I also believe that a coaching change is sorely needed.  I would bring in Claude Julien if it was up to me.

These comparisons don't work because in the mid-90s, coaches and general management were being fired and were held accountable for bad performances.

And if we've been rebuilding, we've done a pretty awful job since we aren't any better in 2021 than we were in 2014.

Edited November 1, 2021 by AV.