[Proposal] Adding while rising

[NMHockey]

@CanucksCountry @JM_ @King Heffy

@#Canucks

Besides Dermott missing time this season with a concussion; our blueline has been better with him in it and his character has been fantastic. After these two trades which are nearly exactly what I proposed.. Allvin said in an interview that the Canucks Pro-Scouts all really like Dermott and his advanced analytics.

Oh and by the way it was also reported afterwards that Hamonic was not well liked in the room and some Canucks players reached out just to say what a "breath of fresh air" having him gone was. Maybe listen to me next time LOL

Edited April 24, 2023 by Underdog7

[CanucksCountry]

4 hours ago, Underdog7 said:

@CanucksCountry @JM_ @King Heffy

@#Canucks

Besides Dermott missing time this season with a concussion; our blueline has been better with him in it and his character has been fantastic. After these two trades which are nearly exactly what I proposed.. Allvin said in an interview that the Canucks Pro-Scouts all really like Dermott and his advanced analytics.

Oh and by the way it was also reported afterwards that Hamonic was not well liked in the room and some Canucks players reached out just to say what a "breath of fresh air" having him gone was. Maybe listen to me next time LOL

You can't really say our blueline has been better with Dermott when he has barley played for us, we are still missing that shutdown D to play with Hughes which Hamonic was at that point, on paper close to 2 years ago the trade didn't make sense, today with Hamonic's regression it makes more sense especially with the Canucks cap situation, How ever trading a 3rd for a guy who probably won't get qualified this year isn't the gotcha you think it is. on top of Hamonic who had value at the time, you hade us paying a 2nd as well which is way higher price than we paid for Dermmott.

Edited April 24, 2023 by CanucksCountry

[NMHockey]

3 hours ago, CanucksCountry said:

You can't really say our blueline has been better with Dermott when he has barley played for us, we are still missing that shutdown D to play with Hughes which Hamonic was at that point, on paper close to 2 years ago the trade didn't make sense, today with Hamonic's regression it makes more sense especially with the Canucks cap situation, How ever trading a 3rd for a guy who probably won't get qualified this year isn't the gotcha you think it is. on top of Hamonic who had value at the time, you hade us paying a 2nd as well which is way higher price than we paid for Dermmott.

Dermott has played 28 games for us in a season and a third of a season. In that span he has 2 goals, 1 assist, has only taken ONE penalty and is a +1. My point stands because Allvins comments prove it and yes because our blueline has been better with Dermott in it. Hamonic was a last-minute attempt at Benning trying to fix losing Tanev because Hughes was upset about Tanevs departure. That attempt failed miserably and Hamonic was an un-agile, injury-prone liability in the

D-zone who made horrible passes and looked lost. We got our own 3rd back for Hamonic and then traded Winnipegs 3rd for Dermott. We originally got Winnipegs 3rd for trading Schmidt there and we originally got Schmidt from VGK for that same own 3rd we got back from Ottawa for Hamonic. (Ottawa got our 3rd in the Holden-Dadonov Trade with VGK).

So in essence the Dermott-Hamonic swapping was a wash and not really losing a 3rd. I had us paying a 2nd because we were handing over Hamonic in the deal who as I said before was and still is older, slower, and less effective and is exactly double Dermotts cap hit. ($3,000,000 AAV • Hamonic)  ($1,500,000 AAV • Dermott).

Hamonic had almost negative value at the time so I don't know what you mean?

That is why so many people were shocked that we got a 3rd for him. The only reasons were because Chabot was out with an injury for Ottawa and they needed a D-man to finish the season and play with the young players. Plus Ottawa Assistant Coach Jack Capuano was the HC of NYI when Hamonic played there and he has always had a personal liking to Hamonic. That is the ONLY reasons Ottawa gave us our 3rd back for him. Also saying Dermott likely is not getting qualified is not fully accurate. At worst he is getting his rights traded for a draft pick as he still is young with RFA/Arbitration protection from straight UFA status. And also Dermott has been skating and working out hard to get back and also working with a specialist about his concussion.

Here are copy and pasted quotes from him and Allvin in a recent article. 

 

“I thought [Dermott] had a really good training camp,” said Allvin on Monday. “He was coming in here early August and was prepared…I think it's too early for us to say anything until he starts skating and getting into his workouts but he's definitely a name we need to talk about, what we're going to do, leading up to the summer and qualifying those RFAs.”

Dermott, for his part, is keeping that aspect of his summer out of his mind. 

“I'm sure I'm gonna be here. That's my plan,” said Dermott. “I haven't really talked to my agent too much about it. I'm gonna kinda leave it up to them. I mean, I know I haven't proved myself this year at all, so I'm not going to be arrogant and ask for much. I'm just gonna focus on myself and get feeling good and really try to dive into this new plan that I've got.

“When this happens for a whole year, you're not thinking, 'Oh, what money am I gonna make,' you just want to be back playing hockey again.”

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Underdog7

[Alflives]

29 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

Dermott has played 28 games for us in a season and a third of a season. In that span he has 2 goals, 1 assist, has only taken ONE penalty and is a +1. My point stands because Allvins comments prove it and yes because our blueline has been better with Dermott in it. Hamonic was a last-minute attempt at Benning trying to fix losing Tanev because Hughes was upset about Tanevs departure. That attempt failed miserably and Hamonic was an un-agile, injury-prone liability in the

D-zone who made horrible passes and looked lost. We got our own 3rd back for Hamonic and then traded Winnipegs 3rd for Dermott. We originally got Winnipegs 3rd for trading Schmidt there and we originally got Schmidt from VGK for that same own 3rd we got back from Ottawa for Hamonic. (Ottawa got our 3rd in the Holden-Dadonov Trade with VGK).

So in essence the Dermott-Hamonic swapping was a wash and not really losing a 3rd. I had us paying a 2nd because we were handing over Hamonic in the deal who as I said before was and still is older, slower, and less effective and is exactly double Dermotts cap hit. ($3,000,000 AAV • Hamonic)  ($1,500,000 AAV • Dermott).

Hamonic had almost negative value at the time so I don't know what you mean?

That is why so many people were shocked that we got a 3rd for him. The only reasons were because Chabot was out with an injury for Ottawa and they needed a D-man to finish the season and play with the young players. Plus Ottawa Assistant Coach Jack Capuano was the HC of NYI when Hamonic played there and he has always had a personal liking to Hamonic. That is the ONLY reasons Ottawa gave us our 3rd back for him. Also saying Dermott likely is not getting qualified is not fully accurate. At worst he is getting his rights traded for a draft pick as he still is young with RFA/Arbitration protection from straight UFA status. And also Dermott has been skating and working out hard to get back and also working with a specialist about his concussion.

Here are copy and pasted quotes from him and Allvin in a recent article. 

 

“I thought [Dermott] had a really good training camp,” said Allvin on Monday. “He was coming in here early August and was prepared…I think it's too early for us to say anything until he starts skating and getting into his workouts but he's definitely a name we need to talk about, what we're going to do, leading up to the summer and qualifying those RFAs.”

Dermott, for his part, is keeping that aspect of his summer out of his mind. 

“I'm sure I'm gonna be here. That's my plan,” said Dermott. “I haven't really talked to my agent too much about it. I'm gonna kinda leave it up to them. I mean, I know I haven't proved myself this year at all, so I'm not going to be arrogant and ask for much. I'm just gonna focus on myself and get feeling good and really try to dive into this new plan that I've got.

“When this happens for a whole year, you're not thinking, 'Oh, what money am I gonna make,' you just want to be back playing hockey again.”

 

Add to this that Dermott can play both sides. Even if he's not in our top six, he's an ideal #7 guy. 

[NMHockey]

I guess facts in @CanucksCountrys face just makes him laugh out of nerves?

[CanucksCountry]

12 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

I guess facts in @CanucksCountrys face just makes him laugh out of nerves?

I laughed because you are desperately trying to get me in a gotcha moment and I think it's really funny you are brining up a topic from close to two years ago. 

On 4/24/2023 at 2:39 PM, Underdog7 said:

Dermott has played 28 games for us in a season and a third of a season. In that span he has 2 goals, 1 assist, has only taken ONE penalty and is a +1. My point stands because Allvins comments prove it and yes because our blueline has been better with Dermott in it. Hamonic was a last-minute attempt at Benning trying to fix losing Tanev because Hughes was upset about Tanevs departure. That attempt failed miserably and Hamonic was an un-agile, injury-prone liability in the

D-zone who made horrible passes and looked lost. We got our own 3rd back for Hamonic and then traded Winnipegs 3rd for Dermott. We originally got Winnipegs 3rd for trading Schmidt there and we originally got Schmidt from VGK for that same own 3rd we got back from Ottawa for Hamonic. (Ottawa got our 3rd in the Holden-Dadonov Trade with VGK).

So in essence the Dermott-Hamonic swapping was a wash and not really losing a 3rd. I had us paying a 2nd because we were handing over Hamonic in the deal who as I said before was and still is older, slower, and less effective and is exactly double Dermotts cap hit. ($3,000,000 AAV • Hamonic)  ($1,500,000 AAV • Dermott).

Hamonic had almost negative value at the time so I don't know what you mean?

That is why so many people were shocked that we got a 3rd for him. The only reasons were because Chabot was out with an injury for Ottawa and they needed a D-man to finish the season and play with the young players. Plus Ottawa Assistant Coach Jack Capuano was the HC of NYI when Hamonic played there and he has always had a personal liking to Hamonic. That is the ONLY reasons Ottawa gave us our 3rd back for him. Also saying Dermott likely is not getting qualified is not fully accurate. At worst he is getting his rights traded for a draft pick as he still is young with RFA/Arbitration protection from straight UFA status. And also Dermott has been skating and working out hard to get back and also working with a specialist about his concussion.

Here are copy and pasted quotes from him and Allvin in a recent article. 

 

“I thought [Dermott] had a really good training camp,” said Allvin on Monday. “He was coming in here early August and was prepared…I think it's too early for us to say anything until he starts skating and getting into his workouts but he's definitely a name we need to talk about, what we're going to do, leading up to the summer and qualifying those RFAs.”

Dermott, for his part, is keeping that aspect of his summer out of his mind. 

“I'm sure I'm gonna be here. That's my plan,” said Dermott. “I haven't really talked to my agent too much about it. I'm gonna kinda leave it up to them. I mean, I know I haven't proved myself this year at all, so I'm not going to be arrogant and ask for much. I'm just gonna focus on myself and get feeling good and really try to dive into this new plan that I've got.

“When this happens for a whole year, you're not thinking, 'Oh, what money am I gonna make,' you just want to be back playing hockey again.”

 

In 24 games for the Canucks last year Hamonic had 3 goals, 7 points and was +1 like Dermott, so by those statistics our blueline is indeed not better. Honestly what Allvin said is a lot of words for saying absolutely nothing, though if anything is to be taken by that quote there is hesitancy when he is talking about brining Dermott back. my biggest issue wasn't even with the players, it was paying a premium to downgrade at  position of weakness to upgrade at a position of strength, especially when Dermotts value was at an all time low it wasn't even 6 months prior where Dermott made one of the most brain dead plays in a overtime playoff game the league has ever seen, at the end of the day Dermott is an adequate 6/7th Dman on a playoff teams roster,  this isn't the home run you think it is in all honesty the Canucks blue line is better off without both Hamonic and Dermott next year.

[NMHockey]

9 minutes ago, CanucksCountry said:

I laughed because you are desperately trying to get me in a gotcha moment and I think it's really funny you are brining up a topic from close to two years ago. 

In 24 games for the Canucks last year Hamonic had 3 goals, 7 points and was +1 like Dermott, so by those statistics our blueline is indeed not better. Honestly what Allvin said is a lot of words for saying absolutely nothing, though if anything is to be taken by that quote there is hesitancy when he is talking about brining Dermott back. my biggest issue wasn't even with the players, it was paying a premium to downgrade at  position of weakness to upgrade at a position of strength, especially when Dermotts value was at an all time low it wasn't even 6 months prior where Dermott made one of the most brain dead plays in a overtime playoff game the league has ever seen, at the end of the day Dermott is an adequate 6/7th Dman on a playoff teams roster,  this isn't the home run you think it is in all honesty the Canucks blue line is better off without both Hamonic and Dermott next year.

It is not just stats. Dermott looks better than Hamonic and it is ridiculous you bring up one bad play Dermott made while filling in for the

MAPLE LEAFS BLUELINE IN THE PLAYOFFS ... They just won a playoff round for the first time in 20 years so their issues were beyond one bad pass from a young Dermott. You want to talk bad passes? Hamonic looked drunk on the ice when he played for us and made passes that a Timbits player could pick off. Allvins words about Dermott came from what the ENTIRE PRO SCOUTING STAFF thought about him so chew on that. Dermott was 25 when we acquired him and is still only 26. So although I think we should package him in a trade for another quality RHD.. Your labels of him are not correct especially when he has just been trying to recover from a concussion.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Underdog7

[NMHockey]

@CanucksCountry Second time you don't have any facts or points to support your flack on Dermott so you just laugh. 

[CanucksCountry]

10 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

It is not just stats. Dermott looks better than Hamonic and it is ridiculous you bring up one bad play Dermott made while filling in for the

MAPLE LEAFS BLUELINE IN THE PLAYOFFS ... They just won a playoff round for the first time in 20 years 

so what you are saying is Dermott wasn't even good enough for a team that hasn't won a playoff series in 20 years? 

 

12 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

You want to talk bad passes? Hamonic looked drunk on the ice when he played for us and made passes that a Timbits player could pick off.

outside of Quinn Hughes i don't think a single defensemen looked good and made good passes under baumgartner's system.

13 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

 Allvins words about Dermott came from what the ENTIRE PRO SCOUTING STAFF thought about him so chew on that. 

you do realize that's the same pro staff that helped Hamonic here in the first place? 

14 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

so chew on that.

are we 6? i think we can be a little more mature than that when talking about such a pointless topic like you wanting to pay a 2nd for 7th dman. 

 

16 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

Dermott was 25 when we acquired him and is still only 26

that's the start-middle of players primes Dermott isn't going to grow much more than what he already is.

 

17 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

So although I think we should package him in a trade for another quality RHD

See that's something I can agree with but i doubt he will add any significant to a trade, will most likely be a throw in.

[CanucksCountry]

3 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

@CanucksCountry Second time you don't have any facts or points to support your flack on Dermott so you just laugh. 

you literally pulled a quote from Alvin saying idk if we will re-sign him and sourcing your eye test as factual lol I am laughing because you are grasping at straws here man, your really trying your best to get me to engage in such a pointless topic it's really funny to see tbh. 

[NMHockey]

1 minute ago, CanucksCountry said:

so what you are saying is Dermott wasn't even good enough for a team that hasn't won a playoff series in 20 years? 

 

outside of Quinn Hughes i don't think a single defensemen looked good and made good passes under baumgartner's system.

you do realize that's the same pro staff that helped Hamonic here in the first place? 

are we 6? i think we can be a little more mature than that when talking about such a pointless topic like you wanting to pay a 2nd for 7th dman. 

 

that's the start-middle of players primes Dermott isn't going to grow much more than what he already is.

 

See that's something I can agree with but i doubt he will add any significant to a trade, will most likely be a throw in.

Dermott was only 21, 22, 23, and 24 years old during the games he filled in for..... I guess by your logic that Rasmus Sandin was not good enough either since TOR sent him to WSH at the deadline? Timothy Liljegren finally got into  a game and has been a steady scratch... he is a young D-man too. Or is he not good enough either? And no.. no no no..

BENNING AND WEISBROD brought Hamonic in. Remember the part where Rutherford and Allvin revamped the entire staff even down to the doctors and trainers? And for the second time.. I had us paying a 2nd because we were dumping Hamonics contract in the trade which was exactly double Dermotts.

($3,000,000 AAV to $1,500,000 AAV). Also for a younger and faster D-man. It's pretty standard that the price for that scenario is a 2nd. We ended up paying Winnipegs 3rd so I was not far off as that pick was 14 slots into the 3rd Round which is just above the exact middle.

[NMHockey]

13 minutes ago, CanucksCountry said:

you literally pulled a quote from Alvin saying idk if we will re-sign him and sourcing your eye test as factual lol I am laughing because you are grasping at straws here man, your really trying your best to get me to engage in such a pointless topic it's really funny to see tbh. 

I quoted Allvin complimenting Dermott for being in town early and being ready to go.

And him saying he wants to see Dermott get a chance to get healthy and skating before a decision is made... I put cold hard facts in your face and you lost. Accept it. I predicted this trade months ago and you laughed at it then and are now trying to back peddle away from me bringing it up later to show you I was right. Grasping at straws? I put quotes showing our GM agreeing with me man... LOL.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Underdog7

[CanucksCountry]

7 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

I quoted Allvin complimenting Dermott for being in town early and being ready to go.

And him saying he wants to see Dermott get a chance to get healthy and skating before a decision is made... I put cold hard facts in your face and you lost. Accept it. I predicted this trade months ago and you laughed at it then and are now trying to back peddle away from me bringing it up later to show you I was right. Grasping at straws? I put quotes showing our GM agreeing with me man... LOL.

Yeah but you didn't predict this trade lol you had us trading a 2nd for the equivalent of 350k in cap savings, buddy your not a super hero lmfao you don't need to talk like one, you have put almost no facts here you provided the only facts and statists you have provided are these ones

On 4/24/2023 at 2:39 PM, Underdog7 said:

Dermott has played 28 games for us in a season and a third of a season. In that span he has 2 goals, 1 assist,

Which you see I countered here 

56 minutes ago, CanucksCountry said:

In 24 games for the Canucks last year Hamonic had 3 goals, 7 points and was +1

 

17 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

BENNING AND WEISBROD brought Hamonic in.

I was referring to the pro scouting staff that you mentioned which has not been touched yet by the Ruthford regime yet. 

 

18 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

I guess by your logic that Rasmus Sandin was not good enough either since TOR

Sadin is also putting much better numbers than Dermott,  Sandin got moved because of his style of play not being needed with Riely being there big difference.

16 minutes ago, Underdog7 said:

I put quotes showing our GM agreeing with me man.

You literally put quotes saying he doesn't know if they will re-sign him. 

 

[NMHockey]

3 minutes ago, CanucksCountry said:

Yeah but you didn't predict this trade lol you had us trading a 2nd for the equivalent of 350k in cap savings, buddy your not a super hero lmfao you don't need to talk like one, you have put almost no facts here you provided the only facts and statists you have provided are these ones

Which you see I countered here 

 

I was referring to the pro scouting staff that you mentioned which has not been touched yet by the Ruthford regime yet. 

 

Sadin is also putting much better numbers than Dermott,  Sandin got moved because of his style of play not being needed with Riely being there big difference.

You literally put quotes saying he doesn't know if they will re-sign him. 

 

First off. You have also confirmed you cannot analyze simple math. $3,000,000 minus $1,500,000 is $1,500,000 and therefore $1,500,000 in cap savings. Not $350,000...

Secondly.. learn to read. Allvins words do not remotely imply that Dermott is some depth stiff-legged schmuck who may not be back. Again his words are very complimentary to Dermott and have 95% to do with concern about Dermotts concussion status.

 

“I thought [Dermott] had a really good training camp,” said Allvin on Monday. “He was coming in here early August and was prepared…I think it's too early for us to say anything until he starts skating and getting into his workouts but he's definitely a name we need to talk about, what we're going to do, leading up to the summer and qualifying those RFAs.”

[CanucksCountry]

1 minute ago, Underdog7 said:

First off. You have also confirmed you cannot analyze simple math. $3,000,000 minus $1,500,000 is $1,500,000 and therefore $1,500,000 in cap savings. Not $350,000...

Secondly.. learn to read. Allvins words do not remotely imply that Dermott is some depth stiff-legged schmuck who may not be back. Again his words are very complimentary to Dermott and have 95% to do with concern about Dermotts concussion status.

 

“I thought [Dermott] had a really good training camp,” said Allvin on Monday. “He was coming in here early August and was prepared…I think it's too early for us to say anything until he starts skating and getting into his workouts but he's definitely a name we need to talk about, what we're going to do, leading up to the summer and qualifying those RFAs.”

if the cap space was so needed sending Hamonic down only costs 1,850,000 against the cap, compared to what Dermott is making right now which 1,500,000 so yes 350k extra while giving up a 2nd to do so, the bolded text shows hesitancy in brining him back. 

[NMHockey]

1 minute ago, CanucksCountry said:

if the cap space was so needed sending Hamonic down only costs 1,850,000 against the cap, compared to what Dermott is making right now which 1,500,000 so yes 350k extra while giving up a 2nd to do so, the bolded text shows hesitancy in brining him back. 

Except the difference would be paying $1,850,000 to have a veteran D-man playing in the AHL which helps Vancouver in no way... Or pay $1,500,000 to have a 25 - 26 year old D-man with high compete and character play in the actual NHL line-up.  

And any "hesitancy" that it sounds like Allvin may be giving off is because Dermott suffered  a bad concussion that took him months to recover from. It has nothing to do with Dermotts abilities. It is why Dermott is now working with a specialist and feeling better and hence why Allvin said he wants to see how Dermott does in skating and workouts. 

I'm starting to think Dermotts specialist should check your head too.

[CanucksCountry]

1 minute ago, Underdog7 said:

Except the difference would be paying $1,850,000 to have a veteran D-man playing in the AHL which helps Vancouver in no way... Or pay $1,500,000 to have a 25 - 26 year old D-man with high compete and character play in the actual NHL line-up.  

And any "hesitancy" that it sounds like Allvin may be giving off is because Dermott suffered  a bad concussion that took him months to recover from. It has nothing to do with Dermotts abilities. It is why Dermott is now working with a specialist and feeling better and hence why Allvin said he wants to see how Dermott does in skating and workouts. 

I'm starting to think Dermotts specialist should check your head too.

Well if Hamonic was that bad why wouldn't you put him in the ahl? I love the biggest attribute you listed there was Dermott's High compete level and not any on ice abietites, The Cnaucks are a better team if they can upgrade on Dermott there is no question about that. 

[NMHockey]

27 minutes ago, CanucksCountry said:

Well if Hamonic was that bad why wouldn't you put him in the ahl? I love the biggest attribute you listed there was Dermott's High compete level and not any on ice abietites, The Cnaucks are a better team if they can upgrade on Dermott there is no question about that. 

I listed Dermotts abilities before just like I've tried to get the same points across to you five  times in a row. If Hamonic was that bad why wouldn't I put him in the AHL? Because like I just said... you would have $1,850,000 AAV on the cap-hit for Hamonic to be in the AHL...........

[NMHockey]

@CanucksCountry I'm going to leave this here for you to watch. If quotes from our GM and also video clips as evidence do not resonate with you than all I can say is God bless you and go watch some more hockey.

 

[CanucksCountry]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:41 PM, NMHockey said:

@CanucksCountry I'm going to leave this here for you to watch. If quotes from our GM and also video clips as evidence do not resonate with you than all I can say is God bless you and go watch some more hockey.

 

RPReplay_Final1682897845.mov

Do I even need say anything after today? 

Edited July 1, 2023 by CanucksCountry
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