Why is Green "well respected" around the league?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

It feels like every article I read, Travis Green is noted as "well respected" around the league as a coach.

I just looked up his 4 year AHL record - 2/4 years his team missed the playoffs, 1/4 year his team lost in round 1, and 1/4 year they lost in the finals. In 4 NHL seasons, 3/4 seasons his team missed the playoffs, and 1/4 year they lost in round 3. 

Thats 5/8 seasons he coached, his team missed the playoffs. 

Here's a quick comparison to Bruce Boudreau:

8/8 AHL seasons, his team made the playoffs
10/12 NHL seasons, his team made the playoffs

Thats 2/20 seasons, his team missed the playoffs. 

How tf does Boudreau not have a job, while Green got a 2 year extension?????

As a head coach, Willie Desjardins, another “nice guy”, has won the Memorial Cup and Calder Cup (AHL).  Nice guy Travis Green has won as a head coach, the participation medal.  Why don’t we re-hire Willie Desjardins?

[iinatcc]

7 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

Well ask Benning. He also didnt sign Tanev or Toffoli to 4 mil per year contracts yet re-signed pearson close to 4 mil and gave poolman a hefty contract. He loves mediocrity I guess.

Benning likes to overpay his UFAs of course he wouldn't sign Tanev and Toffoli to reasonable deals.

 

It's totally out of his character

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by iinatcc

[combover]

I’d guess he’s respected from his playing days not his coaching. 

 

not sure hoping the goaltender steals every game is respected  coaching. 
And The High event low success system isn’t respected anywhere. 
 

[AV.]

5 hours ago, mll said:

The feeling many observers seem to convey is that Green has done well with the little he has to work with.

 

Till now the criticism from observers has been directed towards Benning - maybe that changes with the core also struggling.  They don't seem to think much of the roster construction.  The young core has impressed - Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser etc with Green getting his share of the praise for their impact.  

 

Benning's signings in free agency have been mostly harshly criticised though and several of his trades haven't impressed either.

 

Sportsnet gave Vancouver the only fail grade of the Canadian teams in free agency this summer with a D+.

 

Most projections had Vancouver outside of a playoff spot.  Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes were ranked highly in those projections but many of the players surrounding them weren't.   That the young players are now struggling might change perception.

 

 

This gets lost of so many people.

Green may or may not be a great coach (I don't think he's great), but half of CDC expects him to perform miracles with a team that lacks good construction and composition.  Vancouver's defence is, and has been, one of the worst in the league for many years now.  And the scary thing is, if not for Markstrom before and Demko now, the team would be so much worse.  Take any of the best coaches in the world, or historically, and they wouldn't do much better with the players we ice on the backend. 

Too many of the same fanatics on this board convinced themselves that Brad Shaw and Tucker Poolman would shore things up, that a finished OEL would suddenly turn back the clock five years, that Hamonic would suddenly become a useful top4 defencemen.  Too much hope and not enough reality.

[Fanuck]

8 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Yeah my mind is blown b/c ive never worked at a place where someone underperforming that drastically for that long has remained employed. 

I take it you've never worked in government before then?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I take it you've never worked in government before then?

@Boudrias  I'm sure you'll like this reply:

 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Dazzle]

24 minutes ago, AV. said:

This gets lost of so many people.

Green may or may not be a great coach (I don't think he's great), but half of CDC expects him to perform miracles with a team that lacks good construction and composition.  Vancouver's defence is, and has been, one of the worst in the league for many years now.  And the scary thing is, if not for Markstrom before and Demko now, the team would be so much worse.  Take any of the best coaches in the world, or historically, and they wouldn't do much better with the players we ice on the backend. 

Too many of the same fanatics on this board convinced themselves that Brad Shaw and Tucker Poolman would shore things up, that a finished OEL would suddenly turn back the clock five years, that Hamonic would suddenly become a useful top4 defencemen.  Too much hope and not enough reality.

Being wrong and not admitting it doesn't mean you're right

 

You were totally wrong about Poolman. It's funny because you kept bashing the signing when he was only 2.5 - far from an overpayment. And as for term, 4 years isn't that bad. The fact that you lumped this signing with Benning's other signings show your bias. Poolman is a good pickup, and so was OEL.

 

OEL is the first legit first pairing defenceman since Edler, and my god, that's largely because our previous GM couldn't draft one in his many years. Blaming OEL for this team's success is very narrow minded, but I'm not surprised that you're the type of poster to rehash arguments.

 

Blaming Benning for the construction of the team is laughable, considering he did everything one could imagine to fix this team. Was it enough? Maybe not. On the other hand, Benning absolutely deserves criticism for keeping Green for as long as he did. Green has consistently coached around 40-50 percent, even with the bubble team. Green's been given more than a chance - including a much improved roster (on paper), and Green stumbles out of the gate. His preseason warranted much attention because of how poor our record has been, and yet, he doesn't seem to have helped this team prepare for games. This 7-1 loss is not a reflection of poor defense. It's a reflection of how this season has been. Colorado is a lot better of a team than the record shows, and the Canucks got destroyed. However, the Canucks did not dominate against weaker teams like Detroit or Buffalo.

 

Green needs to be replaced. He has never shown that he can do anything regardless of the roster that he had, minus the year in the bubble.

[JM_]

6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Remember how we made fun of the Oilers for buying into the Toronto media AHL hype for Dallas Eakins?

 

Green is pretty much our version of that.

thats actually a pretty good comparison. 

[wallstreetamigo]

6 hours ago, Pears said:

The funny thing about that, Eakins has done a pretty nice job turning things around in Anaheim so far. 

2nd head coaching gig after a big layoff. Coaches regularly say being fired from their first job makes them reflect on what they need to change and improve on and makes them better coaches.

 

last nights post game is a clear indication Green could use that dose of reality and humility to gain perspective about himself.

[Hairy Kneel]

I stopped listening to the radio guys who were fawning all over Green. Made me gag. "Oh well respected around the league and would find another coaching job at the snap of a finger." 

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I stopped listening to the radio guys who were fawning all over Green. Made me gag. "Oh well respected around the league and would find another coaching job at the snap of a finger." 

I don’t see a single team that would fire their coach to hire Green if he got fired. I didn’t buy the story that Seattle would have scooped him up either. He is just not a good coach or leader. Last nights post game clearly showed he assigns zero accountability to himself or his staff. How any player could respect him after that is beyond me.

[AV.]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Being wrong and not admitting it doesn't mean you're right

 

You were totally wrong about Poolman. It's funny because you kept bashing the signing when he was only 2.5 - far from an overpayment. And as for term, 4 years isn't that bad. The fact that you lumped this signing with Benning's other signings show your bias. Poolman is a good pickup, and so was OEL.

 

OEL is the first legit first pairing defenceman since Edler, and my god, that's largely because our previous GM couldn't draft one in his many years. Blaming OEL for this team's success is very narrow minded, but I'm not surprised that you're the type of poster to rehash arguments.

 

Blaming Benning for the construction of the team is laughable, considering he did everything one could imagine to fix this team. Was it enough? Maybe not. On the other hand, Benning absolutely deserves criticism for keeping Green for as long as he did. Green has consistently coached around 40-50 percent, even with the bubble team. Green's been given more than a chance - including a much improved roster (on paper), and Green stumbles out of the gate. His preseason warranted much attention because of how poor our record has been, and yet, he doesn't seem to have helped this team prepare for games. This 7-1 loss is not a reflection of poor defense. It's a reflection of how this season has been. Colorado is a lot better of a team than the record shows, and the Canucks got destroyed. However, the Canucks did not dominate against weaker teams like Detroit or Buffalo.

 

Green needs to be replaced. He has never shown that he can do anything regardless of the roster that he had, minus the year in the bubble.

Lol.  Same old excuses, exaggerations, and misinformation from you.

We can engage in these little gymnastics or we can just go by what we see in the games, the standings, etc.  The team isn't better off from last year, despite any moves they made.  Chalk that to coaching but also chalk that to the guys who make the moves in management.  It's that simple.

The sooner you accept the defence has never been good enough, the easier it will be.

Hope this helps.

[erkayloomeh]

8 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Being wrong and not admitting it doesn't mean you're right

 

You were totally wrong about Poolman. It's funny because you kept bashing the signing when he was only 2.5 - far from an overpayment. And as for term, 4 years isn't that bad. The fact that you lumped this signing with Benning's other signings show your bias. Poolman is a good pickup, and so was OEL.

 

OEL is the first legit first pairing defenceman since Edler, and my god, that's largely because our previous GM couldn't draft one in his many years. Blaming OEL for this team's success is very narrow minded, but I'm not surprised that you're the type of poster to rehash arguments.

 

Blaming Benning for the construction of the team is laughable, considering he did everything one could imagine to fix this team. Was it enough? Maybe not. On the other hand, Benning absolutely deserves criticism for keeping Green for as long as he did. Green has consistently coached around 40-50 percent, even with the bubble team. Green's been given more than a chance - including a much improved roster (on paper), and Green stumbles out of the gate. His preseason warranted much attention because of how poor our record has been, and yet, he doesn't seem to have helped this team prepare for games. This 7-1 loss is not a reflection of poor defense. It's a reflection of how this season has been. Colorado is a lot better of a team than the record shows, and the Canucks got destroyed. However, the Canucks did not dominate against weaker teams like Detroit or Buffalo.

 

Green needs to be replaced. He has never shown that he can do anything regardless of the roster that he had, minus the year in the bubble.

A great coach will get a decent performance out of a poor roster. 

We have some holes but a decent roster.

Petersson, boeser,  horvat, Hughes, oel, Garland, hogs,podz and Miller.  We have enough quality players that when you see what we are seeing then to me it boils down to two possibilities.  Coaching, or there is some kind of problem in the room.  

If it's coaching then we know the answer.

If it's some kind of a problem in the room then who's responsible to fix that? 

The captain? Coach? GM? 

[Hairy Kneel]

Notice EP is really paying attention. He obviously respects Boes, who's side do you think EP takes listening to this. 

Now last night coach screaming at him? 

[Wanless]

5 minutes ago, AV. said:

Lol.  Same old excuses, exaggerations, and misinformation from you.

We can engage in these little gymnastics or we can just go by what we see in the games, the standings, etc.  The team isn't better off from last year, despite any moves they made.  Chalk that to coaching but also chalk that to the guys who make the moves in management.  It's that simple.

The sooner you accept the defence has never been good enough, the easier it will be.

Hope this helps.

Not sure if you've looked at the plus minus stats but the only defensemen that have a minus are Burroughs at minus 8 Rathbone at minus 5 and Hunt at minus 3

 

These guys have no business playing in the NHL. But the other 6 are plus players

 

Its obvious that the team’s weaknesses are special teams. Both the eye test and stat lines support this. And thats on coaching

 

 

 

 

[AV.]

Just now, Wanless said:

Not sure if you've looked at the plus minus stats but the only defensemen that have a minus are Burroughs at minus 8 Rathbone at minus 5 and Hunt at minus 3

 

These guys have no business playing in the NHL. But the other 6 are plus players

 

Its obvious that the team’s weaknesses are special teams. Both the eye test and stat lines support this. And thats on coaching

 

 

 

 

+- argument in 2021?  Somebody hold me.  Guess Hughes and his -837429397 last year is barely timbits hockey level?

Sure, improve special teams and render marginal results in the short-term, but the team composition is still an issue.

[AK_19]

10 minutes ago, AV. said:

+- argument in 2021?  Somebody hold me.  Guess Hughes and his -837429397 last year is barely timbits hockey level?

Sure, improve special teams and render marginal results in the short-term, but the team composition is still an issue.

It has specialized use, I find it worthwhile to compare +/- with teammates as opposed to players on other teams. It gives a good idea which players are playing in roles out of their depth. 

[Attila Umbrus]

2 hours ago, AV. said:

This gets lost of so many people.

Green may or may not be a great coach (I don't think he's great), but half of CDC expects him to perform miracles with a team that lacks good construction and composition. 

I agree on this part. It’s really starting to frustrate me that we went into the year with a crap load of RD but no LD depth. 
 

I think construction and composition is so important. We are a totally imbalanced team right now. We have been low in quality centres for years and quality defensive depth. Beyond our top 2 lines we’re pretty empty actually.

 

Which is why I’m so confused why they let is all go this year via waivers…maybe they don’t add much depth but they were a known quantity. Now with them (Mac, beagle, Gadj, joulevi) gone our entire bottom 6 and bottom 3 defense are all new to the team…we’re all out of sorts. No chemistry, no connection. What examples does it set to your farm team if you barely give guys who have bled blue and green for 4 years or more no chance at all…Jasek left, another top center for Utica and you have to wonder if he could help right now on the big club.

 

Flipping Joulevi for another RD….I love Rathbone but it doesn’t take a genius to know we need another LD back if we trade Joulevi…we had him and Brad Hunt as depth…we need penalty killers…just gave all of them away.

 

You look at Hamonic coming back and adamant that he had no idea when he signed his contract that he would have to be vaccinated, another communication break down.

 

I think this entire organization right now is close to mass panic mode. 
 

Thing is until this season I have been giving every inch of support to them (minus a few rants here and there lol) 

 

But now I’m worried how deep the dysfunction goes. I do wonder if Benning is the right GM…I’m still blown away they decided to gut their PK department. I don’t understand the reasons behind it.

 

I think our PP will figure things out, they have talent. I think our PK is a talent based issue, we are putting guys in over their heads there…head scratcher. 
 

I read a really refreshing article recently on Mike Babcock and what he’s up to now. He is back home in Saskatchewan coaching with his sons university team, he’s surrounded himself with family and has in my opinion reflected well on his past issues. It caught me off guard how blunt and honest he was with himself and the situation that happened in Toronto. (I’ll try and find article to link) 

https://edmontonsun.com/sports/hockey/mike-babcock-goes-back-to-school-to-coach-saskatchewan-huskies

 

edit, found it.

 

Anyways, I can see the firing of Green, the interim tag added to Shaw to finish the year. Then bring Babcock in for next season. This may be bold to say but I think Babs would add a no BS point of view to our situation that is sorely needed right now,

 

…Ok end rant lol

 

And always, Go Canucks!

Edited November 12, 2021 by Attila Umbrus

[ilduce39]

Going into a second year of clearly underperforming the team’s talent level might change some tunes around the league.  
 

On its own I’d normally say give him some rope but on the heels of last season I think it’s quickly becoming clear we need a new voice or two behind the bench. 

[eeeeergh]

3 hours ago, AV. said:

This gets lost of so many people.

Green may or may not be a great coach (I don't think he's great), but half of CDC expects him to perform miracles with a team that lacks good construction and composition.  Vancouver's defence is, and has been, one of the worst in the league for many years now.  And the scary thing is, if not for Markstrom before and Demko now, the team would be so much worse.  Take any of the best coaches in the world, or historically, and they wouldn't do much better with the players we ice on the backend. 

Too many of the same fanatics on this board convinced themselves that Brad Shaw and Tucker Poolman would shore things up, that a finished OEL would suddenly turn back the clock five years, that Hamonic would suddenly become a useful top4 defencemen.  Too much hope and not enough reality.

I guess its chicken-egg, but i dont think the roster is anywhere near as bad as those folks say it is. Look at the 06 team AV had - it was  top heavy with an extremely thin Defense. Bieksa, Salo, Ohlund, Mitchell were our only real Defensemen, and thats weaker than the defense group we had in 05. 

Yet in 06 our goals against dropped dramatically, probably because of the system AV coached the team to play. 

Our group this year is far better than AV had in his first year:
OEL, Hughes, Hamonic, Myers, Poolman, with Burroughs and Schenn as #6's is solid on paper.