Trading this core before a new coach has an opportunity to work with them would be a mistake

[rawkdrummer]

Sorry but Green has lost the room.

Aquilini keeps Benning around so he can run the team. 

Remember Linden quitting?

[Melbourne Canuck]

The roster has talent but the coach is failing to get results which is his primary function. The loser excuses that came after the Ducks game says all you need to know about Green. Down 2-0, score a SHG with less than an minute left to tie and lose in OT, yet he says it was a good game? It’s a results business. They’ve lost a heap of one goal games but there’s no question they’re underachieving and that’s on the coach and his staff. Let’s see if an experienced coach can turn these guys around much like Sutter in Calgary. That’s the first step IMO. 

[khay]

3 hours ago, Drakrami said:

In other news... how's Ovechkin 36 years old and still scoring more goals than Pettersson, Boeser and Hughes combined? 

OV is a generational talent. Our guys are not. That doesn't mean our guys are bad players. 

 

[khay]

As I said in another thread and I know it's wild and unpopular, I'd seriously look at trading Miller.

 

I hate to suggest such a thing because he is a power forward who is putting up PPG. He's a first line player who is versatile and can play wing and center.

 

But for this team to go anywhere, it's EP, BB, BH, QH and Demko that needs to lead the team not JT.

 

And, no one has good chemistry with Miller anymore. EP and BB used to but that's gone since last season. Toffoli also had good chemistry with Miller but now he's gone. 

 

I know it doesn't make sense but with JT gone, the other guys are going to have to figure it out and swim or they are going to sink. 2019-20 season was good because the young guys took over the primary scoring roles successfully. JT obviously was instrumental in providing much needed size, speed, and skill as well as faceoffs since Elias couldn't do them well. But at some point, this team started to lean on Miller way too much and far less on the players like EP and BB. And since then, the chemistry disappeared.

 

By trading Miller, we may be able to fill a 3C spot and 3LD spot, two spots that could help us win those 1 goal games immediately.

 

Miller is the leader on this team but I think we need a leader that is calm, who doesn't get overly frustrated, not one that drops an F-bomb so that everyone in the whole stadium can hear.

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

The thing is that we need to know what we have in our players before we comitt to either going forward with this core or blowing it up and starting over, which is why changing up the coaching staff is of the utmost importance right now. Seeing how our young players respond to a new coaching staff will tell us a lot about whether or not this core is salvageable. If they improve with new coaching, then that indicates that coaching is the problem. If they continue to flounder, that would indicate to me that this isn't the group of young player to hitch our wagon to.

 

With that said, the players certainly shouldn't be above criticism right now. This season has been an unmitigated disaster thus far, and the players need to be held accountable for their role in that.

 

Replace Green, Baumer and King ASAP and see what happens.

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, khay said:

As I said in another thread and I know it's wild and unpopular, I'd seriously look at trading Miller.

 

I hate to suggest such a thing because he is a power forward who is putting up PPG. He's a first line player who is versatile and can play wing and center.

 

But for this team to go anywhere, it's EP, BB, BH, QH and Demko that needs to lead the team not JT.

 

And, no one has good chemistry with Miller anymore. EP and BB used to but that's gone since last season. Toffoli also had good chemistry with Miller but now he's gone. 

 

I know it doesn't make sense but with JT gone, the other guys are going to have to figure it out and swim or they are going to sink. 2019-20 season was good because the young guys took over the primary scoring roles successfully. JT obviously was instrumental in providing much needed size, speed, and skill as well as faceoffs since Elias couldn't do them well. But at some point, this team started to lean on Miller way too much and far less on the players like EP and BB. And since then, the chemistry disappeared.

 

By trading Miller, we may be able to fill a 3C spot and 3LD spot, two spots that could help us win those 1 goal games immediately.

 

Miller is the leader on this team but I think we need a leader that is calm, who doesn't get overly frustrated, not one that drops an F-bomb so that everyone in the whole stadium can hear.

 

tbh i think its exactly the opposite of what you want. 

The guys should be frustrated and angry, and it should come out. Being calm while awful is just complacency, which is exactly how many of the players look, and 100% how Green looks in his post game interviews when he justifies our loss b/c we "played hard, but thats a good team over there". 

 

Not only is Miller our leading scorer, he's also one of the few showing that he cares. Lose him and it really is all over. He's probably the 1 untouchable rn imo.

[khay]

47 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

tbh i think its exactly the opposite of what you want. 

The guys should be frustrated and angry, and it should come out. Being calm while awful is just complacency, which is exactly how many of the players look, and 100% how Green looks in his post game interviews when he justifies our loss b/c we "played hard, but thats a good team over there". 

 

Not only is Miller our leading scorer, he's also one of the few showing that he cares. Lose him and it really is all over. He's probably the 1 untouchable rn imo.

Obviously, I can't disagree. 

 

Even as I write that, I know it doesn't make much sense. It's just the gut feeling that I get... that the current core players aren't going to figure it out with an angry guy swearing all the time when things don't go his way.

 

TBH, I used to be that guy who got angry each time things didn't go well. I don't think it rubbed off well on teammates. And I played with an angry guy. He was the best player on the team, so lot of the guys were just careful not to make a mistake to not piss him off. An odd F-bomb may seem like it's directed at a teammate even if you didn't mean it that way and sometimes teammates get intimidated by that guy.

 

Obviously, I didn't play pro sports so it's probably different at that level. 

 

I think the first step is to replace the coach. The new coach gets to re-assess and then we make roster decisions.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by khay

[ShawnAntoski]

Trading any core players before giving this roster a  chance with another coach is ludicrous.

[Drakrami]

Draisaitl on pace for 177 points. Pettersson on pace for 53. Fans overhype our players way too much myself included during Pettersson's first season. Gretzky, McDavid, best player in Canada? all looks to be lol. 

[RU SERIOUS]

8 hours ago, cdgraham said:

Thank you, been saying this for a while. Would make no sense to trade the core players. 

 

People complain about how we haven't been good for 8 years but do they know what would happen if we traded our best players? 

 

We have an unprecedented amount of young talent it's taken years to accumulate, giving up on these players right now would be outrageous. 

 

Definitely need to try them with new coach before anything. 

I would have to agree - for now.   However when our new coach is place it's very likely one or two of our so called stars might be moved - starting with Petterson if he continues to play like a 4th line AHL player.  However, if he finds his game again then he might be worth hanging onto to see if he's worth keeping.  Ditto for Boeser who has all but dried up this year!     Unbelieveable mess we're in thanks to Green & Uncle Jim !

[RU SERIOUS]

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

The thing is that we need to know what we have in our players before we comitt to either going forward with this core or blowing it up and starting over, which is why changing up the coaching staff is of the utmost importance right now. Seeing how our young players respond to a new coaching staff will tell us a lot about whether or not this core is salvageable. If they improve with new coaching, then that indicates that coaching is the problem. If they continue to flounder, that would indicate to me that this isn't the group of young player to hitch our wagon to.

 

With that said, the players certainly shouldn't be above criticism right now. This season has been an unmitigated disaster thus far, and the players need to be held accountable for their role in that.

 

Replace Green, Baumer and King ASAP and see what happens.

No thinking required on that.  Those three Amigos have sewn their seeds and should have never been allowed to set foot in the locker room this year.    That's on Jim B. for resigning them.  That was a fatal mistake and which will cost him his job soon!

[JM_]

12 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think we're stuck with Trav for a little while yet.  They just re-signed him to a contract and Benning really seems to believe in him - and the owners really seem to believe in Benning's vision.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Benning make another trade. I just hope he doesn't get desperate enough that he trades the 2022 1st. 

 

They might sacrifice Baumgartner to turn down the heat.

I'm hoping a trade like that has to go through Aqua, and he rejects it. That one scares me too.

[JM_]

5 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Draisaitl on pace for 177 points. Pettersson on pace for 53. Fans overhype our players way too much myself included during Pettersson's first season. Gretzky, McDavid, best player in Canada? all looks to be lol. 

what does this have to do with anything particularly relevant to us? he's going to out score just about everyone on every team.

[Nucker 67]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I'm hoping a trade like that has to go through Aqua, and he rejects it. That one scares me too.

It looks like if the Canucks keep up this effort of play, they might be a lottery team. They're one of the few teams that are still under .500, so they could get another Top 10 pick. Next years draft is supposed to be good. 

 

Of course, there's a lot of hockey left to play, and they could still turn it around, but I don't think they do that under Green. 

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

All those jumping on Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Miller, etc. should hold their horses.

 

These guys have only had the opportunity to work with one coach.

 

They all arrived on the team after being under a different coaching environment and at that point showed huge enthusiasm and set the league on fire... and only when Green put the dead harness of his system on them did they start to go downhill.

 

As others have said before, 'If one player is in a slump, its on him.  If the team is in a slump its on the coach.'

 

Green has failed to get the best out of these players... its time to let someone else have a chance to turn the team around.

 

Lets remember the example of Edmonton and what getting Tippet and a new GM in place has done.

 

They are still the same basic offensive core as when they were the laughing stock of the league.

 

A few pieces on defense and a new coach has made a huge difference.

 

Same can be said of the Lames with Sutter.

 

 

Lames in Sutter.   More like Markstrom ... and the rest fell into place.   Sure Sutter maybe has them accountable to each other, but it's Markstrom more then anything else. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It looks like if the Canucks keep up this effort of play, they might be a lottery team. They're one of the few teams that are still under .500, so they could get another Top 10 pick. Next years draft is supposed to be good. 

 

Of course, there's a lot of hockey left to play, and they could still turn it around, but I don't think they do that under Green. 

there are a lot of C and RHD options all over the top 2/3 of the next draft, it would be really stupid to trade that pick at this time.

 

I've decided to give up on this year, its not worth the constant angst. Just going to enjoy the individual efforts and maybe start streaming the baby Canucks.

 

[Nucker 67]

In years past, there were at least 1 or 2 players we could complain about, why is Loui still on the team? Why do they keep playing Roussel? When is Jake finally going to get it? etc. But this year there are no weak links per say. There are good players throughout this roster.  Saying we need  #3C or a #2RD is fine, but that won't change the results much. It starts with the coach and his plan. Green's plan is flawed and whatever he's been trying for years, hasn't worked. Time to move on. 

[Dazzle]

What a waste of roster talent to have a coach who is good at praising another team, without being able to uplift his own.

 

Did he really just say "that's a good team over there?"

 

I missed the last game, but I think I am going to not watch for a while until the team figures out their problems. Green is a major problem, and so is Benning purely for extending some coaches that never should have been extended.

 

 

[-DLC-]

As much as I love Honey Badger, he worked mostly under AV here and so he may not have felt the same way as this roster.  He also had a coach ranting at him on the bench, to the point of poking at him.   But he was one of those guys who brought energy for sure and I do totally respect his take and his honesty.  

 

I still feel like it's a coach who has to find a way to get his players ready and if an entire team is struggling (not just individuals), that points in his direction.  

 

Petey has to get going but maybe he's being overcoached?   Just tell him to go out there and score...the x and o's don't apply to a guy whose on ice vision is likely much greater than his coach's.  I see the reactions on the bench and it's very much a "what the hell are you talking about?" look that I'm seeing.  These guys have skills and talents that maybe are greater than Green's (and his assistant's) coaching ability?  And I feel that maybe they've checked out in relation to him/them, which we're seeing carry over onto the ice.  

 

I see desperation and frustration with Green.  I'm just not sure he has the ability to coach this level of play/ers because they've shown what they're capable of.  Then they fall apart under his lead?

 

 

[Kelly Green]

The biggest problem with Green's systems is other teams figured it out years ago and they know what Canucks are doing before they do it.  Having success with this now takes so much energy that the team has completely burnt out 14 games into the season.

 

I don't think they quit on the coaches I think they outgrew them a long time ago, save Shaw and Ian Clark and replace the rest with anyone at this point before the injuries pile up