Leadership

[*Buzzsaw*]

I have to wonder about leadership and the way this team is currently being motivated and why they are slumping.

 

Yeah, Bo is still Captain, and I am not suggesting he should be replaced, but there are some past leaders missing from the dressing room.

 

Marky, Edler, Tanev, Beagle... all these guys were calming influences who settled down the team when they started to panic.

 

Their replacements are not the same.  When Benning got rid of these guys, he should have found some players who had character.

 

Not that I am suggesting Markstrom should still be a Canuck.  (although Benning should have gotten something for him... letting a potential Vezina trophy nominee walk with no return is inexusable)

 

I didn't like Tanev's departure... the replacement we saw, i.e. Nate Schmidt was basically invisible when it comes to leadership.  (not to mention his mediocre play and 1.5 million dollar extra cost)

 

I also have to wonder if Edler could have been signed at a home town discount... maybe he would have been more expensive than the alternatives, but the intangibles he brought to the dressing room have to be considered.

 

Certainly I am not seeing any leadership coming from Green.

[ShawnAntoski]

Right now, a coaching change is the cheapest and most prudent move to make.   

 

Aquaman will just have to swallow the cost for the resigning of Green or we can all watch this ship go down; and (imo) Demko is the only reason why this ship is still floating.

Edited November 7, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Right now, a coaching change is the cheapest and most prudent move to make.   

 

Aquaman will just have to swallow the cost for the resigning of Green or we can all watch this ship go down; and (imo) Demko is the only reason why this ship is still floating.

AMEN !

 

Nothing more - needs to be said !

[DownUndaCanuck]

We don't really have many veterans left in this team who have been here a while. Sutter is one of them but of course he's injured. OEL is fresh into this team and hopefully carries a bit of leadership.

 

Honestly for a fresh team like this, we need a stronger coach to bond them together. The players are all there, the pieces are all in place, they need an experienced coach who knows how to consistently win at the NHL level to drag them out of this slump.

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not that I am suggesting Markstrom should still be a Canuck.  (although Benning should have gotten something for him... letting a potential Vezina trophy nominee walk with no return is inexusable)

 

Given the way the contracts lined up with the expansion draft, I don't see how Benning could have gotten anything for Markstrom.  Markstrom wouldn't sign without a no trade clause and one goalie was being lost to Seattle.  I don't think there was a way to keep Demko and get anything for Markstrom.  The expansion draft just screwed the Canucks disproportionately.  Canuck luck.

[JM_]

anyone else find it ironic that someone is complaining that Benning didn't bring in enough veteran leadership?

 

I do think the leadership is there and we're seeing it backed up on the ice by Bo, OEL, Myers, Garland in particular. This isn't a problem area.

[Makaramel MacKhiato]

I don't think it's leadership, I think it's that the Canucks are predictable because they try the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result (especially with their powerplay)... isn't that the definition of stupidity? 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

12 minutes ago, Top Sven Baercheese said:

I don't think it's leadership, I think it's that the Canucks are predictable because they try the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result (especially with their powerplay)... isn't that the definition of stupidity? 

Insanity. Trying the same thing over and over that isn’t working and expecting different results.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[hammertime]

Umm I would say OEL and Dickinson are proven leaders. Garland is leading with his play on the ice even Burroughs has a history of leadership. There isn't a deficit of leadership.  Pete, Miller, Bo, Brock need to be better especially Pete. They are gonna get Green fired. Probably Green also deserves to be fired. But the reality is if those guys can't pull their heads out of their arses. No amount of firing the coach, GM, owner, stick boy is gonna turn this ship around.    

[Alflives]

The Trolls are out.  

 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

7 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Umm I would say OEL and Dickinson are proven leaders. Garland is leading with his play on the ice even Burroughs has a history of leadership. There isn't a deficit of leadership.  Pete, Miller, Bo, Brock need to be better especially Pete. They are gonna get Green fired. Probably Green also deserves to be fired. But the reality is if those guys can't pull their heads out of their arses. No amount of firing the coach, GM, owner, stick boy is gonna turn this ship around.    

No but Benning put this team together. There have been signs that this team does not get the job done. They come out and say they need to be better but then the next game the same intensity is still there, lack of plays, bad pk/pp. Right now it’s the makeup of the team that just isn’t right. We don’t have a player who takes control on the ice and says enough s enough. I like Miller and his passion but quit yelling and having tantrums and get the job done on the ice. That sort of stuff can be good but it is never backed up with anything. You just look like a fool having tantrums out there. They really don’t have time to wait to see if things get better but they will because it’s the Canucks.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[Wolfgang Durst]

11 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I have to wonder about leadership and the way this team is currently being motivated and why they are slumping.

 

Yeah, Bo is still Captain, and I am not suggesting he should be replaced, but there are some past leaders missing from the dressing room.

 

Marky, Edler, Tanev, Beagle... all these guys were calming influences who settled down the team when they started to panic.

 

Their replacements are not the same.  When Benning got rid of these guys, he should have found some players who had character.

 

Not that I am suggesting Markstrom should still be a Canuck.  (although Benning should have gotten something for him... letting a potential Vezina trophy nominee walk with no return is inexusable)

 

I didn't like Tanev's departure... the replacement we saw, i.e. Nate Schmidt was basically invisible when it comes to leadership.  (not to mention his mediocre play and 1.5 million dollar extra cost)

 

I also have to wonder if Edler could have been signed at a home town discount... maybe he would have been more expensive than the alternatives, but the intangibles he brought to the dressing room have to be considered.

 

Certainly I am not seeing any leadership coming from Green.

first and foremost leadership is about asking the right questions. Therefore I would expect from Jim Benning and Travis Green to ask the right questions to turn this ship around.

The thing that concerns me the most is that we haven't seen any positive development in the following four areas:

 

1. power play - it really hurts physically to watch the PP

2. penalty kill - one of the worst PK percentage in the entire league

3. faceoffs     - FO are crucial because their outcome decides about puck possession.

4. culture       - Travis mentioned in his first press conference as Canucks headcoach that he wants to establish a winning culture. I haven't seen the effort to bounce back once

                        Canucks are behind one goal, especially at home.

 

I think you mentioned a great point in bringing up the character of the players. Don Jackson a former Stanley cup champion with the Edmonton Oilers and teammate of Wayne Gretzky is one of the best - arguably the best headcoach in Europe, winning several national championsships in different countries with different teams. Asked about the ingredients of success the first thing he brought up was that character is a No. 1 priority in the decision making whether to sign a player or not.

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

anyone else find it ironic that someone is complaining that Benning didn't bring in enough veteran leadership?

 

I do think the leadership is there and we're seeing it backed up on the ice by Bo, OEL, Myers, Garland in particular. This isn't a problem area.

Honestly Jim

 

I do not see a lot of leadership. IMO Schenn show about as much as anyone, and he's a 3/4th paring guy. No, we are missing those glue guys, guys with character, guys that go out and get those 6 hits in a game. Podkolzin is one of those guys, but he is years away from getting his team mates attention, at least with this coach. I do not think there is any question of the skill, but I really question the team glue, it's dressing room leadership.

 

But, in saying that, I also think the coaching staff has lost the room, and Benning needs to address that, or Aqualini will find someone that will. There are too many signs...aka players skating away from coaches, no commitment to drive.

 

I also think that Miller might be eroding team unity. He is kind of a sour individual, who shows his feelings in his play. Kind of hard to illustrate it, because he still is scoring points, but he is certainly not a rah rah guy. I don't think Petey and Boeser are motivated by him at all, and when you are struggling, I think you need your team mates to help you keep going, and certainly your line mates.

 

I see a lot things needing correction.

 

PS.............Sorry buddy, but I don't think any of the guys you mentioned instill strength, and none IMO exude character or glue...........maybe Myers, but its kind of Myers light in that department.

 

I really like Pods stats lately......6 hits in 7 minutes  and a goal against NY Rangers, banging his stick against the boards like a man man, when Demko does his Hasek, these things create energy. Who else is doing that? Schenn with his fights (poor guy!) Maybe, I am missing something. 

 

It also pisses me off to have the team expect Garland to be the physical leader of this team........like really????? (Can't wait until Hamonic is fit! and Sutter is back)

 

I am also curious and I can't remember, but did the Canucks do the Grouse Grind this summer? I mean, I was not a big fan of the Sedin's on ice leadership, but when they kick everyone's arses in the Grouse Grind, everyone understood their commitment and mental toughness, it also put everyone else together, voicing disbelief and complaining together how the Sedin's schooled them. It showed the Sedin's toughness.

 

I just don't see much if any of that. ................Funny how Podkolzin, Lockwood, Rathbone, McEwen, and Gadjovich all did/do. funny how 6'4" 208 lb Chiasson, doesn't!

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Honestly Jim

 

I do not see a lot of leadership. IMO Schenn show about as much as anyone, and he's a 3/4th paring guy. No, we are missing those glue guys, guys with character, guys that go out and get those 6 hits in a game. Podkolzin is one of those guys, but he is years away from getting his team mates attention, at least with this coach. I do not think there is any question of the skill, but I really question the team glue, it's dressing room leadership.

 

But, in saying that, I also think the coaching staff has lost the room, and Benning needs to address that, or Aqualini will find someone that will. There are too many signs...aka players skating away from coaches, no commitment to drive.

 

I also think that Miller might be eroding team unity. He is kind of a sour individual, who shows his feelings in his play. Kind of hard to illustrate it, because he still is scoring points, but he is certainly not a rah rah guy. I don't think Petey and Boeser are motivated by him at all, and when you are struggling, I think you need your team mates to help you keep going, and certainly your line mates.

 

I see a lot things needing correction.

 

PS.............Sorry buddy, but I don't think any of the guys you mentioned instill strength, and none IMO exude character or glue...........maybe Myers, but its kind of Myers light in that department.

 

I really like Pods stats lately......6 hits in 7 minutes  and a goal against NY Rangers, banging his stick against the boards like a man man, when Demko does his Hasek, these things create energy. Who else is doing that? Schenn with his fights (poor guy!) Maybe, I am missing something. 

 

It also pisses me off to have the team expect Garland to be the physical leader of this team........like really????? (Can't wait until Hamonic is fit! and Sutter is back)

 

I am also curious and I can't remember, but did the Canucks do the Grouse Grind this summer? I mean, I was not a big fan of the Sedin's on ice leadership, but when they kick everyone's arses in the Grouse Grind, everyone understood their commitment and mental toughness, it also put everyone else together, voicing disbelief and complaining together how the Sedin's schooled them. It showed the Sedin's toughness.

 

I just don't see much if any of that. ................Funny how Podkolzin, Lockwood, Rathbone, McEwen, and Gadjovich all did/do. funny how 6'4" 208 lb Chiasson, doesn't!

I guess for me I see a lot of individual effort, and a good 5 on 5 group. But Green et al has got them playing a way that just makes it hard to produce, and if Miller gets a little pissy I can understand that.

 

We've seen this show before with this team and many others, when a coaching group loses the room its not pretty. 

 

 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

first and foremost leadership is about asking the right questions. Therefore I would expect from Jim Benning and Travis Green to ask the right questions to turn this ship around.

The thing that concerns me the most is that we haven't seen any positive development in the following four areas:

 

1. power play - it really hurts physically to watch the PP

2. penalty kill - one of the worst PK percentage in the entire league

3. faceoffs     - FO are crucial because their outcome decides about puck possession.

4. culture       - Travis mentioned in his first press conference as Canucks headcoach that he wants to establish a winning culture. I haven't seen the effort to bounce back once

                        Canucks are behind one goal, especially at home.

 

I think you mentioned a great point in bringing up the character of the players. Don Jackson a former Stanley cup champion with the Edmonton Oilers and teammate of Wayne Gretzky is one of the best - arguably the best headcoach in Europe, winning several national championsships in different countries with different teams. Asked about the ingredients of success the first thing he brought up was that character is a No. 1 priority in the decision making whether to sign a player or not.

Watching how the current leadership group fixes this slow start should determine there long-term employment with the club; either way it will be a well earned termination or extension.

[allegend]

Brandon Sutter not being able to play really hurts the team. I think the Canucks were 4-8-1

at the end of last season after he was shut down. We know how bad the PK and faceoffs 

have been so far this season. 

[Crabcakes]

2 hours ago, allegend said:

Brandon Sutter not being able to play really hurts the team. I think the Canucks were 4-8-1

at the end of last season after he was shut down. We know how bad the PK and faceoffs 

have been so far this season. 

Yep, Sutter and others

 

They're +2 even strength, -5 on special teams

 

A sputtering PP...... only 6 goals.  New coach, Jason King in only his 2nd year in the NHL

 

But the PK is terrible.  Tanev and Edler gone.  Sutter and Motte hurt.  Hamonic absent.  -11.  Brad Shaw has plenty of experience but it takes longer to bring along a good penalty killer.

 

 

[lmm]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:00 AM, ShawnAntoski said:

Watching how the current leadership group fixes this slow start should determine there long-term employment with the club; either way it will be a well earned termination or extension.

which leadeership group are you talking about?

Ownership/President,( do we even have a real president?)/ GM/Coach/ Assistant coaches

or 

Bo/Miller/OELPetey/Boeser/HUghes?

[lmm]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:09 AM, J.I.A.H.N said:

Honestly Jim

 

I do not see a lot of leadership. IMO Schenn show about as much as anyone, and he's a 3/4th paring guy. No, we are missing those glue guys, guys with character, guys that go out and get those 6 hits in a game. Podkolzin is one of those guys, but he is years away from getting his team mates attention, at least with this coach. I do not think there is any question of the skill, but I really question the team glue, it's dressing room leadership.

 

But, in saying that, I also think the coaching staff has lost the room, and Benning needs to address that, or Aqualini will find someone that will. There are too many signs...aka players skating away from coaches, no commitment to drive.

 

I also think that Miller might be eroding team unity. He is kind of a sour individual, who shows his feelings in his play. Kind of hard to illustrate it, because he still is scoring points, but he is certainly not a rah rah guy. I don't think Petey and Boeser are motivated by him at all, and when you are struggling, I think you need your team mates to help you keep going, and certainly your line mates.

 

I see a lot things needing correction.

 

PS.............Sorry buddy, but I don't think any of the guys you mentioned instill strength, and none IMO exude character or glue...........maybe Myers, but its kind of Myers light in that department.

 

I really like Pods stats lately......6 hits in 7 minutes  and a goal against NY Rangers, banging his stick against the boards like a man man, when Demko does his Hasek, these things create energy. Who else is doing that? Schenn with his fights (poor guy!) Maybe, I am missing something. 

 

It also pisses me off to have the team expect Garland to be the physical leader of this team........like really????? (Can't wait until Hamonic is fit! and Sutter is back)

 

I am also curious and I can't remember, but did the Canucks do the Grouse Grind this summer? I mean, I was not a big fan of the Sedin's on ice leadership, but when they kick everyone's arses in the Grouse Grind, everyone understood their commitment and mental toughness, it also put everyone else together, voicing disbelief and complaining together how the Sedin's schooled them. It showed the Sedin's toughness.

 

I just don't see much if any of that. ................Funny how Podkolzin, Lockwood, Rathbone, McEwen, and Gadjovich all did/do. funny how 6'4" 208 lb Chiasson, doesn't!

I think you are spot on.

except for the Grouse Grind part

I always thought that was tailor made to benefit the Sedins

 

I think this team has a very conservative leadership.

Remember that ad with the "Swedish Twins"?

I know it was meant to be funny, but it really says something about this teams culture.

Going back that far, there are many players who either want out or have been run out of town

Raffi Torres, Kesler, Kassian, Prust, Sestito, Virtanen, Juolevi, McCann, Tryamkin, Schmidt, now there is noise around Pettersson

Maybe you don't want to keep all those guys, but that is a pretty long list.

Meanwhile, players like Doughty, Richards, Dust Brown, Voyanov, Keith, Kane, Lucic, Marchand are winning cups.

Again, I am not saying you want all of those guys either, but the leadership group going back as far as the Sedins seem very inflexible.

 

And then we get JT Miller and he acts as though he is the defacto captain, and we wonder why the team is disfunctional

 

Guys like Schmidt couldn't fit in in Vancouver but are fine in Winnipeg

Gudbranson is fine in Calgary with Darrell Sutter as coach, ( look at his body type and playing style, and one would expect him to be a slow learner, but he is doing well)

Look also at DeAngelo, sent packing from New York, but lands on his feet in Carolina, way too much danger for the Canucks

 

 Miller was too young and brash, and lazy to make it in New York, and not a fit in Tampa either. I think both those teams knew he had talent, but Tampa won 2 cups after he left. now he is calling the shots in Ultra-conservative Vancouver. It doesn't really make sense. For Miller to be on a successful team, he needs a strong leadership group that can accept him, but not follow him.

 

I don't expect or want the Canucks to be as brash as the Kings or Hawks, but possibly closer to Boston might be a happy medium. Tampa might be even better.

[ShawnAntoski]

2 hours ago, lmm said:

which leadeership group are you talking about?

Ownership/President,( do we even have a real president?)/ GM/Coach/ Assistant coaches

or 

Bo/Miller/OELPetey/Boeser/HUghes?

Mainly, the staff cause JB has assembled a deep roster but a coaching change will ofcourse, depend on JB and when that happens will more than likely come from Aquaman