Chris12345 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) We didn't have success in the bubble. This is the overrated statement by us fans. They beat Minny....and the Blues. The Blues were on a bender. Edited November 13, 2021 by Chris12345 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2021 No I would rather have Demko and Podkolzin than Markstrom and Toffoli. And it's not even close. At the very least if everyone gets fired we have youth at all positions for the next rebuild. Tanev is the only guy that we are truly missing. It's too bad that as soon as he gets traded he suddenly becomes an ironman. And before anyone says he played the entire 2020 shortened season, yes he technically did but only because he got injured in the last game before the stoppage so the COVID break allowed him to fully heal and be ready for the play in. Without that break he would have missed the last 15 games. OEL and Myers are in the top 10 as far as shutdown D partners are concerned. Hughes is a superstar. Poolman would look great on the 3rd pairing with another big strong stay at home Dman. So ultimately we are missing that partner for Hughes, a 3rd pairing left hand D and either a 3C or a 4C that is a right hand shot and can kill penalties. We have everything else in place really. Green is making this team look much worse than it is. With a real coach we should easily be a playoff team just as we are. 1 3 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Buzzsaw* Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said: Why ? You are quoting me out of context buddy. The actual post was: 'Maybe it was in the cards Marky, Tanev, etc. had to go.' I didn't say they had to go. If Benning wanted to end the rebuild and make a run at the playoffs, then he should have kept both Marky and Tanev. If as seems to be the case now, he wanted to go with a longer term rebuild, then he should have traded them for pieces before their contracts ran out. Personally I would have traded Markstrom earlier in the season for a pick/defenseman/defensive prospects and re-signed Tanev. By not trading Markstrom, Benning backed himself into a corner where he had to either let Marky walk for nothing or trade Demko, who was the long term future. Marky was a good choice if the Canucks wanted to push to win in the next four years. Demko is further away. And Benning also let Tanev walk for nothing... and then had to pay Schmidt $1.5 million more to accomplish less. Edited November 13, 2021 by *Buzzsaw* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: Thanks Alf! You've definitely got the right idea in mind. Never read my posts sober. :-p 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JM_ Posted November 13, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2021 @Patel Bure quick answer? no. If Marky's heart was here he would have taken a reasonable deal. Instead Calgary threw everything his way and he jumped ship. Tanev would have been nice to keep for sure, thats unfortunate but again, Marky leaving was a big part of that. As far as Toffoli goes, thats no big loss. The bubble division was a freak one off and he's come back down to earth where he's always been, which is not that hard to replace. This teams biggest issue is systems, followed by a need for a right handed C and depth D. 1 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 minute ago, JM_ said: @Patel Bure quick answer? no. If Marky's heart was here he would have taken a reasonable deal. Instead Calgary threw everything his way and he jumped ship. Tanev would have been nice to keep for sure, thats unfortunate but again, Marky leaving was a big part of that. As far as Toffoli goes, thats no big loss. The bubble division was a freak one off and he's come back down to earth where he's always been, which is not that hard to replace. This teams biggest issue is systems, followed by a need for a right handed C and depth D. Marky's heart was here but you also have to pay the guy at least reasonably. Ditto for Tanev. Not these goofball two year deals eh? Especially after some of the money and term that we had been throwing towards guys like Myers, Player Name, etc. As far as Toffoli goes, he's always been a decent player, but the guy was flat out thriving playing alongside Miller and Pettersson. Having said that, I do agree with you that our current team systems need a lot of work (as well as a right handed C and depth D). A coaching change did wonders for both Calgary and Florida and so I hope it can have the same galvanizing effect for us. Something isn't right with this Canucks club.........hopefully, it's related to coaching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Patel Bure said: Marky's heart was here but you also have to pay the guy at least reasonably. Ditto for Tanev. Not these goofball two year deals eh? Especially after some of the money and term that we had been throwing towards guys like Myers, Player Name, etc. As far as Toffoli goes, he's always been a decent player, but the guy was flat out thriving playing alongside Miller and Pettersson. Having said that, I do agree with you that our current team systems need a lot of work (as well as a right handed C and depth D). A coaching change did wonders for both Calgary and Florida and so I hope it can have the same galvanizing effect for us. Something isn't right with this Canucks club.........hopefully, it's related to coaching. Maybe our guys need to all go to the bar together, get sh*tfaced, and get into a big brawl? Serious guy bonding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No I would rather have Demko and Podkolzin than Markstrom and Toffoli. And it's not even close. At the very least if everyone gets fired we have youth at all positions for the next rebuild. You might be right (actually, you probably are right), but I'm just wondering if guys like Pettersson, Miller, Myers, Boeser, Horvat, and Hughes see things that same way. While I normally wipe a monkey's ass with what 650 sportsnet thinks, they were reporting some possible rumblings that players were not happy at what had transpired in the 2020 offseason.....and that some players were a bit confused with regards to the apparent change in direction. Remember - you and I might love Podkolzin, but our core players went through the rebuilding battle with guys like Markstrom and Tanev........and then they were unceremoniously punted off a cliff after our most successful season since 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: Marky's heart was here but you also have to pay the guy at least reasonably. Ditto for Tanev. Not these goofball two year deals eh? Especially after some of the money and term that we had been throwing towards guys like Myers, Player Name, etc. As far as Toffoli goes, he's always been a decent player, but the guy was flat out thriving playing alongside Miller and Pettersson. Having said that, I do agree with you that our current team systems need a lot of work (as well as a right handed C and depth D). A coaching change did wonders for both Calgary and Florida and so I hope it can have the same galvanizing effect for us. Something isn't right with this Canucks club.........hopefully, it's related to coaching. Even if Markstrom's heart was here he would have been exposed for the expansion draft after one year. Why would he sign a deal like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Maybe our guys need to all go to the bar together, get sh*tfaced, and get into a big brawl? Serious guy bonding. That's one thing that I envy about Calgary and Edmonton. For their male bonding efforts, they can just go the local farms and chase farm animals in their John Deere's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said: Even if Markstrom's heart was here he would have been exposed for the expansion draft after one year. Why would he sign a deal like that? Exactly. I was in the boat that we should have paid him 6x6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: Exactly. I was in the boat that we should have paid him 6x6. Good chance that was the plan before Demko's bubble performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Good chance that was the plan before Demko's bubble performance. Probably. I'm just thinking now in retrospect, should we have used Demko's bubble performance as leverage to get rid of our bad contracts at that time? Bubble Demko as a sweetener definitely gets your rid of Player Name++. Demko, Podkolzin, Player Name, Sutter, Roussel, Baertschi for OEL, Garland, Kuemper? Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli Pearson-Horvat-Boeser ####-####-Garland. (Hoffman?) Motte-Beagle-MacEwen Hughes-Tanev OEL-Myers Edler-Stecher Markstrom Kuemper 2020 off-season was an off-season in which players were signing heavily discounted 1 year deals. Mike Hoffman expressed an interest in signing with Vancouver since they looked like a team that was trending upwards. Who knows......maybe this core would have had a happier ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: Probably. I'm just thinking now in retrospect, should we have used Demko's bubble performance as leverage to get rid of our bad contracts at that time? Bubble Demko as a sweetener definitely gets your rid of Player Name++. Demko, Podkolzin, Player Name, Sutter, Roussel, Baertschi for OEL, Garland, Kuemper? Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli Pearson-Horvat-Boeser ####-####-Garland. (Hoffman?) Motte-Beagle-MacEwen Hughes-Tanev OEL-Myers Edler-Stecher Markstrom Kuemper 2020 off-season was an off-season in which players were signing heavily discounted 1 year deals. Mike Hoffman expressed an interest in signing with Vancouver since they looked like a team that was trending upwards. Who knows......maybe this core would have had a happier ending. I don't think I would have traded anything to get rid of the bad contracts. They all had only one year remaining. If I had traded Demko I would have tried to get an A prospect or a 1st round pick plus something else. Edited November 13, 2021 by Kevin Biestra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) I'm glad someone brought this up for discussion. I also think @kilgore touched on this earlier today. I've thought about this last season and have been thinking about this a lot given the disappointing start. To me, JB gutted too many necessary pieces that contributed to the bubble success. In many ways, after so much change to get a playoff team, JB didn't see that he HAD the team - or most of it - and got rid of too much. I mean, his hand was forced with Markstrom, and we had to give Demko the net, but still ... Markstrom was a warrior in the locker room as well. His compete was infectious for his teammates. He was heart and soul. Saying that, we had Marky 2.0 in Demko for cheaper. Imo, JB should have found a way to keep Toffoli and Tanev. Easy to say in hindsight , but he underestimated how key these two were. Especially to team chemistry, stabilizing D, scoring, and the locker room. I mean, we finally get another goal scorer in Toffoli and we let him go. Toffoli should be on the team.along WITH the likes of Garland. Even Stecher, a warrior type that left it all on the ice ... each one of those guys were heart and soul. That's where our identity was coming from. Marky, Tanev, Toffoli, Stecher ... guys like that... all key to a certain identity. I honestly believe those losses had a ripple effect on morale and adverse impact on the team. I do believe we can find an identity with this team but it's going to take time. In many ways, we HAD more of the team we were looking for and it slipped from our grasp. Edited November 13, 2021 by Dr. Crossbar . 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 How I miss Tanev and Troy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Patel Bure said: Marky's heart was here but you also have to pay the guy at least reasonably. Ditto for Tanev. Not these goofball two year deals eh? Especially after some of the money and term that we had been throwing towards guys like Myers, Player Name, etc. As far as Toffoli goes, he's always been a decent player, but the guy was flat out thriving playing alongside Miller and Pettersson. Having said that, I do agree with you that our current team systems need a lot of work (as well as a right handed C and depth D). A coaching change did wonders for both Calgary and Florida and so I hope it can have the same galvanizing effect for us. Something isn't right with this Canucks club.........hopefully, it's related to coaching. Miller and Petey were thriving playing with Toffoli. TT is a complete 2 way hockey player that is absolutely money when it matters. We havent come close to replacing him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 2 hours ago, khay said: Tanev, Edler, and Beagle are three guys that ate up the tough minutes. Especially Tanev and Edler on defence are sorely missed and 4th line is garbage now without Beagle. Can't win faceoffs, can't clear the puck, nothing. Motte and Sutter also ate up hard minutes but they are still with the team, just not able to play. Marky was successfully replaced by Demko. We could've gone with either goalie. Long term, Demko was the right call. But if we are talking about 2-3 years and signed Marky, then yes, we should have dangled Demko to get help elsewhere in the line up. Don't care about Toffoli so much now that we have Garland. You can only have one given the salary cap, and I honestly prefer Garland. The team is lacking balance in the lineup. That balance was destroyed over the last two seasons due to some inferior roster decisions. There were so many people wanting Edler gone. Now he's gone, who is killing penalties now? who is blocking shots? Wouldn't our defence look way better if we had OEL-Myers QH-Poolman Edler-Hamonic JB had to find a way to fit Edler's salary. Now it's too late. Hamonic still brings that tough to play against defence but he's just one guy and he's not even on the road trip. Getting scored on 1st in almost every game is a sign that there is something wrong with the roster make up as well as player deployment. At this point, we might as well go run and gun and just forget about defence. Just pray Demko bails us out every night, he's doing that already anyways. Losing 6-5 is better than 2-1. At least it's more fun to watch. Beagle was no longer playing tough minutes at 5v5 - Green actually looks to have sheltered his line. With so few opponents a quick and easy way is to simply look at minutes played against the opponents top-6. He played 30 games that season. In those 30 games they played Edmonton 4 times. McDavid and Draisaitl started the season on separate lines. In those 4 games at 5v5: vs McDavid. Horvat played 33 minutes. Pettersson played 20. Beagle played 6 minutes. vs Draisaitl. 14 minutes for Horvat. 20 for Pettersson and less than 10 for Beagle. The 1st 2 games were on the road. At home Beagle didn't even get a minute per game. The bubble season Beagle's line got caved in and it put considerable stress on goaltending as they were often just playing in Vancouver's end. Green adjusted their matchups last season and kept them away from scoring lines. It put pressure on the top-6 to take on the toughest matchups while also being the only lines to produce. Sutter played a lot with Gaudette - the matchups of that line were sheltered with Green not trusting Gaudette much. At the start of the bubble season Green explained that with Horvat/Petttersson taking steps and wanting to play against the best, he was adjusting Sutter's matchups with the hope that it would allow him to provide some offence. He was initially taking on some of the toughest matchups - Pettersson started his career sheltered but for the team to contend they (Green and Pettersson) agree that he needs to take steps to play C1 vs C1. Both Sutter and Beagle had their roles change with Pettersson / Horvat playing top-6 vs top-6 and Beagle hardly had a role anymore at 5v5. Moving Sutter down a peg and trying to add a 3rd line that can contribute scoring wise made sense - Benning talked about how there's more offence to Dickinson. At the end of last season Horvat also implied that the Canucks' lacked scoring depth (via Lalji on twitter): "In order to win in this league not only your top guys have to score but you need depth in your lineup". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: No I would rather have Demko and Podkolzin than Markstrom and Toffoli. And it's not even close. At the very least if everyone gets fired we have youth at all positions for the next rebuild. Tanev is the only guy that we are truly missing. It's too bad that as soon as he gets traded he suddenly becomes an ironman. And before anyone says he played the entire 2020 shortened season, yes he technically did but only because he got injured in the last game before the stoppage so the COVID break allowed him to fully heal and be ready for the play in. Without that break he would have missed the last 15 games. OEL and Myers are in the top 10 as far as shutdown D partners are concerned. Hughes is a superstar. Poolman would look great on the 3rd pairing with another big strong stay at home Dman. So ultimately we are missing that partner for Hughes, a 3rd pairing left hand D and either a 3C or a 4C that is a right hand shot and can kill penalties. We have everything else in place really. Green is making this team look much worse than it is. With a real coach we should easily be a playoff team just as we are. Solid post, totally agree. That being said, our bubble success is beginning to look more and more like a mirage. It's almost as if the players themselves played beyond the capabilities of our coaching staff at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 3 hours ago, JM_ said: @Patel Bure quick answer? no. If Marky's heart was here he would have taken a reasonable deal. Instead Calgary threw everything his way and he jumped ship. Tanev would have been nice to keep for sure, thats unfortunate but again, Marky leaving was a big part of that. As far as Toffoli goes, thats no big loss. The bubble division was a freak one off and he's come back down to earth where he's always been, which is not that hard to replace. This teams biggest issue is systems, followed by a need for a right handed C and depth D. Marky went for money and term, I'd let him walk again. Demko was the right choice. In retrospect maybe we should have kept Tanev, but I was fine letting him walk. That shortened season was the only season he'd ever been fully healthy, and just barely. I had questions regarding his durability and how his game would age, time will tell. Tofu was always overblown, he was a Boeser replacement brought in to help us try and make the playoffs. We did, and had most of our success in the bubble without him. The cost was worth the experience for our younger players. Not worth fretting over. Totally agree on needs, we miss Sutter in a big way. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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