For those who say it's been 8 years of Benning...

[ShawnAntoski]

8 hours ago, dougieL said:

I'm not suggesting that we should have traded the Sedins. However, we didn't have to trade picks for players in order to try to build a competitive team around them. We could have kept them and still rebuilt by trading away players for picks, or at least not trading picks for players.

Good point; but picks are the asset, JB seems to have that has any values cause the players in the system/roster either have a depressed value or a high salary with trade restrictions.   

[Chris12345]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

 

 

This is all garbage lol

I'm not sure I follow it myself.

 

Benning hasn't had 8 years behind the wheel because 22 and 33 were there for 3 or 4?

 

It's ok to suck because 22 and 33 were there?

 

Regardless of strategy the team has sucked and Benning has been there for 8 years.

[ShawnAntoski]

38 minutes ago, lmm said:

if you did a poll, I wonder how many GMs in the league, ( or not in the league) would sign on for that plan?

Note that Joe Thornton is no longer in San Jose and Corry Perry isn't in Anahiem

Didn't they deserve another run with those clubs?

Kind of ironic that management types talk about putting players in a position to succeed, and yet...

Vancouver is a hockey market starving for heroes & trophies, whereas, those teams you mentioned are markets where hockey is not #1 and they don't have local media schills that PR's the teams talking points.  One context, to consider is the GM's of both team: Murray & Lombardi; both long time GM's that have had a long track record of success and good chance, there was a mutual understanding that it is time for the team to assembly a new.   Anaheims' new core is looking pretty good; but Murray is out as there GM.

 

Also, with the Sedins, the one factor that made it really hard to trade them (outside of the fanbase) was - they were a package deal.

[-SN-]

Yes it's Linden's fault the Canucks are 5-9-2 in 2021. Ok. 

[ShawnAntoski]

40 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

Trevor did it because he was told to do it.

Not sure, if agree ?

 

Anyways, trading the Sedins are a package deal and JB being a rookie GM, with a (still) propensity to over value the incoming player - would probably had to sweeten his side for a team to take on salary & two aging (somewhat) productive players.  It wasn't an easy trade to make perhaps if the Canucks, had a long tenured GM - it might had been a different story ?

Edited November 15, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[lmm]

11 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Jim was the one who clearly stated that this team could be turned around quickly. He was 100% against doing a proper rebuild.  Plus, every decision he has made mirrored that attitude.

That is all water under the bridge. What we see is what we get. 

 

The lack of vision from the owners is the problem.

Here is where I disagree,

the owner had a very sound vision,

provided you believe in Fairy Godmothers, Elves that make shoes in the middle of the night and the powers of Jimbledor

[combover]

9 hours ago, dougieL said:

I have heard (not necessarily here) people say that we haven't rebuilt properly or that it's been 8 years of mediocrity under the Benning regime.

 

People are forgetting that for the 2014-15 to 2017-18 seasons, Linden said publicly that it would be unfair to the Sedins to rebuild (the articles can be easily found on Google). In these seasons, we signed Erickson, traded for Gudbranson, traded picks for players, and traded for and re-signed Sutter, among other moves.

 

Only AFTER the Sedins retired did Linden start pushing the proper rebuild. First off, the hypocrisy of this pivot is stunning and not acknowledged enough. Him quitting over the owners not buying into this vision is ludicrous considering his refusal to rebuild while the Sedins were clearly done (combined 14m cap hit, neither exceeded 60pts in any of the last 3 seasons of their career).

 

Second, it is difficult to imagine that the Canucks fan base would have the patience for a full rebuild that would start in the 2018-19 season. If a proper rebuild takes 5 years, this season AND next season might still well be a lottery seasons. We would essentially lose the primes of Demko, Horvat, and part of Boeser's, if they even remained with us through this hypothetical rebuild. 

 

With the drafting of Hughes and the anticipation of Pettersson becoming a quality player, along with the pain of the previous 3 seasons, I could see why the owners wanted Benning to accelerate the process.

 

So no, the rebuild was not done properly, but it is not all on Benning. Sure, Benning has made some questionable moves, but which GM hasn't? The owners, along with Linden, have to bear the brunt of the blame for the overall lack of direction.

 

 

EXCUSES!! 

He HAS been the gm for 8 seasons 

he was the one that said” we have a window to win” in 2014 

Sure put some blame on the guy (linden ) that saw this coming spoke  out and got fired.

hiring linden unfortunatly was a PR move on the owners  part anyway.

Ok so that leaves the two roots of the issues 

JB and FA one can be easily removed one can’t. 
he’s had his chance to do what he said a “quick turn “ around developing in a “winning environment “ he hasn’t achieved any of him mission statements. He’s “ run out of time” 

So the players can’t use pathetic excuses for poor performance but the crappy GM keeps getting free passes. 

times up no more excuses #FIREBENNING 

 

 

 

[whysoserious]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

And I’m saying they kind of diid rebuild during the tail end of the Sedin era. They traded away Kesler, Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, and got a lot younger.

 

Bärtschi - 22 yrs old

Vey - 22 yrs old

Etem - 23 yrs old

Sbisa - 25 yrs old

Granlund - 22 yrs old

Gudbrandson - 24 yrs old

Goldobin - 20 yrs old

Stecher - 22 yrs old

Pouliot - 23 yrs old

Leipsic - 23 yrs old

Burmistrov - 25 yrs old

 

All these players under 25; Benning acquired that were suppose to be the next wave of our core players. 

 

This list of players should tell you how terrible Benning has been

[Provost]

48 minutes ago, -SN- said:

Yes it's Linden's fault the Canucks are 5-9-2 in 2021. Ok. 

Well I guess the "It is still all MG's fault" has gotten too silly for even the most diehard posters here so there needs to be another scapegoat.

 

[lmm]

56 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

So, we wonder why we are in such a mess

 

When other teams are trading away aging stars, we are letting them walk away

 

Hank Sedin

Daniel Sedin

Chris Tanev

Alex Edler

Jacob Markstrom

 

All these players were developed, by the Canucks and all walked away, with absolutely no asset recovery.

 

Ask your self why? Ask yourself, what asset would have come back

 

Then ask yourself, why you do not understand, why we are having so much trouble rebuilding

 

This is where the problem lies

 

Each, would have brought back multiple assets.............

 

The trouble was, and is, that NTC were given, and players were given god like status, even though they had never won anything.

 

IMO, 3 of the 5 would have brought back blue chip prospects and 1st's, the other 1st's at the very least..........

 

That is equivalent to an additional 8 -1st round picks, plus our own picks would have been much higher, because we would have fallen further

 

So, because of our pride, foolishness and greed, we never did what was needed.............and here we are

 

Why, because of our fandom, our owner, and the hockey people he surrounded himself with

 

You can look at Ottawa, New Jersey, Anaheim, and LA, as once they committed to their rebuilds, they have moved faster

 

When in actual fact, we tried to come out of our rebuild early, and look where we are........

 

it  has cost us assets and time

 

 

 

 

I mostly agree with this

This team, ( the entire Benning era) reminds me of Nonis 2006

in 2006 Nonis traded picks 2-4-5 for Carney, Weirnrich, and Brown

And still missed the playoffs

 

I do agree that the fans are part of the problem, but not in the way you  describe

I saw a post today, where the fan said  "I understood why JB signed LE"

which is to say the fan supported the deal.

I have understood what Jim was doing on many occasions, but disagreed with the move. 

And that is why I have such a stunning collections of "bagfaces" and "Louis"

Its funny that the media say things like Vancouver has passionate and knowledgeable fans

but what I hear mostly are passionate and compassionate fans

Passionate - yes

Compassionate - as in buying into the Sedins "Deserving" another run

but knowledgeable? they mostly repeat whatever the GM says

whether its Gillis saying "Moving goalposts"

or Benning saying "Age Gap", "Retool on the fly", "Fast turn around", or "Character guy"

the fans in Vancouver have an overwhelming desire to feel knowledgeable and to feel that they are on the same page with management

that is why the "Age gap" flew and why fans still say, "I understood why JB signed LE"

I understood why Jim signed LE, but it is a different understanding than most

I understood that Jim "Signed high", not taking into account the players previous surroundings, not taking into account the LE was propped up by Bergeron and the Boston system, and Gagner used as a PP specialist and Gudbranson propped up by Mitchell and Campbell, and Jim expected them to lead this team to the promise land.

 

One of the most telling things Jim said in his first interview is, "I think we can turn this team around quickly"

that is the crux of most of Jim's mistakes

 

But back to the fans,

what if Jim, Trevor, Steve Y, Ken Holland, Mike Gillis came in and said, "this team needs to rebuild ", in 2014, I think the fans would have bought into that as well.

Not because they "understood" but because they like to think they "understand"

[DrJockitch]

I see the summary of this is Benning was hired to:

1.  Give the Sedin's a last Hurrah but failed miserably.

2.  Rebuild but is failing miserably.

Common theme here, failed miserably.

Edited November 15, 2021 by DrJockitch

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I stand by my previous statement.  End of Sept we and much of the hockey world touted our roster as one of the deepest we've seen since 2012 in Vancouver.  We were excited.  Then the season started and we see the EXACT same coaching issues and development problems we've seen since Green started.

 

Same zone entries.

Same defensive lapses

same PP issues.

Same ice time problems for younger and more energetic players

Success and effort are not rewarded

Buying in to a failing system is rewarded

Now the PK is utter garbage as well.

 

Benning has actually done passably well as GM.  His signings and AAV associated to them have gotten far better.  His pro scouting seems to be doing much better as well.  His drafting speaks for itself and ya, after 8 years it's beyond frustrating to see us STILL here but after Linden left it was Benning pure and simple.  Since then we've seen some pretty decent signings, trades and effort put towards the organization and on ice product but.....

 

Same coach

 

If things don't change start bringin in the Hunters slowly as president and assistant GM or something.  Transition Benning in to purely scouting for a few seasons if he is willing and don't let a new GM turf the youth we have

Hunters would be welcome 100%.   There really isn't a player on the team like how they played.   Would be welcome can see it being a short list of guys they'd want to keep.    Myers, OEL,  Miller, Garland ... maybe Podz and Hogs.   That's about it.  

Edited November 15, 2021 by IBatch

[shiznak]

5 hours ago, Josepho said:

You do not have to pay significantly (in term or AAV) for players to fill up your roster. There are so many counterexamples to this.

 

Also, why would rebuilding with the Sedins have been pointless? Detroit did it with Zetterberg, the Rangers did it with Lundqvist, the Ducks did it with Getzlaf. What's pointless is trading assets and picks for losers like Gudbranson.

Detroit is still re-rebuilding after Zetterberg retired. The Rangers went out on the open market and paid 10M for a winger, sold young assets  for a number one defensemen and traded for several reclamation projects from other teams (ie Strome, Fox, DeAngelo, Howden). Aside for this hot start to the season, the Ducks have been awful. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by shiznak

[shiznak]

6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Any GM who looked at any of those guys as potential core players should have been immediately punted into the core of the sun.

None of them turned out well for us, but you look around the league. There are plenty of cases where a player who was shunned by his former club, turned out to be a pretty good player for his new club.

Edited November 15, 2021 by shiznak

[Guitargoalie]

I think Jim Benning has done a good job. Yes he over paid on a few players, but in reality, those players under performed more than anything. They were still good players at the time of signing. They're in the same situation right now with Pettersson under performing. You can't exactly blame a GM when we're losing due to not being able to score on the PP....when the players on our PP are more than capable of doing it.

 

If anything, the blame should be on the players under performing, and then also the coaching staff failing to come up with successful lines/strategies to win games.  I understand the team isn't using its cap space efficiently, but the majority of teams arent either, its just that the top teams have players that are actually producing as they should be.

[Josepho]

10 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Detroit is still re-rebuilding after Zetterberg retired. The Rangers went out on the open market and paid 10M for a winger, sold young assets  for a number one defensemen and traded for several reclamation projects from other teams (ie Strome, Fox, DeAngelo, Howden). Aside for this hot start to the season, the Ducks have been awful. 

I don't see what your point is here. I'm not saying that rebuilding while your franchise players are still on the team will equate to automatic success, I'm saying you can steer your franchise in a better direction while those players are still on the team. I can guarantee you the Rangers/Ducks/Wings would be in a worse position if they tried to sign Player Name types while those players were still playing. 

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, DSVII said:

Not directed at you OP, but I'll see this hypocrisy and raise you the double standard where people claim what the Leafs and Oilers did was perpetual decade long rebuilds to justify why Benning needs 8 years, when they too tried to honestly make playoffs with their rosters (Leafs for instance, began their latest rebuild iteration in 2014).

In fairness, in their 10 year spans vs ours, how many top 5 picks did the Leafs/Oilers get vs the Canucks.  As well as extra secondary 1st round picks.

 

We somehow missed the boat on every possible draft whereas the Leafs and Oilers were seemingly very lucky drafting higher than 5th when it mattered

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Hunters would be welcome 100%.   There really isn't a player on the team like how they played.   Would be welcome can see it being a short list of guys they'd want to keep.    Myers, OEL,  Miller, Garland ... maybe Podz and Hogs.   That's about it.  

I'd LOVE to see the Hunters find their way in to the Organization.

 

Unsure what it would take though but that whole family/organization knows exactly what it takes to find and evaluate talent as well as put a solid on ice product of quality for the fans to enjoy

[Warhippy]

35 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Aside for this hot start to the season, the Ducks have been awful. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

26 minutes ago, Guitargoalie said:

Yes he over paid on a few players, but in reality, those players under performed more than anything. They were still good players at the time of signing. They're in the same situation right now with Pettersson under performing. You can't exactly blame a GM when we're losing due to not being able to score on the PP....when the players on our PP are more than capable of doing it.

So....fire Green you're saying?