How did we descend into the bottom basement so fast, after all the changes this off season?

[RU SERIOUS]

With over 1/10th of our games already in the books, we've already descended into the bowels of the league standings at 28th (likely 29th by tonight), which is something we don't normally see until seasons end - every year.   

 

What do you believe has caused such a rapid descent into the bottom of the basement so early on this season, rather than in past years where we slowly descend there, after all the changes in the off-season, touted by JB as being "the beginning of a new era" and what do you think can be done to reverse this before the season is completely lost again?

Edited November 1, 2021 by RU SERIOUS
typo correction

[Kevin Biestra]

Hey the good news is we didn't descend to the basement, we just stayed there from last year.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Kevin Biestra

[Drakrami]

looking at a top 5 pick right about now (again). 

[iinatcc]

24 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

With over 1/10th of our games already in the books, we've already descended into the bowels of the league standings at 28th (likely 29th by tomorrow night), which is something we don't normally see until seasons end - every year.   

 

What do you believe has caused such a rapid descent into the bottom of the basement so early on this season, rather than in past years

Firstly I think many of us here were a bit too over confident about the changes being made during the offseason. Yes it was good that Benning got rid all those bad contracts and replaced the players with OEL and Garland but the question is was that enough to make the team better? 

 

I think most of us were living in a Canuck Bubble thinking the offseason moves were enough to make the team a competitive or playoff team that we didn't take into account the moves other teams were making (we didn't take into consideration that San Jose and LA's young players are going to take another step). As well as many of us here had inflated expectations of Podkolzin (many of us here were already predicting him to be a Top 6 forward in his Rookie season with the NHL) and then there's Tucker Poolman and he hasn't been a liability but it's not like he's going to change the fortunes of a team. 

 

Our inflated expectations created by living in a Canucks bubble didn't let us realize that the Canucks just aren't that good. There were many hockey analysts and experts from the media also having doubts on what the Canucks were doing, so there were warning signs, we just didn't listen to them.

 

24 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

where we slowly descend there, after all the changes in the off-season, touted by JB as being "the beginning of a new era" and what do you think can be done to reverse this before the season is completely lost again?

 

 

Nothing really there are only 4 possible outcomes we will see in the foreseeable future

1. The Canucks pick it up and actually become good 
2. The Canucks stay bad and because Benning has no more assets or cap room to maneuver around we just have to endure this for another season
3. Benning trades more of the Canucks assets (i.e draft picks, prospects) to try to stop the bleeding. 
4. Green is fired mid-season 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by iinatcc

[73 Percent]

Because of the change we didn't make.

[Hairy Kneel]

We needed Hamonic to start the season. Poolman Booker get injured 

2 contract holdouts, rushing Bones.

Losing depth toughness (Green's call).

Pearson Hogs Miller Brock drying up

Special teams are bad.

Bad coaching on top of all that.

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

injuries ALREADY

 

remember back like 15 years ago when fire takahashi was a thing? things havent gotten any better after ALL these years with that guy as a "strength and conditioning coach"

[Nuxfanabroad]

Small samp sz. No worries - we're monsters.

[iinatcc]

2 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Small samp sz. No worries - we're monsters.

Canucks have played 10% of the regular season game (if my math is correct). 10% is not a small sample size 

 

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Canucks have played 10% of the regular season game (if my math is correct). 10% is not a small sample size 

 

Not a big one either.   This start is a lot better then last years as far as actual games go (results yet to see) ... took 16 games to see a turn around.    No Hamonic and still icing too many AHLers /fringe guys in the bottom six bottom pairings.   Like to see what the team can do with Hamonic back for a couple games.    Losing by one goal most losses .... and is who's fault is it really EP hasn't got going yet? 

[IBatch]

Oh yeah, and to answer the OP, win more games then lose by maybe 10 to finish the season. 

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Not a big one either.   This start is a lot better then last years as far as actual games go (results yet to see) ... took 16 games to see a turn around.    No Hamonic and still icing too many AHLers /fringe guys in the bottom six bottom pairings.   Like to see what the team can do with Hamonic back for a couple games.    Losing by one goal most losses .... and is who's fault is it really EP hasn't got going yet? 

I mean last year didn't get any results either 

 

But you are right it's not a small sample size but not a big one either but 10% is still a point to start worrying since you can also ready see a trend at the 10% mark for anything.

 

The Canucks could turn things around like how The Ducks seemed to have done in the past. I remember there was a period when the Ducks would be average the first half or so of the season but then just turn things around mid season. Problem is The Canucks' right now aren't The Ducks during that time. 

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I mean last year didn't get any results either 

 

But you are right it's not a small sample size but not a big one either but 10% is still a point to start worrying since you can also ready see a trend at the 10% mark for anything.

 

The Canucks could turn things around like how The Ducks seemed to have done in the past. I remember there was a period when the Ducks would be average the first half or so of the season but then just turn things around mid season. Problem is The Canucks' right now aren't The Ducks during that time. 

Watched enough hockey to see great teams come out of the gate, suck and turn it around and bad teams win a bunch at the start and over an entire season end up well bad again.   The late Sedin teams did the latter all the time.  Good starts, then the wheels fell off and we ended up with a top five pick etc.    It still is worrisome.   But at least we aren't getting blown out, and our D is actually doing better then i expected given who's actually playing.   Or at par anyways.   Why we aren't scoring isn't too tough to understand - EP isn't going yet, and our bottom six is running without Sutter/Motte.    Those two guys added would really help, form a better top nine mostly.   Still get the no excuses dialogue.   But also feel maybe expectations are too high still. 

[DrJockitch]

They will rally and move up to around the 12th pick by end of season. The squishy middle is where this team looks destined. 
Not good enough to compete, not bad enough for a top pick. 
The Canadian team formula. 

[Warhawk]

It is early still but yeah not looking good.  Questionable coaching for sure but Petey needs to be better, he sat out and missed camp and that's on him.  Unacceptable.  No 22 year old should be able to sit out just to squeeze a few extra hundred thousand out of a club.  

[MaxVerstappen33]

Game of inches. It will even out. We aren't this bad. Doesn't meant we shouldn't get rid of our dollar store coach 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

With over 1/10th of our games already in the books, we've already descended into the bowels of the league standings at 28th (likely 29th by tomorrow night), which is something we don't normally see until seasons end - every year.   

 

What do you believe has caused such a rapid descent into the bottom of the basement so early on this season, rather than in past years where we slowly descend there, after all the changes in the off-season, touted by JB as being "the beginning of a new era" and what do you think can be done to reverse this before the season is completely lost again?

Can we still blame Gillis?

 

But really, we haven’t even played 10 games yet.  Every team is tied for first (or last) before game 1 of the season.  Even Bill LaForge got I think 15 games.

[whcanuck]

On SN650, they keep reiterating that American Thanksgiving is the point where the team will truly be evaluated internally. The “it’s not good enough, but it’s still only 9 games in” mentality. While I understand that thought process and businesses do typically run that way, if a change needs to be made now, for heaven’s sake make it now.

The Blackhawks fired Denis Savard early in the 2008-09 season, only 4 games in. The team then went on to make the playoffs and made it all the way to the conference final. The next year they went all the way.

I think the thought is, “let’s not do anything impulsive or rash.” I’d agree if it was Green’s 2nd year, it’s year 5! This is supposed to be a year where the Canucks move the needle and progress. They’re still spinning their wheels and look like the Canucks of 3 years ago.

Why wait until game 20-25 when the season could already be lost? If a change needs to happen to turn this thing around, make the change! There’s still time & it’s not too late. But it might be too late in 3 weeks.

[Chris12345]

Need more time. No one wants to hear it.

 

They aren't this bad just like the Flames aren't this good.

 

People on here are also overly biased.  The Canucks have a bad defense. People won't accept it.

 

Petey will get hot. Just watch. I think he needs 4 more games.

[Flipper]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not a big one either.   This start is a lot better then last years as far as actual games go (results yet to see) ... took 16 games to see a turn around.    No Hamonic and still icing too many AHLers /fringe guys in the bottom six bottom pairings.   Like to see what the team can do with Hamonic back for a couple games.    Losing by one goal most losses .... and is who's fault is it really EP hasn't got going yet? 

Agree, the sample size isn’t big enough yet. People need to have a bit more patience but what’s new around here….

 

The core is still maturing; they turned over a significant portion of their bottom 6 and defense; they have a few key injuries; their top defenseman sat out the preseason; and arguably their top forward sat out the preseason after basically missing an entire year. 
 

The new guys need time to learn the ropes and everyone needs time to gel. I’ve seen progress everywhere except the end results, and that will come. They are losing by 1 goal most games and they’re not getting the bounces, which even out over the course of a year. Even against the oilers, currently one of the top teams, they only lost 2-1, both goals on the power play (both took bounces to get to the net) and their goalie stood on his head. A couple bounces and they win that game and this is a different conversation. And they will make those bounces happen when they start to gel. 

Did anyone expect the flames to be on the top of the conference? Do we really think Markstrom will continue to pitch shut outs? Doubtful. 

 

I wouldn’t evaluate them until the 20 game mark. They’ve got 70+ games left and our ‘expectations’ were to be in the playoffs at least. It will happen.