Did Benning "lose" the Canucks' core players in the 2020 off-season post bubble success?

[Patel Bure]

Did Benning "lose" the Canucks' core players in the 2020 off-season post bubble success?

 

In the Summer of 2020, while "HF" Canucks fans, JD Burke, Thomas Drance, et al, were absolutely livid that the Canucks made the 2nd round and were subsequently made to look like the ass clowns that they truly are, most "true" Canucks fans, Canucks players, coaches, and management were excited that the team had seemingly ended its rebuild and were poised and ready to take the next step.  I was as well.  New arrivals such as Miller, Myers, and Toffoli were all excited at the recent bubble success, and were excited to be a part of a young team that was on the up and up.  I too was excited.  I believed in the Benning plan through and through. A part of the reason why I had a massive falling out with HF, was due to my unwavering belief that Benning had built this team the right way.  Yes, we overpaid on vets, but it was these vets that helped create infrastructure which allowed for our kids to develop both on the ice and off the ice.  The kids that didn't take their development seriously were shot out of cannon into the Pacific Ocean (#ByeByeBenHutton).  Anyways, I digress.

 

The point I'm making is this:   I believed in the Benning plan, and my assumption at the time was that the Canucks would find a way to commit to Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli, and that Demko and Podkolzin would be used as sweeteners to get rid of our bad contracts if it were to come down to that.  Coming off an impressive 18 goal season yet a lacklustre bubble playoffs, I also assumed that Virtanen would be moved for a low 1st or high 2nd and that Toffoli and Boeser would be our top two RW's.

 

I'm probably guessing here, but I get a sense that the players felt this way as well.  Team chemistry was sky high, and the core, with Markstrom and Tanev, had been through battles together and had finally come alive on the other side.  

 

And then the 2020 off-season occurred.

 

Perhaps I'm not so different from Trevor Linden after all.  Like Linden, I was a card carrying member of the Benning-Aqua plan........until I no longer understood the plan.  While Linden had his 'wtf' moment a few years back when we signed Schaller, Roussel, and Beagle instead of letting guys like Gaudette and MacEwen join the big club, I think I may have had my 'wtf' moment in the Summer of 2020........when I realized that I might not be on the same wavelength as Benning and Aqua (Although I still try and support them as much as possible).

 

In my Hindu world, and alternate reality, the Canucks.....

 

1) Keep all three of Markstrom, Toffoli, and Tanev

2) Use Demko and Podkolzin as sweeteners to move our bad contracts in a potential OEL/Garland deal with Arizona

3) Sign some short term UFA's to help address short term needs and make a run. 

4) Move guys like Gaudette and Virtanen.

 

My guess is that this is what the Canucks and Arizona were fighting over back in 2020.   OEL and Garland were on the table, but the Coyotes probably wanted a bit more pieces if they were going to take on 2 years worth of Beagle, Roussel, and Player Name.  

 

Now - maybe I would have been wrong here, but I personally would have made the deal here.  Perhaps it wouldn't have taken both Demko and Podkolzin to entice AZ to take on those two year contracts of Beagle, Roussel, and Player Name, but I would have done it.........provided that they took Sutter and Baertschi as well.

 

The end result being that we would have ultimately kept our 2021 1st.

 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser

xxx-xxx-Garland

Motte-xxx-MacEwen

 

Hughes-Tanev

OEL-Myers

Edler-Stecher

 

Markstrom

xxx

 

Instead, we lost popular locker room guys like Stecher, Markstrom, Toffoli, and Tanev, which may have lead to guys like Miller and Myers wondering as to why they were brought in here.  These moves may have also lead to guys like Horvat, Pettersson, Hughes, etc., wondering as to what direction management was going in.......and why they weren't building on the playoff success that they just had?   

 

So, that's where I currently am as a fan.  I'm always going to support this management group and team and never speak badly about them, but for me, the point of divergence may have come in the 2020 off-season.  Like many of the players on the team (Horvat, Pettersson, Miller, Myers, Hughes, etc.), I assumed that our management was going to build on our unexpected bubble success and was quite disappointed that this didn't happen.   

 

I would have bit on the Arizona deal in 2020 whereas management did not..........for better or for worse.

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Patel Bure

[AV.]

Unfortunately, yes.

[Patel Bure]

9 minutes ago, AV. said:

Unfortunately, yes.

I think it must have been confusing for the core.

 

From 2016-2019 when the Canucks were rebuilding, they kept adding vets. 

 

Finally, in 2020, after having had a breakthrough, management decided not to commit to the core players that had helped them make the dance.  

 

I know that using guys like Demko and Podkolzin as sweeteners wouldn't have been ideal, but Benning was already invested deep into this core consisting of Markstrom, Tanev, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, Miller, Myers, etc.  The locker room was very tight knit........and then, in the blink of an eye, all three of Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli were gone.  

 

In retrospect, I think Benning needed to make that Arizona deal happen in 2020........but he didn't.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Patel Bure

[khay]

Tanev, Edler, and Beagle are three guys that ate up the tough minutes. Especially Tanev and Edler on defence are sorely missed and 4th line is garbage now without Beagle. Can't win faceoffs, can't clear the puck, nothing. Motte and Sutter also ate up hard minutes but they are still with the team, just not able to play.

 

Marky was successfully replaced by Demko. We could've gone with either goalie. Long term, Demko was the right call. But if we are talking about 2-3 years and signed Marky, then yes, we should have dangled Demko to get help elsewhere in the line up.

 

Don't care about Toffoli so much now that we have Garland. You can only have one given the salary cap, and I honestly prefer Garland.

 

The team is lacking balance in the lineup. That balance was destroyed over the last two seasons due to some inferior roster decisions.

 

There were so many people wanting Edler gone. Now he's gone, who is killing penalties now? who is blocking shots? Wouldn't our defence look way better if we had

 

OEL-Myers

QH-Poolman

Edler-Hamonic

 

JB had to find a way to fit Edler's salary. Now it's too late.

 

Hamonic still brings that tough to play against defence but he's just one guy and he's not even on the road trip.

 

Getting scored on 1st in almost every game is a sign that there is something wrong with the roster make up as well as player deployment.

 

At this point, we might as well go run and gun and just forget about defence. Just pray Demko bails us out every night, he's doing that already anyways.

 

Losing 6-5 is better than 2-1. At least it's more fun to watch.

 

 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

Benning made the wrong decisions at the time. Especially with Toffoli.

I think he did what he needed with Markstrom and Tanev at the time although it is bittersweet, but Toffoli was apparently not even offered a contract to come back.

 

He sort of created a team in that bubble run that was giving looks into what this team could actually potentially be and then tore it all apart. It's also all his fault.

Not only the Loui contract but with Roussel, Beagle..etc. We were simply handcuffed.

Who knows, maybe if those contracts are not a concern, then at least Tanev and Toffoli we might've been able to keep. But no, keep overpaying 4th liners.

 

If we have all those contracts and if you think ahead to what you would need to eventually do in terms of resigning free agent/letting go of players, then what was the point of making moves like that? (Acquiring a rental in Toffoli). We weren't contenders. We weren't in the same position as a Tampa or Vegas. He made moves like we were pushing for a cup win that year, but as expected, we fell short.

 

He literally blue-balled us fans.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by PetterssonOrPeterson

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

1 minute ago, khay said:

Tanev, Edler, and Beagle are three guys that ate up the tough minutes. Especially Tanev and Edler on defence are sorely missed and 4th line is garbage now without Beagle. Can't win faceoffs, can't clear the puck, nothing. Motte and Sutter also ate up hard minutes but they are still with the team, just not able to play.

 

Marky was successfully replaced by Demko. We could've gone with either goalie. Long term, Demko was the right call. But if we are talking about 2-3 years and signed Marky, then yes, we should have dangled Demko to get help elsewhere in the line up.

 

Don't care about Toffoli so much now that we have Garland. You can only have one given the salary cap, and I honestly prefer Garland.

 

The team is lacking balance in the lineup. That balance was destroyed over the last two seasons due to some inferior roster decisions.

 

There were so many people wanting Edler gone. Now he's gone, who is killing penalties now? who is blocking shots? Wouldn't our defence look way better if we had

 

OEL-Myers

QH-Poolman

Edler-Hamonic

 

JB had to find a way to fit Edler's salary. Now it's too late.

 

Hamonic still brings that tough to play against defence but he's just one guy and he's not even on the road trip.

 

Getting scored on 1st in almost every game is a sign that there is something wrong with the roster make up as well as player deployment.

 

At this point, we might as well go run and gun and just forget about defence. Just pray Demko bails us out every night, he's doing that already anyways.

 

Losing 6-5 is better than 2-1. At least it's more fun to watch.

 

 

Edler's doing better in LA than OEL is doing here.

[HKSR]

I think the absolute biggest blunder was losing Tanev.  He was really the perfect partner for Hughes.  

[Patel Bure]

4 minutes ago, khay said:

Tanev, Edler, and Beagle are three guys that ate up the tough minutes. Especially Tanev and Edler on defence are sorely missed and 4th line is garbage now without Beagle. Can't win faceoffs, can't clear the puck, nothing. Motte and Sutter also ate up hard minutes but they are still with the team, just not able to play.

 

Marky was successfully replaced by Demko. We could've gone with either goalie. Long term, Demko was the right call. But if we are talking about 2-3 years and signed Marky, then yes, we should have dangled Demko to get help elsewhere in the line up.

 

Don't care about Toffoli so much now that we have Garland. You can only have one given the salary cap, and I honestly prefer Garland.

 

The team is lacking balance in the lineup. That balance was destroyed over the last two seasons due to some inferior roster decisions.

 

There were so many people wanting Edler gone. Now he's gone, who is killing penalties now? who is blocking shots? Wouldn't our defence look way better if we had

 

OEL-Myers

QH-Poolman

Edler-Hamonic

 

JB had to find a way to fit Edler's salary. Now it's too late.

 

Hamonic still brings that tough to play against defence but he's just one guy and he's not even on the road trip.

 

Getting scored on 1st in almost every game is a sign that there is something wrong with the roster make up as well as player deployment.

 

At this point, we might as well go run and gun and just forget about defence. Just pray Demko bails us out every night, he's doing that already anyways.

 

Losing 6-5 is better than 2-1. At least it's more fun to watch.

 

 

I also agree that Demko was more than capable of replacing Markstrom (as time has proven), but the Canucks absolutely needed pieces that they could have used as sweeteners to move bad contracts.   I agree that keeping guys like Demko and Podkolzin was better for the long term health of this organization, but Benning was already in way too deep with this core and he needed to stick with them.   All moving Markstrom, Toffoli, and Tanev did was piss off the core.  

[MaxVerstappen33]

16 minutes ago, AV. said:

Unfortunately, yes.

Quote

Use Demko and Podkolzin as sweeteners

Yes ?

 

You had to go with Demko. And giving up Podz is like giving up the 2021 first.

[MaxVerstappen33]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think the absolute biggest blunder was losing Tanev.  He was really the perfect partner for Hughes.  

And he didn't get a raise. So what happened here ? why

[Patel Bure]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think the absolute biggest blunder was losing Tanev.  He was really the perfect partner for Hughes.  

I think Benning got scared at the term that we would have had to shell out to Tanev, but it's a signing that he should have committed to given how deep Benning was with this core.   

[Pears]

6 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Edler's doing better in LA than OEL is doing here.

One point better doesn’t discount that OEL has been better in almost every other metric. 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Yes ?

 

You had to go with Demko. And giving up Podz is like giving up the 2021 first.

Ideally you would go with Demko since he's the far younger goalie, but the Canucks needed to commit to their current core.  Markstrom was a UFA and so he wouldn't have been able to be used as a sweetener to move bad contracts.  That's why I would have used Demko for this purpose.   Sign Markstrom long term, and then draft another Demko over the coming years.  

[*Buzzsaw*]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think the absolute biggest blunder was losing Tanev.  He was really the perfect partner for Hughes.  

I would not say the perfect partner.... that would be someone who was bigger and younger.

 

But Tanev had the really solid 'Stay at home' defensive skills which are needed to complement Hughes tendency to go all in on his offensive rushes and put himself out of position.  When Tanev was with the team, Hughes was more relaxed and confident because he knew Tanev would be in position behind him and could usually handle any errors.

 

The stupid thing is Tanev was replaced with the more expensive Schmidt, ($1.5 more per year) who was not at all a success as a partner.  (not sure he was ever paired with Hughes)

 

I personally think Tanev could have been signed for the same time frame and for less with Vancouver, and Hughes would have had the defensive mentor he needs.

[*Buzzsaw*]

With all due respect to the original poster, I think he is missing the point.

 

Maybe it was in the cards Marky, Tanev, etc. had to go.

 

But if Benning knew that, then he should have traded them out earlier and got something for them.

 

Marky should have returned a 2nd rounder, Tanev a 3rd rounder... or prospects/players.

 

Instead Benning got nothing.... and the team had to go out and spend draft choices and CAP to sign new players.

 

If he could do that with Burroughs, Kesler, etc. why couldn't he do that with Tanev, Marky, etc.?

 

I have to wonder if Benning was told by Aqualini he had to go all in on making the playoffs and to forget about long term.

 

Which if that was the case, was a huge mistake.  This team was a bubble team at that point, and really had no chance of going deep in the playoffs.

[khay]

31 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Edler's doing better in LA than OEL is doing here.

The right answer is that we need both.

 

They bring different qualities all needed on the backend for the team to ice a balanced roster.

 

[Alflives]

You’re awesome @Patel Bure 

The more I drink; the more your ideas make sense. 

[Patel Bure]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You’re awesome @Patel Bure 

The more I drink; the more your ideas make sense. 

Thanks Alf!

 

You've definitely got the right idea in mind.  

 

Never read my posts sober.  :-p

[MaxVerstappen33]

22 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

 

 

 Tanev, etc. had to go.

 

 

Why ?

[MaxVerstappen33]

11 minutes ago, khay said:

The right answer is that we need both.

 

They bring different qualities all needed on the backend for the team to ice a balanced roster.

 

I suggested trading back for Edler but ppl said his wheels are gone and he's not worth 3.5 just for PK and stuff