blame management, blame coach, but also blame this lazy, entitled, soulless core, starting from Horvat/Pettersson/Boeser

[NewbieCanuckFan]

26 minutes ago, GB5 said:

Hughes is a pp specialist and not a lot more at this point.

 

He needs to work on his defense and if I were his coach I would have him watching old tape of Scott Niedermeyer. Nieds could play offense and worried his butt off to get back in position.

Hughes glides back into the d zone after playing offense and getting out of position which is unacceptable.

If I were coach I would've told Benning keep Tanev to use as Hughes partner or I'll leave.  But I guess Poolman is better than a Tanev.

Edited November 12, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[ey40]

Yeah I heard Schmidt and Holtby are doing pretty bad with their respective team. Yeah it definitely is the players to blame.

 

[SergioMomesso]

The biggest problem is Petey. He just can't handle big boy hockey right now. And if he ain't going, neither is Brock.

[MaxVerstappen33]

Nah that's bunk. I don't believe they aren't trying or anything like that. Our top 2 offesive players had wrist injuries. I had a wrist injury that took 2 years to get better. I could barely hold a coffee cup for 6 months 

[tas]

1 hour ago, cuporbust said:

Been watching for the news all morning green is gone. God I hate this owner/ gm right now. 

options for replacing the coach right now are not good, not because of available personnel, but because of circumstance.

 

option a: fire green (and baumer and king), replace him with (presumably) either shaw or cull as interim coach for the rest of the year. an underwhelming proposition.

 

option b: fire benning and green (and their staffs) and do a complete regime change midseason. this is a chaotic and disastrous option, it's too hard to do that kind of hiring process in-season, I'd you'd also like to see what other names come available in the offseason.

 

option c: fire green et al, bring in a new permanent coach, which leads to:

 

c(i):  commit to benning going forward

c(ii): fire benning in the offseason and force the new manager to live with the coach benning hired

c(iii): fire benning in the offseason and replace a coach that's been in the role less than a year

Edited November 12, 2021 by tas

[Ghostsof1915]

BLAME EVERYONE!!!!! 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, EddieVedder said:

Horvat isnt lazy.  

 

Fans should never have tried convincing themselves that Boeser and Hughes are core pieces.  

You bought into the hype generated by nucks media.  

Hughes has been one of our best D this season, his commitment to the defensive side of the game has been notable. And it hasn't hurt his offensive game, despite our struggles as a team. 

 

Boeser? I dunno, his game was fine last season, if not more well rounded, I'm reluctant to write him off. 

 

Hell, I'm reluctant to write any of them off until we get to see what they can do when coached by a coaching staff with more than two competent coaches.

[Kurgom]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

People actually thinking Hughes has been a problem… yeah the only player on this team that can produce offense, other than Miller/Garland is a problem……

If Canucks fans turn on Hughes we deserve to never win a cup. Literally the generational defenseman we've always wanted and now he's getting $&!# when he's still playing like a Norris candidate. Ridiculous. 

[RU SERIOUS]

2 hours ago, Odd. said:

I was probably more excited watching games when we were bottom feeding for a number of years than I am now with a team that's supposed to be good 'on paper'. 

 

When in reality, it's actually not so good on paper..

 

I watch this team, it's like seeing your cheating ex on social media. My blood boils, I get angry quickly, and become so annoyed that my mental health for the rest of the night gets bad. When I woke up and  saw Gadjovich and MacEwen go on waivers, especially the former, I was extremely angry at this organization. Physical, gritty, mean players who play with edge and bring urgency, waived just like that in place for souless guys on the ice like Dowling, Highmore, and Chiasson. Like what? 

 

This management claims its doing one thing, but completely does the opposite. 

 

The fact of the matter is, our team lacks identity. Boeser, Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, I'm sorry, but these guys play with absolutely no urgency. They don't play like they are hungry and want to score and win. They would rather laugh after whistles and have some chitchats with the opposing players while literally being ignored for looking like a bunch of scrubs. 

 

Fire Green. Sure. However, I'm not so sure it's just a coaching issue. I have a feeling the issue is beyond just management, but the core itself. This is the NHL, you can't just rely on skill and speed.  You need heart, grit, physicality, urgency, tenacity, ruggedness, poise, determination, and last but not least, soul. 

 

J.T Miller, Garland, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Hughes.

 

I applaud you guys. Day in, day out, these guys are our best players. 3 of them are our top scorers respectively, and the other two are undoubtedly some of the hardest working hockey players I've ever witnessed. And Podkolzin is literally just 13 games into his career.

 

This team isn't going to do jack $&!# in the playoffs, even if we somehow manage to sneak by. First round exit, 2nd round sweep easily. 

 

1 step forward, 3 steps back. 

 

If we have a performance like that again, I won't be watching a single game for the rest of the season. Because i'll know then we surely aren't making the playoffs. We all have bad games, blowout games, etc etc. Last nights game was something else. 

 

This core isn't built to win.

 

 

Fair comments but you could have saved yourself some time, as there is allready another thread titled " Are we witnessing the greatest assembly of incompatable players ever put together in team history". but in all fairness, we can never have too many post sending the message to ownership - that we're all fed-up with the sad situation Uncle Jim has left us in after 8 long years of failure.

[Maddogy]

People need to stay objective. Overall, the team has great goaltending and competent defence. The problem is the forward group. It is clear that the core forward players are not ready to take the next step yet. J.B. facilitated the Arizona trade during the summer for the core. The core so far is failing. The best thing to do is to stay the course and shine in the NHL draft. 

 

I do agree that Travis Green should be let go not because he is a bad coach. It is time to make a change. Travis means well when he stresses the defence side of the game. 

 

However I do repeat the same warning here. There is a real likelihood that the Canucks fall into the pattern of switching coaches every couple of years like many other teams did. All of the veteran coaches that are currently available were fired by their former teams for substantial reasons. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Maddogy

[86Viking]

@OP, you are bang on. When the Captain says post game they were embarassed...is that not a KEY role of the CAPTAIN to get his teammates revved up!? Or is it not his role or anyone on the teams to go make a big hit, start a fight...oh ya that is right we are the Vancouver Charmins!!

 

That was a pathetically sad effort, Avs were down their #1C too...yet still netted 7, coach should have pulled Demko after 3rd or 4th goal in my opinion. This team has no backbone, no 1 player willing to go out and crash and bang to wake his team up. It is only 1 game, but man that was hard to watch!

 

Hope we can turn things around, but this core seems to be wanting a change behind the bench and maybe with management too? The GM HAS to get CANNED at the same time as the Coach in my opinion. Said GM has had 8 years, we have piss poor PK right now, top players who seem lost or disinterested and a poor group of coaches.

 

Go Canucks at the end of the day but until we see a big overhaul of Management and Coaches this team will likely continue to Flounder like it has for 8 years...

[the_impersonator13]

I am not here to single out players like Bo cause I like him and his passion but.................Watching the "Teams" reaction or lack there of to Dowling getting smacked face first into by the boards by Johnson tells you a lot. Yeah, there is a time and place for fighting in hockey and I don't want to see players hurt but down 3-0 or whatever it was, whoever the 3 players we're standing there should have been in their with their gloves off pounding away. But again, this isn't new the Canucks have been pushed around for 20+ years. 

[Quinn Huges]

3 hours ago, Odd. said:

I was probably more excited watching games when we were bottom feeding for a number of years than I am now with a team that's supposed to be good 'on paper'. 

 

When in reality, it's actually not so good on paper..

 

I watch this team, it's like seeing your cheating ex on social media. My blood boils, I get angry quickly, and become so annoyed that my mental health for the rest of the night gets bad. When I woke up and  saw Gadjovich and MacEwen go on waivers, especially the former, I was extremely angry at this organization. Physical, gritty, mean players who play with edge and bring urgency, waived just like that in place for souless guys on the ice like Dowling, Highmore, and Chiasson. Like what? 

 

This management claims its doing one thing, but completely does the opposite. 

 

The fact of the matter is, our team lacks identity. Boeser, Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, I'm sorry, but these guys play with absolutely no urgency. They don't play like they are hungry and want to score and win. They would rather laugh after whistles and have some chitchats with the opposing players while literally being ignored for looking like a bunch of scrubs. 

 

Fire Green. Sure. However, I'm not so sure it's just a coaching issue. I have a feeling the issue is beyond just management, but the core itself. This is the NHL, you can't just rely on skill and speed.  You need heart, grit, physicality, urgency, tenacity, ruggedness, poise, determination, and last but not least, soul. 

 

J.T Miller, Garland, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Hughes.

 

I applaud you guys. Day in, day out, these guys are our best players. 3 of them are our top scorers respectively, and the other two are undoubtedly some of the hardest working hockey players I've ever witnessed. And Podkolzin is literally just 13 games into his career.

 

This team isn't going to do jack $&!# in the playoffs, even if we somehow manage to sneak by. First round exit, 2nd round sweep easily. 

 

1 step forward, 3 steps back. 

 

If we have a performance like that again, I won't be watching a single game for the rest of the season. Because i'll know then we surely aren't making the playoffs. We all have bad games, blowout games, etc etc. Last nights game was something else. 

 

This core isn't built to win.

 

 

There. There. 

[HOFsedins]

Baffles me that so many people are quiet about Petey. That brutal giveaway early in the game... He just doesnt look like the player we know of. If your going to be 1 of the highest paid players on the team, you have to produce period. 13 games in plus 2 pre season games played. No more excuses.

[Odd.]

22 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

@OP, you are bang on. When the Captain says post game they were embarassed...is that not a KEY role of the CAPTAIN to get his teammates revved up!? Or is it not his role or anyone on the teams to go make a big hit, start a fight...oh ya that is right we are the Vancouver Charmins!!

 

That was a pathetically sad effort, Avs were down their #1C too...yet still netted 7, coach should have pulled Demko after 3rd or 4th goal in my opinion. This team has no backbone, no 1 player willing to go out and crash and bang to wake his team up. It is only 1 game, but man that was hard to watch!

 

Hope we can turn things around, but this core seems to be wanting a change behind the bench and maybe with management too? The GM HAS to get CANNED at the same time as the Coach in my opinion. Said GM has had 8 years, we have piss poor PK right now, top players who seem lost or disinterested and a poor group of coaches.

 

Go Canucks at the end of the day but until we see a big overhaul of Management and Coaches this team will likely continue to Flounder like it has for 8 years...

My concern is that no matter the coach, our core isn’t built for success. Not an ounce of pushback from our top players, they aren’t going to win by just getting away with being skilled. 
 

Petey plays such a perimeter game. He gets trapped too easily, can’t win board battles, and cracks under pressure when challenged. Boeser is super submissive and has literally no pushback in him. He loves to yell at refs over obvious calls that’s as much as that. Gets discouraged far too easily.
 

Horvat has looked very stale lately and is too streaky. He’s great when he’s on his game, but most times he looks disinterested. He’s missing that edge he played with a couple of seasons ago. 

 

The whole team culture needs to change. We need to develop a no bull$&!# attitude, not “oh we’re losing by 5 goals I’m going to go over and have a chat with the goalie and tell him how awesome it is that his team is whoopin our collective butts”.

This submissive attitude needs to stop

Edited November 12, 2021 by Odd.

[Danie_Canuck]

I could be way off base, and lets be clear I am NOT a fan of the Whitecaps front office.  But look how differently the Whitecaps have played under an incredibly passionate coach like Sartini. 

 

I agree our players are playing without heart.  They don't care. Who cares is the culture from front office to coaches down.  

 

I think we find a coach with the passion like Sartini (NOT a Crawford or Torts "passion') but one who gets into the game who also knows where to go hard on players and when to let them enjoy the wins (either games or better special teams plays etc) 

 

Anyway that's my two cents.  Fire coach and get one that can get the team fired up.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, tas said:

options for replacing the coach right now are not good, not because of available personnel, but because of circumstance.

 

option a: fire green (and baumer and king), replace him with (presumably) either shaw or cull as interim coach for the rest of the year. an underwhelming proposition.

 

option b: fire benning and green (and their staffs) and do a complete regime change midseason. this is a chaotic and disastrous option, it's too hard to do that kind of hiring process in-season, I'd you'd also like to see what other names come available in the offseason.

 

option c: fire green et al, bring in a new permanent coach, which leads to:

 

c(i):  commit to benning going forward

c(ii): fire benning in the offseason and force the new manager to live with the coach benning hired

c(iii): fire benning in the offseason and replace a coach that's been in the role less than a year

Option D

 

Hire Jim Rutherford as PoHO and interim GM, fire Benning, Weisbrod, Green and any assistants not named Shaw or Clark, put Shaw in as interim coach, hire a couple of experienced assistant coaches (maybe even a few former head coaches looking for an inside track back in), and do a comprehensive search for a long term GM who can then evaluate and hire his coach in the off-season.

 

Give the players a clear signal they need to go back to earning their job and remove the favouritism and lack of objectivity from management and coaches regarding certain players.

 

Its better than any option you presented IMO.

Edited November 12, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[RU SERIOUS]

1 hour ago, SergioMomesso said:

The biggest problem is Petey. He just can't handle big boy hockey right now. And if he ain't going, neither is Brock.

Great assessment and while I'm still cautiously hopeful he'll turn into a force down the road, fact is that everyone in the league has figured him out and know exactly where he shoots from and how easy it is to knock him off the puck and slow him down.     He needs to adjust his game to get back on track and CAN DO IT but it will take some good coaching to point him in a new direction, as the old road from year one has washed away for good and I don't think green can do it so we might have to wait for our new coach which is coming soon..

Edited November 12, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[GSP*]

1 hour ago, ey40 said:

Yeah I heard Schmidt and Holtby are doing pretty bad with their respective team. Yeah it definitely is the players to blame.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-schmidt-offensive-talent-shutdown-role/

 

So much mismanagement from this organization and coaching staff.

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, Odd. said:

I was probably more excited watching games when we were bottom feeding for a number of years than I am now with a team that's supposed to be good 'on paper'. 

 

When in reality, it's actually not so good on paper..

 

I watch this team, it's like seeing your cheating ex on social media. My blood boils, I get angry quickly, and become so annoyed that my mental health for the rest of the night gets bad. When I woke up and  saw Gadjovich and MacEwen go on waivers, especially the former, I was extremely angry at this organization. Physical, gritty, mean players who play with edge and bring urgency, waived just like that in place for souless guys on the ice like Dowling, Highmore, and Chiasson. Like what? 

 

This management claims its doing one thing, but completely does the opposite. 

 

The fact of the matter is, our team lacks identity. Boeser, Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, I'm sorry, but these guys play with absolutely no urgency. They don't play like they are hungry and want to score and win. They would rather laugh after whistles and have some chitchats with the opposing players while literally being ignored for looking like a bunch of scrubs. 

 

Fire Green. Sure. However, I'm not so sure it's just a coaching issue. I have a feeling the issue is beyond just management, but the core itself. This is the NHL, you can't just rely on skill and speed.  You need heart, grit, physicality, urgency, tenacity, ruggedness, poise, determination, and last but not least, soul. 

 

J.T Miller, Garland, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Hughes.

 

I applaud you guys. Day in, day out, these guys are our best players. 3 of them are our top scorers respectively, and the other two are undoubtedly some of the hardest working hockey players I've ever witnessed. And Podkolzin is literally just 13 games into his career.

 

This team isn't going to do jack $&!# in the playoffs, even if we somehow manage to sneak by. First round exit, 2nd round sweep easily. 

 

1 step forward, 3 steps back. 

 

If we have a performance like that again, I won't be watching a single game for the rest of the season. Because i'll know then we surely aren't making the playoffs. We all have bad games, blowout games, etc etc. Last nights game was something else. 

 

This core isn't built to win.

 

 

I think what’s killing this team right now is Green’s shocking lack of creativity.   While I’m not going to stand here and say that our core is a championship core, what I will say is that good coaching has a monumental impact.  Don’t believe me?  Ask Darryl Sutter’s Calgary Flames and Quennville’s Florida.

 

For the life of me, I don’t understand why Green hasn’t put Hoglander-Miller-Boeser as a line.  The Canucks played their best stretch of hockey Pettersson went down with an injury last season before their Covid outbreak, and the aforementioned line was the one driving the bus.  Boeser had his best season last year.

 

Pettersson-Horvat-Garland

Hoglander-Miller-Boeser 

 

Another option is to put Boeser with Horvat as Boeser was also at his best when playing alongside Horvat pre-Pettersson era. 
 

Miller-Pettersson-Garland

Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser

 

Another option - simply switch Miller and Dickinson around since Dickinson clearly isn’t doing much at center.  Dickinson also had success playing alongside top line players in Dallas and so why not try him with Pettersson?

 

Miller and Horvat are arguably our two best forwards right now and so why not stick them together?

 

Miller-Horvat-Boeser

Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland

Pearson-Dickinson-Hoglander

 

Podkolzin and Garland have some chemistry and so put them with Petey.  This isn’t rocket science. The point I’m trying to make is that Green should have tried a lot of things during training camp and simply didn’t.  He also should have been using basic common sense in trying alternative line combos and he simply hasn’t.  

 

Im also going to throw Benning some criticism here as well because Dickinson has actually been a downgrade from Beagle.....and maybe even Adam Gaudette.  Dickinson can’t score, can’t win face offs, and can’t kill penalties.  He’s basically a bigger and grittier version of Adam Gaudette.