blame management, blame coach, but also blame this lazy, entitled, soulless core, starting from Horvat/Pettersson/Boeser

[wai_lai416]

27 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Weird, but there's a part of me that wishes Benning took a chance on Eichel. 

 

There is a lot of really good young talent on this team and coming up the ranks. With Horvat, Garland, Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Boeser, Rathbone, Podkolzin, Klimovich, Lockwood, Woo - (all in the low to mid-20s).  These may be the guys who will bring a championship to VAN one day, but some of them are still developing and getting used to the NHL. Some still need time to bulk up and become men.  

 

Jack Eichel is right in that age range.  Imagine having a 100% healthy Eichel joining the team next season. Vegas could be very good. 

lol there's 0 chance benning would even consider eichel by gutting this team. he'd be fired before eichel even healthy enough to play 1 game

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

I'm convinced GMJB is only a "development GM".

He's not the guy to bring a team to the cup. He excels in drafting, makes very odd trades and transactions sometimes and doesn't really think deeply about what sort of moves he makes. Especially in terms of the staff he hires.

 

After Willie Desjardins, I'd have thought JB and co. would've looked for a coach with experience to actually be able to guide a young team through ups and downs.

Yet, Benning decides to go for another minor league coach with no experience coaching at the NHL level. I'm not saying rookie coaches can't succeed (look at Jon Cooper), I'm just saying it depends on the situation of the team.

 

It's a bad recipe to have a fresh group of rookies and consecutive noob coaches who are also developing as coaches themselves.

How are they going to guide the young players? Unless the organization is planning on tolerating and waiting for the coach to develop himself, it elongates the process of being a winning team.

 

It was clearly evident that Willie D had many issues because he was growing as an NHL coach himself. He didn't know what to do in the moments we were down and was stubborn in sticking to "his system" that wasn't working (he even admitted that in his last presser). This is the exact same issue right now with TG and a lot of rookie coaches have that need of sticking to their system because it's what they're familiar with, even when it's not working.

 

GMJB's downfall is his own lack of foresight. The ownership was quick to lay the hammer down on Gillis.

Now, it's time for a new manager at the helm after this continuous 8 year cycle.

 

[EP Phone Home]

Ownership would also be one to point the finger at. Linden left because the collective WE (Benning and FA) would not be in favor

of a proper rebuild and you see now teams that have (Detroit LA and Anaheim) ascending up the standings while we are at the bottom. We cut corners and wanted to just make the playoffs where “anything can happen” in frankies words. The players themselves don’t believe in the vision of this team and it shows. If ownership was patient we would’ve still had TL here build a proper winner. He’s not and we aren’t. These are the facts  

Edited November 13, 2021 by EP Phone Home

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

Just now, EP Phone Home said:

Ownership would also be one to point the finger at. Linden left because WE (Benning and FA) would not be in favor

of a proper rebuild and you see now teams that have (Detroit LA and Anaheim) ascending up the standings while we are at the bottom. We cut corners and wanted to just make the playoffs where “anything can happen” in frankies words. The players themselves don’t believe in the vision of this team and it shows. If ownership was patent we would’ve still had TL here build a proper winner. He’s not and we aren’t. These are the facts  

This is spot on. 

 

I hope they realize this and regret it now. It's been 8 years. Nearly a damn decade.

If we stayed the course, who knows how good we could've been by now. 

 

Ownership has no foresight and thought about the quick cash grab. 

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, Bure_of_94 said:

I know Shero and Lombardi were. I would have to think Davidson was as well. They say a GM will usually get to try 2-3 coaches before they get fired. I think when you look at the turnover of failed rosters in here, Aquilini would feel like Benning is trying. 
 

 Benning was handcuffed in the beginning because they were trying to give the Sedins and aging core 1 or 2 last runs. Then all the previous NTCs handcuffed him when it didn’t work out. 
 

 So it all comes down to if Aquilini believes in Benning or not. Does he get one more chance with a new coach? I personally feel that he will because Green was meant to be there to instil work ethic in a young transitioning team. Green has Peaked with this club however and it’s time for a real coach who can coach .500+ hockey in the NHL. 

 

If that fails, I would say that Benning is gone by June of 2023 at the latest. 

 

Handcuffed?

Trevor hired him, then he went to owner and said he could get a winner before Trevor's plan and then Trevor was gone

That is the way i recall it

 

Aqua doesn't seem to want to pay much for management staff and now has 2 years on these guys

I don't think he will be pleased paying double for new coaches and gm's for 2 years, but i think he has removed his rose colored glasses off and 2nd guessing his decisions he supported

[erkayloomeh]

5 hours ago, GB5 said:

I'm still not sold on Hughes as a dependable defenseman and question your assessment that he plays with urgency.

 

Hughes takes a lot of lazy minor penalties because he lacks urgency in defending and doesn't put enough effort in backchecking and overall he is one dimensional and cannot defend his position.

 

I think a good coach could turn this around but imo Hughes still has a lot of growing to do to be a dependable NHL player.

Thing is imo he gives you 100 %. I always find it hard to crap on those types.

Right now when it comes to players the finger pointing starts with EP.  Something wrong there. Either wasn't happy with the contract negotiations or something else.  But this isn't because of his time off.  Seems like attitude to me. 

[erkayloomeh]

3 hours ago, HOFsedins said:

Baffles me that so many people are quiet about Petey. That brutal giveaway early in the game... He just doesnt look like the player we know of. If your going to be 1 of the highest paid players on the team, you have to produce period. 13 games in plus 2 pre season games played. No more excuses.

I agree.  It wasn't just the giveaway it was the la de da attitude after. Something wrong with that fellow.  

[HOFsedins]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

To be fair, the GM is the one that constructs the team. It was up to Benning to construct a winning team by putting together a group of players that could turn the franchise around, and he failed to do so.

Are you saying he hasn't assembled a good enough team? The depth we have this season hasnt been seen in how many years? Miller, Horvat, Garland, Hughes and Demko are all playing their part. What's the excuse for Petterson and Boeser? Heck I could even say OEL and Myers are playing better than both of those 2.  

 

Your right, the GM constructs the team but he also doesn't play for them. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

19 minutes ago, HOFsedins said:

Are you saying he hasn't assembled a good enough team? The depth we have this season hasnt been seen in how many years? Miller, Horvat, Garland, Hughes and Demko are all playing their part. What's the excuse for Petterson and Boeser? Heck I could even say OEL and Myers are playing better than both of those 2.  

 

Your right, the GM constructs the team but he also doesn't play for them. 

He's had years to construct an NHL caliber blueline and has failed to do so, having to rely on trades for bad contracts and overpaying for free agents to fill out the blueline, not to mention our top 6 is as soft as butter and our bottom 6 can't kill a penalty to save their lives. 

 

The team obviously isn't good enough. Maybe if the top guns were going and the special teams were at least average they'd be able to squeak into the playoffs, but that's about it. Every level, from ownership all the way down to the players has failed. Nobody gets a pass. Not ownership, not management, not the coaches, not the players.

[Ballisticsports.]

36 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

I agree.  It wasn't just the giveaway it was the la de da attitude after. Something wrong with that fellow.  

Yes and before he signed his contract did not seem thrilled and said i'll sign with Canucks (Has no choice if in NHL) and then added, after that we will see

As you said signs were there, something is wrong, maybe immaturity? thin skinned? 

Hopefully he gets it together and becomes a dedicated professional to be the best he can be (what he looked like before)

[MrCanuck94]

You're mistaking a lack of confidence with guys not having the will to win.

 

Our whole core has been known to be winners and big game players in their past before coming to Van.

 

IMO, the systems have gotten stale, it's time for a new voice.

[cdgraham]

3 hours ago, Maddogy said:

Tyler Myers won a Calder as well. Big deal. 

Doesn't take anything away from the post. Petterson also broke Pavel bures rookie scoring record. Not mention the comparable names of people's whose record he broke in Sweden.  An infinitely more talented player then Myers. 

 

If your choice is trade petterson it's not smart. 

[cdgraham]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

I would be willing to give this team a new *proven* coach with a track record (Julien/Brudreau) before running our core out of town.

Thank you.

[HOFsedins]

8 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

You're mistaking a lack of confidence with guys not having the will to win.

 

Our whole core has been known to be winners and big game players in their past before coming to Van.

 

IMO, the systems have gotten stale, it's time for a new voice.

Your right, but none have accomplished anything in the big leagues. That is what seperates a AHLer and NHLer.  Alot of players have been winners and big game players in juniors or other leagues but can't replicate it in the big leagues.

 

Yesterday night was surely not having and will to win. There was no push back. No sticking up for a teammate after he gets boarded. If anything, the confidence was getting up there from the past couple games.

 

You might be right about the system, but if these players continue playing uninspired hockey, the system is not going to win games for you.

[*Buzzsaw*]

No.

[MrCanuck94]

3 minutes ago, HOFsedins said:

Your right, but none have accomplished anything in the big leagues. That is what seperates a AHLer and NHLer.  Alot of players have been winners and big game players in juniors or other leagues but can't replicate it in the big leagues.

 

Yesterday night was surely not having and will to win. There was no push back. No sticking up for a teammate after he gets boarded. If anything, the confidence was getting up there from the past couple games.

 

You might be right about the system, but if these players continue playing uninspired hockey, the system is not going to win games for you.

Definitely, lack of pushback has been frustrating to watch. Like Hansen said on the radio today, it's a privilege to play in this league and you shouldn't need the coaches to get you up for games. 

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

I think what’s killing this team right now is Green’s shocking lack of creativity.   While I’m not going to stand here and say that our core is a championship core, what I will say is that good coaching has a monumental impact.  Don’t believe me?  Ask Darryl Sutter’s Calgary Flames and Quennville’s Florida.

 

For the life of me, I don’t understand why Green hasn’t put Hoglander-Miller-Boeser as a line.  The Canucks played their best stretch of hockey Pettersson went down with an injury last season before their Covid outbreak, and the aforementioned line was the one driving the bus.  Boeser had his best season last year.

 

Pettersson-Horvat-Garland

Hoglander-Miller-Boeser 

 

Another option is to put Boeser with Horvat as Boeser was also at his best when playing alongside Horvat pre-Pettersson era. 
 

Miller-Pettersson-Garland

Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser

 

Another option - simply switch Miller and Dickinson around since Dickinson clearly isn’t doing much at center.  Dickinson also had success playing alongside top line players in Dallas and so why not try him with Pettersson?

 

Miller and Horvat are arguably our two best forwards right now and so why not stick them together?

 

Miller-Horvat-Boeser

Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland

Pearson-Dickinson-Hoglander

 

Podkolzin and Garland have some chemistry and so put them with Petey.  This isn’t rocket science. The point I’m trying to make is that Green should have tried a lot of things during training camp and simply didn’t.  He also should have been using basic common sense in trying alternative line combos and he simply hasn’t.  

 

Im also going to throw Benning some criticism here as well because Dickinson has actually been a downgrade from Beagle.....and maybe even Adam Gaudette.  Dickinson can’t score, can’t win face offs, and can’t kill penalties.  He’s basically a bigger and grittier version of Adam Gaudette.
 

 

That makes too much sense.  I was thinking the same. These guys are definitely not rocket scientists.

[EdgarM]

4 hours ago, the_impersonator13 said:

I am not here to single out players like Bo cause I like him and his passion but.................Watching the "Teams" reaction or lack there of to Dowling getting smacked face first into by the boards by Johnson tells you a lot. Yeah, there is a time and place for fighting in hockey and I don't want to see players hurt but down 3-0 or whatever it was, whoever the 3 players we're standing there should have been in their with their gloves off pounding away. But again, this isn't new the Canucks have been pushed around for 20+ years. 

We had Nazzy, then Hank, then Bo. Its how we do. 

[EdgarM]

4 hours ago, Odd. said:

My concern is that no matter the coach, our core isn’t built for success. Not an ounce of pushback from our top players, they aren’t going to win by just getting away with being skilled. 
 

Petey plays such a perimeter game. He gets trapped too easily, can’t win board battles, and cracks under pressure when challenged. Boeser is super submissive and has literally no pushback in him. He loves to yell at refs over obvious calls that’s as much as that. Gets discouraged far too easily.
 

Horvat has looked very stale lately and is too streaky. He’s great when he’s on his game, but most times he looks disinterested. He’s missing that edge he played with a couple of seasons ago. 

 

The whole team culture needs to change. We need to develop a no bull$&!# attitude, not “oh we’re losing by 5 goals I’m going to go over and have a chat with the goalie and tell him how awesome it is that his team is whoopin our collective butts”.

This submissive attitude needs to stop

20+ years of this too.

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, cdgraham said:

I wouldn't call our core entitled or lazy. I think petterson very much wants to win including boeser. 

 

Turning on the teams best players that are in their early 20's is not a good move. Petterson is a Calder winner we have seen what he can do. Boeser runner up. 

 

If fans want to turn on all our players calling them useless etc. which in turn causes them to want to be traded, only to inevitably not get any superior player back, then rinse repeat etc. then maybe we have found the reason why we have no cups. 

 

Good thing management didn't listen to anyone talking trash about the sedins in their early years. 

 

Be patient with these players but let's cut ties with the coach. Even management before the core. 

 

I think it's pretty obvious the amount of skill the core has, and they have good character. We should be trying to win with these guys not running them out of town as if that will make us better. 

"Wanting to Win" and "Winning" are two different things. Just saying.