Save the Canucks...

[DefCon1]

41 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I don't think that any trade will help us unless we're able to bring in a 1st line center and knock Elias and Horvat down to 2nd and 3rd lines where they fit in better.  

 

If our top players keep playing like this, no trade will help us.  I'd almost rather pull a Colorado from 2016 or whenever they had two horrible seasons in a row and sold off Matt Duchene and a couple of other players. 

You cant say at this point if its the players fault. I wont make any changes to the roster until a new coach is hired amd we have played a bunch of games under him. Changing the roster wont change anything with how we are coached to play...dump and chase or stand still in PK and PP.

[DefCon1]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Coaching needs to grow some balls and send a message to our star players.  

 

Our PP1 often takes almost the entire 2 minutes of the power play to do nothing, without giving PP2 a chance to get on the ice.  When OEL was on PP1, he would spend 50 seconds out there and then change to allow Hughes to get on the ice, and same with Garland.  

 

How many times have we seen our star players overstay their shift on the ice and then half-as.sedly skate to the bench to change.  In fact that's what happened with Miller and Horvat in overtime against Anaheim.  

 

Elias 

Boeser 

Horvat 

Miller 

Hughes 

 

These guys need to be knocked down a peg and told that the team is bigger then any individual player.  Coaches should do that, one at a time, not all at once.  Elias should be sat for a game, let him party in Vegas on his birthday and take the day off.  

Problem is that the coach is the bigger problem. Because he doesnt have a right system and doesnt know how to coach. You name those players but the whole team stunk.  Its not an individual problem.

[the_impersonator13]

It's a coaching issue. You mean to tell me this team with an actual coach like Trotz, Gallant, Sutter, Tippett,  heck even Torts would be this bad? 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I don't feel like the roster is a problem. I'm more patient with staff than most fans, but I'm right on the edge of the "fire" line. I think at least one of Green, Baumer, or King are the main candidates for firing and maybe up to all three.

 

I'm to the point where if we lose next game, I will be looking for changes. After that, it starts to get too late to save the season.

One more loss like that .... absolutely.   Green is for sure on the hot seat.   Have been saying a lot that we haven't been blown out yet, special teams are an issue and we don't have a LHD that can kill penalties at all after OEL.    Yes "that's a good team over there"...post game Green looked completely deflated.   

Don't care that he called his players out, they needed that - Torts would have completely ripped into them and likely named a few guys too.    This roster IS better then the results.    Feel Green is gone if he doesn't turn it around soon, as in a winning streak.   And that the team needs a trade as well, a LHD like Poolman.    Still unhappy with the Jonah and OJ cuts.   Both seem to be part of the issue, OJ can kill penalties at least.   And grit wise ... well third game in Jonah fought a guy (and won) right away after a clean but heavy hit.    Frustrated right now.  

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

You cant say at this point if its the players fault. I wont make any changes to the roster until a new coach is hired amd we have played a bunch of games under him. Changing the roster wont change anything with how we are coached to play...dump and chase or stand still in PK and PP.

The power play for sure can be pinned on the the players somewhat for sure.   The PK?  Well that's for sure a personell problem to a large degree.   LHD is atrocious after OEL and if he's in the box might as well just take two minutes off the game and give the other team a goal and save them all the trouble.    Rathbone can't do it.   QHs can't do it (although at this point why not just see if he can start working on that part of the game)....and our forwards ... well without Motte and Sutter and Beagle and even LE it's just trash and i don't like to use that word for individual players.   Coaching has some to do with that, but not nearly as much as you'd think. 

 

Once a coaching change is made all the players have more fear in their bellies ... because they know what comes next.   A new GM possibly and for sure worrying about a call saying they've been traded.     It's disruptive to their social and family lives.   Most guys don't want to be traded once they've got a family at least.    Once that "fire or fear" dissipates, often the same issues come back.   Every hockey guy knows this.   

 

It often works (changing a coach) for a finite time.   Then the holes re-appear.  And sometimes it completely backfires.   

 

Making a coaching change is JB last card.   He knows this.  His legacy depends on getting it right.    At this point i'm almost disappointed enough to welcome Torts back.   His records speak for themselves, but it also comes with baggage to the players eventually, and all GMs don't have the stomach for that sort of ego in their organization.   Burke and Keenan lol...Burke threatened to beat him up after he pulled the goalie with 10 minutes left in the third (and they scored lol)....JB doesn't seem to be a big ego guy .... i hope he makes the right choices.     Green is possibly coaching his last games as a Canuck in November.    But it's not over yet.   And careful for what you wish for.   

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Making a coaching change is JB last card.   He knows this.  His legacy depends on getting it right.    At this point i'm almost disappointed enough to welcome Torts back.   His records speak for themselves, but it also comes with baggage to the players eventually, and all GMs don't have the stomach for that sort of ego in their organization.   Burke and Keenan lol...Burke threatened to beat him up after he pulled the goalie with 10 minutes left in the third (and they scored lol)....JB doesn't seem to be a big ego guy .... i hope he makes the right choices.     Green is possibly coaching his last games as a Canuck in November.    But it's not over yet.   And careful for what you wish for.   

 

I'd consider anything but Keenan.  Keenan is literally a sadist and possibly a psychopath.  Brett Hull almost beat the crap out of him after what he did to Hawerchuk and somebody really should have.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Bring in a proper coach (and proper assistants) and give them the year to try and turn this sinking ship around.

 

Now for the controversial part...

 

If the coaching change doesn't turn things around, consider this rebuild a failure, scrap everything and start rebuilding again. This "core" is really starting to look like a group of players that should be considered complimentary parts. It's time to face the possibility that they're not good enough to build around.

 

Oh, and for the love of god make sure that Benning and Weisbrod aren't the guys heading up this new rebuild.

Edited November 12, 2021 by 48MPHSlapShot

[rychicken]

In no particular order

We need a top 4 shutdown type Dman

We need to remove the player(s) that are the dressing room problem

We need a leader with heart and determination, someone who when we are down 2-0 or 3-0 says <expletive this> and backs the statement up by playing like he believes <expletive this>
We need a better DJ @ Rogers

[combover]

We’ll after we fire the root of the problem in JB 

and the coaching staff 

And a long over due firing of  delarome while we’re in the mode 
 

then Find some size and toughness to fill out the bottom three and some checking towards that aren’t 3 feet tall and 120 pounds to complete the bottom six and pk. 

and while we’re at maybe find a 3rd line Center that can win a face off

and chip in offensively once in a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kanucks25]

Starts at the top.

 

Aquilini needs to replace Benning with a respected name that has a history of success in the league. Someone who can communicate effectively the team's message and direction to the media, fans and even his own players. And then they have to prove they are telling the truth by making moves that support said message. Aquilini needs to let this person do their job and stay out of hockey related affairs.

 

This new GM needs to be the type that doesn't take shortcuts, and understands how to properly invest in the future/rebuild instead of buying a sack of magic beans. If that means taking a step back so that we can take several more forward in the future, so be it. They need to be someone who can handle the owner and the market. They need to be someone who employs a plethora of knowledgeable, diverse thinkers instead of desperately shedding anyone in the organization that disagrees with them.

 

Gillis wasn't perfect by any means but under him the organization felt like it was under control and in general, well run. He was the type of person that would try to figure out "how do we get better here?" instead of "this is how we're going to get better because I know hockey so this is what we're going to do and that's that."

 

You-know-what rolls downhill. Anyone who has worked (I assume most of us) knows what kind of a difference a confident and competent boss/leader can make. Doesn't matter if you're making 5 figures working a remedial desk job or 7-8 figures as a pro athlete.

 

And stop hiring underqualified coaches. Hire someone who commands respect and demands basic professionalism, effort, discipline and execution as a baseline. 

 

We have one of the most profitable and successful organizations in the league... no more Mickey Mouse garbage.

[Patel Bure]

10 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Think of how bad Calgary was last season and then they hire Daryl Sutter ...... big change. Unfortunately FA didn't make a move during the summer and watched as other team made chnages they felt as needed

This 100 percent.  Bringing in Broudreau or Julien would be a big step forward.

 

I mentioned this earlier, but I’m also a firm believer in the philosophy of “one degree of separation.”  In other words, as offensively impotent as we have been, I’m also of the belief that bringing in one significant player could make a huge difference.......and I believe that buying low on the troublesome Evander Kane would have a huge positive on-ice effect.

 

E.Kane-Pettersson-Boeser

 

Which then allows us to put Miller with Horvat as our match ups line (Miller = big upgrade over Pearson).  
 

Where else would we be able to get a player of Kane’s calibre for so cheap?

 

__________________________________

 

Ps - If the above isn’t an option, then I would do the following:

 

1) Pettersson for Pierre Luc Dubois

2) Boeser ++ for Patrik Laine

 

Laine has some baggage around him as well and will also come at a huge qualifying offer.  However, unlike Boeser, Laine is a legitimate top line player and so it might beehove the Canucks to trade Boeser while the rest of the league still believe that Boeser has top line potential.  
 

Miller-PLD-Laine

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Garland-Dickinson-Podkolzin 

[kanucks25]

As for the actual roster, I will maintain there are a lot of good pieces in place. Just the overall roster construction needs to be shaken up.

 

IMO, this should be our core going forward:

 

________ - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Hoglander - Horvat - Garland

________ - ________ - ________

________* - ________ - ________

 

Hughes - ________

OEL~ - ________

________ - ________

 

Demko

________

 

*You can stick Motte in that 4LW spot, if you so please

~OEL hasn't been bad, but he's mostly stuck there because of his contract rather than being an actual core piece

 

Main priorities:

1. Top-4 RD's that can actually defend

2. Depth forwards that can actually defend, create energy and are tough to play against

[DSVII]

44 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

As for the actual roster, I will maintain there are a lot of good pieces in place. Just the overall roster construction needs to be shaken up.

 

IMO, this should be our core going forward:

 

________ - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Hoglander - Horvat - Garland

________ - ________ - ________

________* - ________ - ________

 

Hughes - ________

OEL~ - ________

________ - ________

 

Demko

________

 

*You can stick Motte in that 4LW spot, if you so please

~OEL hasn't been bad, but he's mostly stuck there because of his contract rather than being an actual core piece

 

Main priorities:

1. Top-4 RD's that can actually defend

2. Depth forwards that can actually defend, create energy and are tough to play against

Agreed, we don't need to rebuild, a retool can help turn this around.

 

I just don't see Benning trading Miller while he has value though. We are most likely going to let him walk in UFA because he sees us making a playoff run.

 

#1. We had one, who wanted to stay, and we let him walk. Still grinds my gears.

[Fred65]

I could be wrong but IMO we are following along in the Toronto model. They signed Taveres, long term for big money when in fact they should have been after a #1 defenceman. TO thought they could just out score the problems, they can't. Vcr signed Miller ( who I like a lot ) but they needed a quality D'man. OEL has been better than I expected but we need more defence than offence. You are not going to win many with the likes of Poolman, Burroughs, Hunt, or Schenn ( Schenn being the best of the bunch, he does bring some truculence ) They're mostly scraps from other teams. So far Dickenson is not a Malhotra clone. Highmore,Chiason, Dowling, Lammikko and Bailey are just fillers. Think of this, why would you sign a 3rd line centre who is less than adequate for face offs, it's one of his prime resonsibilities as a 3rd line centre. I have no reason to say this but I get the impression JB listens to Weisbrod too much and his Pro scouts are not up to snuff. Remember Mr Griffith Snr telling Harry Neal to fire Roger Nieisson and when he said he didn't want to do that, Mr Griffith said right now we're firing one man but that could just as easy be two men, JB fire Green and bring in a short term coach to right the ship IMHO. You might just delay your on departure

Edited November 12, 2021 by Fred65

[Eddie]

Replace the coaching staff is the next, and currently a huge priority.

 

Despite the success in 2019 bubble that team had serious issues getting hemmed in their own end and leaking high danger chances due to disorganized team D. Those deficiencies were amped up to 11 in 2020 we ignored them and blamed them on COVID, EP-40 injury and the usual whipping boys. 

 

On to 2021 and those deficiencies are still there in a crippling way. Even with almost everyone agreeing that individual players are better.

 

Add to that - absolutely terrible Preseason . . . Team wasn't ready to start the season. 

Team let in the first goal almost every game - a trend that has been consistent under green. Again amplified this season. They aren't ready to play - EVERY GAME ! 

 

Players looking fed up and questioning the coaches at the bench.

 

Coaching staff has to go ! 

 

If that doesn't work - I think its a clean house which will be another 3-5 years of pain depending on how the lottery balls work out for us.  Think of it in a similar situation to the Oilers after drafting Yakupov, Hall, Nuge etc . . . took sucking for a good few more years before finally drafting 2 'generational' players. And we have still had more success in the playoffs than them.

 

I think there is a good core there. Hughes, Demmer look top tier, Hogz, Podz, Garland are great complimentary players.  We don't know what we have in EP still. I can't see Miller and Bo sticking around given their age range and salary hopes.  We also have an aging D core who will be past their best come the next competing window. Only Hughes ( and god hope Rathbone ). Our inability to draft and develop defensive D is going to hurt. 

 

I honestly don't hate what Benning has done. Even the moves that people love to $&!# on given the benefit of hind sight. The guy didn't draw a great hand from start to finish and I mostly could understand the decisions along the way. That being said,  I think we do now have a culture where losing is ok ( depsite never actually tanking when we sure as hell should have !), poor decision making and substandard operations in some key offices.  Bringing in a new GM who can turn that around and make some hard decision on some of the Benning players is a logical next step that will have to be taken if the coaching change doesn't work. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

14 hours ago, King Heffy said:

I think we'll be fine once Green, Baumer, and King are no longer destroying the team with their gross incompetence.  We would be better off letting the players coach themselves than continuing to employ these imbeciles.

I'm inclined to agree with this but am also at a loss with what's going on with Petey and Brock this year.  Petey I can understand since he missed training camp and missed a large chunk of last season, but what's accounting for Boeser's lackadaisical play?  Whatever the case, the Canucks are basically playing without a top line right now.  Dickinson also appears to be a downgrade on Jay Beagle right now.  

 

Before this season, most of us assumed that our top two RD's would be our Achilles heel but I certainly did expect us to be playing without a top line.  Our special teams is absolutely atrocious.  Our PP should be able to get better fairly shortly (With a new coach perhaps), but our PK is not even AHL level right now.

[Gnarcore]

I want a new owner. This is all on FA cheaping out on coaches and not wanting a true rebuild like Linden wanted. 

[Ghostsof1915]

4 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

I want a new owner. This is all on FA cheaping out on coaches and not wanting a true rebuild like Linden wanted. 

Got a few billion dollars in your account you don't need? And can afford the operating costs? 

If so all the power to you. 

[Down by the River]

It should come as no surprise that the slumlords of Vancouver are satisfied with a subpar team that makes them money. 

 

Don't pay for games, don't pay for merchandise. Hurt this team in the only way that will produce change. 

[Pickly]

5 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I'm inclined to agree with this but am also at a loss with what's going on with Petey and Brock this year.  Petey I can understand since he missed training camp and missed a large chunk of last season, but what's accounting for Boeser's lackadaisical play?  Whatever the case, the Canucks are basically playing without a top line right now.  Dickinson also appears to be a downgrade on Jay Beagle right now.  

 

Before this season, most of us assumed that our top two RD's would be our Achilles heel but I certainly did expect us to be playing without a top line.  Our special teams is absolutely atrocious.  Our PP should be able to get better fairly shortly (With a new coach perhaps), but our PK is not even AHL level right now.

Pettersson and Boeser aren’t strong enough skaters to truly drive play. Tremendous players, but lack foot speed  and struggle to create enough speed in the neutral zone with the puck and put opposing defenceman on their heels. Time and time again I see Petey receive a pass in the neutral zone, slow down and either look for a pass or simply chip it in.