How did we descend into the bottom basement so fast, after all the changes this off season?

[wallstreetamigo]

13 minutes ago, stawns said:

However, he may have lost the room, but that's a different argument, not a systemic one

It goes hand in hand. Losing the room can happen for many reasons. If the players don’t believe in the systems they are being asked to play, it’s entirely possible a change is needed now.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, Heretic said:

Yes, I have watched.  Games could have went either way.

The balance of play in most games so far (and last year and years before as well) has been heavily tilted against the Canucks though. They have not been truly competitive in very many games this year. They have hung around in games mostly due to goaltending but that’s not a sustainable recipe for success.

[jovocop55]

Pettersson been invisible..  that’s the problem..  

[DS4quality]

Not to pile on but if you look at the players +1 seasons under Travis Green there are very few who have actually improved . Boeser was great his rookie season, Pettersson since his rookie year has had a decline. Miller's first year great, the next year was not great at all. Nils Hoglander solid rookie campaign this year has the engine but the flair is gone . I'm worried about Garland next season.

[The Lock]

I don't know. I look at teams like Buffalo and how  well they've been doing and think about how unlikely they are to continue doing well.

 

I think the opposite could be thought of with us. Remember when AV was coach and every season ended being a slow start for us under him only to win the Presidents' trophy later? Obviously, the Presidents' trophy is unlikely for us, but it goes to show how little the 1st 10 games of a season means when it comes to the overall picture.

[DSVII]

It feels like Green is just too cautious and passive. For me, the turning point was Buffalo. It was very telling that we had a 2-1 lead in Buffalo and his first instinct was to turtle and not put the pedal to the metal against a rebuilding team.

 

That mentality really seemed to bleed into the rest of our following matchups and set the tone on the team. If we're this cautious against the freaking Sabres, we're already going in with a 'play not to lose' mindset against the bigger competitions.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by DSVII

[DS4quality]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

I don't know. I look at teams like Buffalo and how  well they've been doing and think about how unlikely they are to continue doing well.

 

I think the opposite could be thought of with us. Remember when AV was coach and every season ended being a slow start for us under him only to win the Presidents' trophy later? Obviously, the Presidents' trophy is unlikely for us, but it goes to show how little the 1st 10 games of a season means when it comes to the overall picture.

AV could pull a 10 game winning streak out of his @$$ Green 4 games tops.

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

AV could pull a 10 game winning streak out of his @$$ Green 4 games tops.

Not really. This article says otherwise: https://www.nhl.com/news/facts-and-figures-vancouver-canucks-winning-streak/c-313502656

 

Our longest winning streak was 10 in 2002, long before AV (thus, AV's never pulled out a 10 game winning streak). The article also clearly debunks Green at "4 games tops".

 

To be fair, winning streaks like that in the NHL don't really grow on trees anyway.

[higgyfan]

When I watch the Canucks, I see a team that has no chemistry whatsoever.  Looking at the current roster, they have only 6 forwards (JT, Pete, Boes, Hogs, Pears, Bo and 2 dmen (Hughes, Myers) returning from last season.

 

That's an awful lot of new faces on the team, which certainly would affect the team chemistry and cohesiveness. It didn't help when they were thrown into a 6 game road trip, with little time for practice.  This should start to change during the current home stretch.

 

They are far too good a team to be playing the way they are, so if this situation continues beyond 15-20 games, I can see some big changes.

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Wait until the quarter point of the season to make any judgements. I understand the slow start and some of those trending negatives re: power play, offensive production, as well as player's minutes too.

 

The team's top players could very well start producing as they should and over the next 10 games the team could win more than they lose, where would that put the Canucks in the standings then ? Too early to tell right now.

[Fred65]

7 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

When I watch the Canucks, I see a team that has no chemistry whatsoever.  Looking at the current roster, they have only 6 forwards (JT, Pete, Boes, Hogs, Pears, Bo and 2 dmen (Hughes, Myers) returning from last season.

 

That's an awful lot of new faces on the team, which certainly would affect the team chemistry and cohesiveness. It didn't help when they were thrown into a 6 game road trip, with little time for practice.  This should start to change during the current home stretch.

 

They are far too good a team to be playing the way they are, so if this situation continues beyond 15-20 games, I can see some big changes.

 

 

If I'm looking through the eyes of Aquaman what am I seeinng that the rest of us are missing. I'm not certain that this is the case but has the players lost faith in TG

[higgyfan]

3 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

If I'm looking through the eyes of Aquaman what am I seeinng that the rest of us are missing. I'm not certain that this is the case but has the players lost faith in TG

I hope that isn't the case, but it could be.  I only watch the games on TV, so I certainly don't have the kind of vantage point Aqua has (or any other insider).  Anyway, I do think it will be resolved (one way or another) by the time they reach the 20th game.

 

 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, whcanuck said:

On SN650, they keep reiterating that American Thanksgiving is the point where the team will truly be evaluated internally. The “it’s not good enough, but it’s still only 9 games in” mentality. While I understand that thought process and businesses do typically run that way, if a change needs to be made now, for heaven’s sake make it now.

The Blackhawks fired Denis Savard early in the 2008-09 season, only 4 games in. The team then went on to make the playoffs and made it all the way to the conference final. The next year they went all the way.

I think the thought is, “let’s not do anything impulsive or rash.” I’d agree if it was Green’s 2nd year, it’s year 5! This is supposed to be a year where the Canucks move the needle and progress. They’re still spinning their wheels and look like the Canucks of 3 years ago.

Why wait until game 20-25 when the season could already be lost? If a change needs to happen to turn this thing around, make the change! There’s still time & it’s not too late. But it might be too late in 3 weeks.

Hey i've watched and driven cars, that "spun their wheels" only to win the race. I'm willing to wait another 7 games.   That's my spin dial rate. 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I hope that isn't the case, but it could be.  I only watch the games on TV, so I certainly don't have the kind of vantage point Aqua has (or any other insider).  Anyway, I do think it will be resolved (one way or another) by the time they reach the 20th game.

 

 

That's for sure the end of times gauge.   Also it's JB on the line too.   He knows it and probably doesn't care as far as money goes, and neither does Green.  But for sure they do as far as legacy goes.   

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

It goes hand in hand. Losing the room can happen for many reasons. If the players don’t believe in the systems they are being asked to play, it’s entirely possible a change is needed now.

I'm sure the players are frustrated more about losing then anything.   More then how many "points" they have, at least the vets.   Right now we are doing what CAL did last year, as in lose a ton of one goal games.    Is it the roster, is it the coach is it our star players ... who the heck really knows.  You don't.  Neither does anyone else on this site.  We aren't privy to what goes on behind closed doors, or why Green sits players (maybe they are sore / or maybe he just has a stupid "hunch").     I've watched a lot of coaches lose their NHL jobs, what the players say after is telling.   It's still fear motivated for a lot of the roster.   Ice time is a hammer and tong over their heads.   Right now ... certainly  there are players getting ice time that haven't performed to their abilities and to their ice time.   And some have done more and aren't getting the minutes.   Why should we as fans be so invested with so little data?   

 

Edit:  In other words let's just wait and see how this plays out.   Fired ...  not fired.   Playoffs..no playoffs. Cup no cup.   As fans we can't do much either way.   Other then bitch on that point you got me. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by IBatch

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm sure the players are frustrated more about losing then anything.   More then how many "points" they have, at least the vets.   Right now we are doing what CAL did last year, as in lose a ton of one goal games.    Is it the roster, is it the coach is it our star players ... who the heck really knows.  You don't.  Neither does anyone else on this site.  We aren't privy to what goes on behind closed doors, or why Green sits players (maybe they are sore / or maybe he just has a stupid "hunch").     I've watched a lot of coaches lose their NHL jobs, what the players say after is telling.   It's still fear motivated for a lot of the roster.   Ice time is a hammer and tong over their heads.   Right now ... certainly  there are players getting ice time that haven't performed to their abilities and to their ice time.   And some have done more and aren't getting the minutes.   Why should we as fans be so invested with so little data?   

There are a lot of indications that coaching is a major issue. Having to bag skate your team a handful of games into the season is a strong sign the message isn’t getting through. Hearing Green talk he seems to really be stretching to deflect responsibility. That self preservation instinct is a pretty strong indicator too. 

[wallstreetamigo]

54 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

When I watch the Canucks, I see a team that has no chemistry whatsoever.  Looking at the current roster, they have only 6 forwards (JT, Pete, Boes, Hogs, Pears, Bo and 2 dmen (Hughes, Myers) returning from last season.

 

That's an awful lot of new faces on the team, which certainly would affect the team chemistry and cohesiveness. It didn't help when they were thrown into a 6 game road trip, with little time for practice.  This should start to change during the current home stretch.

 

They are far too good a team to be playing the way they are, so if this situation continues beyond 15-20 games, I can see some big changes.

 

 

Vegas a few years ago and Seattle say hi.

[iwasbornafan]

They need Dusty Baker 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

Really we haven’t descended. We just never ascend.

 

It boggles my mind how anyone can call for the firing of Green while saying he is a terrible coach (he is, don’t get me wrong) while still supporting Benning, who is the one who kept him this season when it was clear a new direction was needed. 
 

Benning keeping Green and Baumgartner and hiring King all show it’s time for him to go.

 

This team needs a fresh set of eyes at the top and on the bench. And it badly needs to flush the excuse making, losing culture these two are the poster boys for.

Edited November 1, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[PhillipBlunt]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

Again, I'm frustrated with Greens deployment and allocation of ice time, but I'm not sure there's a better option at the moment.  

 

Shaw is a complete unknown and everyone is well past their prime or batsh!t crazy.  As I said, if Petey, Boes and Miller get it going, it'll be fine.........that's, literally, what is killing this team

Shaw is a complete unknown? I'm pretty sure Alex Pietrangelo, Colton Parayko, Seth Jones, Zack Werenski, John Tortorella, and various others know him and what he's capable of. He's been an established and recognized assistant coach for St. Louis and Columbus. with over a decade and a half of experience at the job. A guy like Shaw is primed to become a head coach.