How did we descend into the bottom basement so fast, after all the changes this off season?

[stawns]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

Not if he doesn’t actually change the systems and start deploying players properly.

 

Its not a winning or losing issue. It’s a how the team plays the game under these coaches issue.

 

If the players are talented enough to win games once they get going while playing a static, passive, $&!#ty system, imagine what they could conceivably do with good coaching?

Change the system from what to what?

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, stawns said:

The system.does work, it just needs to be executed properly.  It's no different than the system most teams play, they're just not playing with any jump or urgency.  

 

On the plus side, they were much better against the Oilers, hopefully they can buuld on that.

Lol it’s very different than the systems most teams play. Name me one other team who employs a 100% collapsing zone defense at the NHL level.

 

Or one that relies almost exclusively on dump and chase.

[stawns]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

The team RELIES on out of this world goaltending not even to win games but just to not get blown out in games. That’s not sustainable.

Countless teams have leaned heavily on goaltending to keep them alive until they can work their games out.  It's nothing new

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Change the system from what to what?

How about an offense that focuses on both puck and player movement and creativity rather than dump and turnover the puck?

 

Or a Defense that pressures the puck carrier at least somewhat rather than standing still letting teams move the puck around at will?

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

The system.does work, it just needs to be executed properly.  It's no different than the system most teams play, they're just not playing with any jump or urgency.  

 

On the plus side, they were much better against the Oilers, hopefully they can buuld on that.

It doesn't work with the players we have.  I'd still love to have a coach who can be trusted to set the lineup without adult supervision.

 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Countless teams have leaned heavily on goaltending to keep them alive until they can work their games out.  It's nothing new

How many years should we wait for Green to sort their game out though? Or Benning for that matter.

[DrJockitch]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Habs reached the Finals this past season.  Course with Price out, they’ve come back down to Earth.  We’d be in their position if Demko was similarly out.

The other part of the Canadian formula is scraping into the playoffs and riding a hot goalie to a SC final loss.

Over the last few decades that is the only way Canadian teams seems to succeed with a few exceptions (2011).

Pressure of the Canadian market to always be competitive. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by DrJockitch

[stawns]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

Lol it’s very different than the systems most teams play. Name me one other team who employs a 100% collapsing zone defense at the NHL level.

 

Or one that relies almost exclusively on dump and chase.

They play a box+1, they're just not playing it very well at the moment.  It's a zone system and almost every team uses some variation of it.  

 

I agree they do collapse down, but I think that's more lack of execution than a directive.  On Saturday they were more aggressive in their own end and it looked much better, as they pressured the puck more and won battles for the puck.

 

To me, it feels like they just don't trust each other enough to be aggressive out there and when they do get the puck the panic and bobble it, or bring it back deeper info the zone.  That's not coaching, that's lack of confidence and poor decision making.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

How about an offense that focuses on both puck and player movement and creativity rather than dump and turnover the puck?

 

Or a Defense that pressures the puck carrier at least somewhat rather than standing still letting teams move the puck around at will?

I agree and a zone defense can be and is aggressive, but only in certain spots or situations.  The problem is they're sitting back everywhere in their own end.

[khay]

8 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Hey the good news is we didn't descend to the basement, we just stayed there from last year.

 

 

End the thread right now.

 

The question is wrong. It should be, why we are never out of the basement.

 

Answer is simple. Coaching. That's the only common denominator left.

 

Elite goaltending: check.

Better than average defence: check. OEL-Myers pairing is proving to be solid defensively. 

Talent up front: check.

Chance generation: Fail.

Team chemistry: Fail.

Effective PK: Fail.

Effective PP: Fail.

Size and grit: Fail due to preferring smaller faster players over guys that bring size element. You need a mix of both, can't have just one and expect to ice a winning product. Gotta have multiple ways to win a game.

 

[King Heffy]

Just now, stawns said:

I agree and a zone defense can be and is aggressive, but only in certain spots or situations.  The problem is they're sitting back everywhere in their own end.

Which is entirely on Green and Baumgartner.  This has been a problem during their entire tenure.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I agree and a zone defense can be and is aggressive, but only in certain spots or situations.  The problem is they're sitting back everywhere in their own end.

Yep and that’s coaching. Too much roster turnover to say the players aren’t being coached to play passive D. The only constant is coaching. So it’s pretty obvious where that problem is originating from.

[stawns]

Just now, King Heffy said:

Which is entirely on Green and Baumgartner.  This has been a problem during their entire tenure.

He can't go out there and play for them.  Not saying he doesn't have some responsibility, but to me it looks player driven more than coaching 

 

I really don't get the hesitancy of people to point the finger at the people who, you know, actually go out on the ice and play.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Yep and that’s coaching. Too much roster turnover to say the players aren’t being coached to play passive D. The only constant is coaching. So it’s pretty obvious where that problem is originating from.

I think that's a short cut to thinking and taking the easy way out. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Yep and that’s coaching. Too much roster turnover to say the players aren’t being coached to play passive D. The only constant is coaching. So it’s pretty obvious where that problem is originating from.

However, he may have lost the room, but that's a different argument, not a systemic one

[King Heffy]

Just now, stawns said:

He can't go out there and play for them.  Not saying he doesn't have some responsibility, but to me it looks player driven more than coaching 

 

I really don't get the hesitancy of people to point the finger at the people who, you know, actually go out on the ice and play.

Because they've been replaced and the problem still persists.  I don't get the people hesitating to blame the people who are implementing an idiotic system that is setting the players up to fail.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Because they've been replaced and the problem still persists.  I don't get the people hesitating to blame the people who are implementing an idiotic system that is setting the players up to fail.

Who's been replaced?  The core players are still the same.  The main culprit, so far, is Petey, boes and Miller who have been atrocious in their own end.

[wallstreetamigo]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

He can't go out there and play for them.  Not saying he doesn't have some responsibility, but to me it looks player driven more than coaching 

 

I really don't get the hesitancy of people to point the finger at the people who, you know, actually go out on the ice and play.

It’s on them too for sure. I think what doesn’t get enough consideration is the relationship between performance and confidence. Players have to have confidence in the systems they are being asked to play just as much as in themselves.

 

Green coaches a system designed not to lose. We lose more often than we should mostly because the roster doesn’t fit the style he wants to play. 
 

The players look ready for a new voice and a new system. And that happens to all coaches eventually. It becomes more of an issue when there is years of lack of on ice success too.

[King Heffy]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

Who's been replaced?  The core players are still the same.  The main culprit, so far, is Petey, boes and Miller who have been atrocious in their own end.

Since Green and Baumgartner have been hired, the entire defensive group.  They've been employing the same system with terrible results over their entire tenure.  Keeping these incompetent baboons is the definition of insanity.

[Heretic]

30 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Have you watched the games? The team is lucky it’s not even worse results wise. Thanks Demko.

Yes, I have watched.  Games could have went either way.