Former Canuck Maxim Lapierre destroys Toews ( article).

[-DLC-]

2 hours ago, Canuck Luck said:

It is really EASY to say he would have done something. 

 

Meh.

Well it's also easy for him to say....they failed to do something.  That's the takeaway in it all.

[kloubek]

While it's great for former players to speak out and boost up their "entourage" as being stand-up guys who would have put a stop to this, there needs to be a unified voice within the current players to ensure a culture change occurs that will largely prevent something like this from happening again.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Or block every player and executive's legacy by banning them from the HHOF...could start with Hossa.   That would really screw with their legacies. 

But he’s got that mysterious skin disease that conveniently removed his cap hit from the Hawks.  League ain’t going to do **** substantially against the Black Hawks.  If this were the Canucks, Jim Benning would be looking at prison.

[D-Money]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:58 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

Toews and Kane should have their contracts terminated immediately.  And Bettman should be fired tomorrow.  Not sure how Cheveldayoff got away with it, he must have something on Bettman.

This is flat-out ridiculous.

 

We all have the benefit of hindsight here. Aldrich went on to do more nasty stuff, so we can look at Beach's story and say it's probably true. But at the time, it was a he said/he said situation. One guy said it was consensual, the other did not, and likely no matter how much investigating was done back then, there likely wouldn't have been any actual evidence. (Don't get me wrong, The Blackhawks organization should have at least tried, but realistically the end result would have probably been similar.)

 

And I can understand why grown hockey players would question Beach's story. Because most of them would have stood up for themselves, and not allowed themselves to be taken advantage of that way. This isn't like child abuse, where the victim usually doesn't have the mental or physical capabilities to protect themselves. They probably thought "I certainly wouldn't let someone do something like that to me". (Again, don't get me wrong, we now know Aldrich was a predator who took advantage of his authority to coerce someone - I'm just saying at the time why some young athletes would question the validity of his account.)

 

Also, about the taunting...what happened to Patrick O'Sullivan was worse than what happened to Beach. And yet, Burrows taunted him mercilessly about it. So are we going to "cancel" Burr too?

 

At the time, Aldrich was part of their team, and they knew him better than Beach. And there was no proof of what really happened, other than the account of the new guy. There still isn't any other proof, but now with Aldrich's history it sounds reasonable and believable. But you can see how at the time it was difficult to accept.

Edited November 5, 2021 by D-Money

[D-Money]

3 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Wondering if this is why Buffy walked away from the game. 

More likely...

 

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Toews and Kane should have their contracts terminated immediately.  And Bettman should be fired tomorrow.  Not sure how Cheveldayoff got away with it, he must have something on Bettman.

For sure the players, coaches, management, and any staff who knew about this assault and did nothing to help the victim (bullied the victim) should have their names removed from the Cup.  

[CoquitlamDave]

Not sure if we'll ever really know the truth about who knows what.  If they kept their mouth shut knowing these things had happened and ignored it, punishment should be had.  Draft picks?  HHOF denials?  All good with me.  But can't punish players based on what ownership did in closed doors with the coaching staff.  And Beach has only said he "felt" like everyone knew.  When your going thro trauma you see things much differently too.. Awesome that this has been brought up for society to discuss what is right and wrong and be an example to move forward with

[Gurn]

24 minutes ago, D-Money said:

what happened to Patrick O'Sullivan was worse than what happened to Beach.

Was it ?

 

And-victim blaming is a bad thing to do.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

22 minutes ago, D-Money said:

This is flat-out ridiculous.

 

We all have the benefit of hindsight here. Aldrich went on to do more nasty stuff, so we can look at Beach's story and say it's probably true. But at the time, it was a he said/he said situation. One guy said it was consensual, the other did not, and likely no matter how much investigating was done back then, there likely wouldn't have been any actual evidence. (Don't get me wrong, The Blackhawks organization should have at least tried, but realistically the end result would have probably been similar.)

 

And I can understand why grown hockey players would question Beach's story. Because most of them would have stood up for themselves, and not allowed themselves to be taken advantage of that way. This isn't like child abuse, where the victim usually doesn't have the mental or physical capabilities to protect themselves. I certainly wouldn't let someone do something like that to me. (Again, don't get me wrong, we now know Aldrich was a predator who took advantage of his authority to coerce someone - I'm just saying at the time why some young athletes would question the validity of his account.)

 

Also, about the taunting...what happened to Patrick O'Sullivan was worse than what happened to Beach. And yet, Burrows taunted him mercilessly about it. So are we going to "cancel" Burr too?

I got alot less sympathetic about O'Sullivan when he went on to rant about how Vancouver fans were essentially all ***holes and everybody hates them (his rant didn't just include Burrows or other players on the team).

[King Heffy]

8 minutes ago, CoquitlamDave said:

Not sure if we'll ever really know the truth about who knows what.  If they kept their mouth shut knowing these things had happened and ignored it, punishment should be had.  Draft picks?  HHOF denials?  All good with me.  But can't punish players based on what ownership did in closed doors with the coaching staff.  And Beach has only said he "felt" like everyone knew.  When your going thro trauma you see things much differently too.. Awesome that this has been brought up for society to discuss what is right and wrong and be an example to move forward with

The problem is they didn't keep their mouths shut in the room and nobody in their leadership group was man enough to tell the scumbags they call teammates to shut up.

[kanucks25]

50 minutes ago, D-Money said:

This is flat-out ridiculous.

 

We all have the benefit of hindsight here. Aldrich went on to do more nasty stuff, so we can look at Beach's story and say it's probably true. But at the time, it was a he said/he said situation. One guy said it was consensual, the other did not, and likely no matter how much investigating was done back then, there likely wouldn't have been any actual evidence. (Don't get me wrong, The Blackhawks organization should have at least tried, but realistically the end result would have probably been similar.)

 

And I can understand why grown hockey players would question Beach's story. Because most of them would have stood up for themselves, and not allowed themselves to be taken advantage of that way. This isn't like child abuse, where the victim usually doesn't have the mental or physical capabilities to protect themselves. I certainly wouldn't let someone do something like that to me. (Again, don't get me wrong, we now know Aldrich was a predator who took advantage of his authority to coerce someone - I'm just saying at the time why some young athletes would question the validity of his account.)

 

Also, about the taunting...what happened to Patrick O'Sullivan was worse than what happened to Beach. And yet, Burrows taunted him mercilessly about it. So are we going to "cancel" Burr too?

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

This is flat-out ridiculous.

 

We all have the benefit of hindsight here. Aldrich went on to do more nasty stuff, so we can look at Beach's story and say it's probably true. But at the time, it was a he said/he said situation. One guy said it was consensual, the other did not, and likely no matter how much investigating was done back then, there likely wouldn't have been any actual evidence. (Don't get me wrong, The Blackhawks organization should have at least tried, but realistically the end result would have probably been similar.)

 

And I can understand why grown hockey players would question Beach's story. Because most of them would have stood up for themselves, and not allowed themselves to be taken advantage of that way. This isn't like child abuse, where the victim usually doesn't have the mental or physical capabilities to protect themselves. I certainly wouldn't let someone do something like that to me. (Again, don't get me wrong, we now know Aldrich was a predator who took advantage of his authority to coerce someone - I'm just saying at the time why some young athletes would question the validity of his account.)

 

Also, about the taunting...what happened to Patrick O'Sullivan was worse than what happened to Beach. And yet, Burrows taunted him mercilessly about it. So are we going to "cancel" Burr too?

That's your opinion.There is zero point in comparing trauma, it accomplishes nothing.

 

Further more what you described in your first paragraph is rape. The vast majority of the time there is not going to be hard evidence that proves one way or the other. Most of the time one party will say it was consensual while the other will say it most definitely was not. If due diligence was done the end result should not have been the same like you say.

 

That middle paragraph is rediculous. That's victim blaming saying other people wouldn't let that happen to them so he shouldn't have let it happened to him. I would wager that 20 year old, professional athlete, Kyle Beach was a way tougher person then you, or any of us on this forum, and it happened to him. Saying that he's not a child so it shouldn't have happened is just plain stupid. I'm glad you never had your entire future, something you worked your entire life for, put into jeopardy by a sexual predator and forced to learn hard truths about how human biological reactions like fight/flight work.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Shayster007

[Elias Pettersson]

59 minutes ago, D-Money said:

This is flat-out ridiculous.

 

We all have the benefit of hindsight here. Aldrich went on to do more nasty stuff, so we can look at Beach's story and say it's probably true. But at the time, it was a he said/he said situation. One guy said it was consensual, the other did not, and likely no matter how much investigating was done back then, there likely wouldn't have been any actual evidence. (Don't get me wrong, The Blackhawks organization should have at least tried, but realistically the end result would have probably been similar.)

 

And I can understand why grown hockey players would question Beach's story. Because most of them would have stood up for themselves, and not allowed themselves to be taken advantage of that way. This isn't like child abuse, where the victim usually doesn't have the mental or physical capabilities to protect themselves. I certainly wouldn't let someone do something like that to me. (Again, don't get me wrong, we now know Aldrich was a predator who took advantage of his authority to coerce someone - I'm just saying at the time why some young athletes would question the validity of his account.)

 

Also, about the taunting...what happened to Patrick O'Sullivan was worse than what happened to Beach. And yet, Burrows taunted him mercilessly about it. So are we going to "cancel" Burr too?

This is flat out awful.  Just terrible really.  Give your head a shake and reread what you just wrote and then read it to every sexual assault survivor that you can find.  See their responses and get back to me.

 

"I certainly wouldn't let someone do something like that to me".  So not only are you victim shaming you're also accusing Beach of being weak minded and basically saying it's his fault.  Really?  Were you in the room when it happened?  Are all grown men and women who get sexually abused and assaulted weak minded?  How do you think sexual abuse and assault begins in the first place?  It usually happens when someone has power or authority over another, which is exactly what happened here.  

 

Add to that these so called leaders of the team, Toews and Kane, not only didn't believe it happened they laughed at him and participated in ridiculing him.  Shows a complete lack of respect to a teammate and a human being.  They should both be thrown out of the league.  We already knew that Kane was a scu*bag, now we find out Toews is as well.

[nux_win]

I used to have respect for Toews too.  The chances of him not knowing at the time are almost zero.  He, like so many others, put their ethics, their humanity, on hold until they achieved their personal goal, and crapped all over the poor guy who got abused.  Now that they can't hide it anymore people like Toews are offering help.  Talk about hypocritical...  GCG!

[sassbs]

Toews said himself he heard the rumours. Based on that alone he should’ve (as captain) pulled beech aside and asked him directly what’s going on!   No one did. Players bullied him.

there should be consequences to everyone who didn’t do anything to help him. 

['NucK™]

9 hours ago, x00x said:

ahahahahaah no

and nothing will happen to them no matter how hard ppl cry about it

What is funny about wanting people to be held accountable? A truly embarrassing comment..

[butters]

2 hours ago, D-Money said:

I certainly wouldn't let someone do something like that to me.

Simply put - you don't know this unless it happens. Everyone thinks they would do the brave thing in the moment. But not everyone will

[singing chef]

This is why it's a dangerous precedent to give the captaincy to young "superstars", like Toews, at a very early stage in their NHL careers.  They are just not ready or mentally prepared to handle such a huge responsibility.  Decades ago the captaincy was handed out to players who had been in the league for several years, learning their trade and earning the respect of players and coaches alike. Consider some of the captains from bygone eras:  Henri Richard, Jean Beliveau, Orland Kurtenbach, Nik Lidstrom, Denis Potvin, George Armstrong, Ray Bourque, Steve Yzerman, Scott Stevens, Jarome Iginla etc. etc.

 

I'm confidant that captains like Yzerman & Iginla would have been all over this situation and demanded action.

 

 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, singing chef said:

This is why it's a dangerous precedent to give the captaincy to young "superstars", like Toews, at a very early stage in their NHL careers.  They are just not ready or mentally prepared to handle such a huge responsibility.  Decades ago the captaincy was handed out to players who had been in the league for several years, learning their trade and earning the respect of players and coaches alike. Consider some of the captains from bygone eras:  Henri Richard, Jean Beliveau, Orland Kurtenbach, Nik Lidstrom, Denis Potvin, George Armstrong, Ray Bourque, Steve Yzerman, Scott Stevens, Jarome Iginla etc. etc.

 

I'm confidant that captains like Yzerman & Iginla would have been all over this situation and demanded action.

 

 

Same could be said of Crosby.   And other young players who got the C.    Captain Serious ... well his take on this was pretty bad. 

[IBatch]

43 minutes ago, sassbs said:

Toews said himself he heard the rumours. Based on that alone he should’ve (as captain) pulled beech aside and asked him directly what’s going on!   No one did. Players bullied him.

there should be consequences to everyone who didn’t do anything to help him. 

In a way there is right now.   Players like Lappy and Sopel for example calling out their dressing room.  And the court of public opinion / mob justice.   Toews...well he's a rich man and always will be.   But he's got a canker on his legacy now.   Aside from maybe locally nobody will touch him with a ten foot pole at the moment for any sort of endorsements...Beach wasn't treated right, and that leadership group is tainted nuclear right now.