For those who say it's been 8 years of Benning...

[DS4quality]

I was hopeful at the beginning of last season,  then I got angry. Then I saw a glimpse of hope this season now I've gone beyond angry to finding the whole situation comical 

[shiznak]

15 minutes ago, Josepho said:

I don't see what your point is here. I'm not saying that rebuilding while your franchise players are still on the team will equate to automatic success, I'm saying you can steer your franchise in a better direction while those players are still on the team. I can guarantee you the Rangers/Ducks/Wings would be in a worse position if they tried to sign Player Name types while those players were still playing. 

Detroit signed Green (technically) for 5 yrs. The Ducks re-signed Adam Henrique for 5m+. Rangers sped up their rebuild and signed Panarin on the open market and traded one of their first and Pionk for Trouba, which is looking like a terrible deal.

[kanucks25]

If your best argument is "other teams suck too" you need higher standards.

 

Ridiculous lol

[shiznak]

34 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

If your best argument is "other teams suck too" you need higher standards.

 

Ridiculous lol

I never claim the Canucks were a good team, even after all these trades Benning made to speed up the rebuild. I was never a fan of the Miller trade or OEL trade. Getting Beagle and Roussel was not  necessary. None of these trades/signings were going to put us over the top as contenders.
 

People said they improved the team from last season. But really have they? Our achilles heel has always been our defence. OEL has been alright, but is he that much of an improvement over Edler? Especially being paid 3m+ more? Schmidt was a let down here, but I’d rather have him playing in our top 4, playing against tougher opponents than Poolman. Myers and Hamonic, are pretty much what you see is what you get. They really do nothing special. Hughes is Hughes. He gets you points, but he’s still a liability in his own end, getting caught out of position and losing puck battles. 
 

The forward group should be better, but it’s hard for them to do anything when half the time they’re hemmed in their own zone, because as a group, they can’t retrieve the puck. 
 

The original arguments was they should have started the rebuild earlier on with the Sedins. When, they sorta did, acquiring younger talents through trades. Yes, they traded away picks, but 2nd/3rd round picks are damn overrated on these boards. When the chances of that pick becoming a serviceable NHL is less than 25%.

Edited November 15, 2021 by shiznak

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Guitargoalie said:

I think Jim Benning has done a good job. Yes he over paid on a few players, but in reality, those players under performed more than anything. They were still good players at the time of signing. They're in the same situation right now with Pettersson under performing. You can't exactly blame a GM when we're losing due to not being able to score on the PP....when the players on our PP are more than capable of doing it.

 

If anything, the blame should be on the players under performing, and then also the coaching staff failing to come up with successful lines/strategies to win games.  I understand the team isn't using its cap space efficiently, but the majority of teams arent either, its just that the top teams have players that are actually producing as they should be.

I don't know 2 playoff appearances in, what now looks to be, 8 years and finishing near the bottom most of those years.

 

I can't think of reason how that can be a good job especially when other teams in the Canucks division have rebuilt much later (i.e Ducks, Sharks) seem to have surpassed the Canucks 

[MaxVerstappen33]

15 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, trading the Sedins' would had caused a riot in this city; and Trevor did it to save the city.

In an ideal world, we would have drafted players like Petey and Boeser 5-6 years earlier and the Sedins could have played on the second line until retirement

[MaxVerstappen33]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

I never claim the Canucks were a good team, even after all these trades Benning made to speed up the rebuild. I was never a fan of the Miller trade or OEL trade. Getting Beagle and Roussel was not  necessary. None of these trades/signings were going to put us over the top as contenders.
 

 

Presidents trophy winners ? hell no. 2006 Edmonton Oilers run ? Maybe. That's why Benning keeps trying to make the playoffs.

[Mustard Tiger]

Almost every other franchise out there ships out good players for good value prior to them walking in FA or if they need to accelerate the rebuild. We are the only team it seems who hang onto every good player till they are no longer good, And have negative value. This is because of aqua's clear agenda to the " Once a canuck, Always a canuck " , " Character guys " , " Great in the community " being prioritized over winning. They don't even want guys hitting or fighting apparently, Off to the waiver wire you go!

Everybody knows what a stale voice vs a new voice can do to a locker room. As for JB.. I like the trade value he has brought to our roster via drafting, I'd actually keep him as president, Get a new GM and coaching staff. I guess i'm just not super keen like most to let a new gm have free rein on the roster. We have alot of young valuable pieces. Prime candidate for a re-tool. You know he will be looking to make his stamp on the team, After all years of disappointment. Although we need change, I'm not looking to flip early 20 year olds for late 20's because they are in there prime. That how we narrow any window, End up with big dollar deals on guys over 30, And have no good young talent in the system as we would probably become buyers at the deadlines, Spending 1st & 2nds on pearson level guys for a " run ".

It's been a long time, It sucks. But all our best players not named miller / OEL are not even in their prime years.. 
I don't know, I guess i just have all the time in the world, Not a big deal if we win or suck as i'm going to watch regardless lol
Just remember it's only an entertainment sport, Is it worth getting worked up over something you have no control over? For me, Nahh

[ShawnAntoski]

30 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

In an ideal world, we would have drafted players like Petey and Boeser 5-6 years earlier and the Sedins could have played on the second line until retirement

Yeah, if Captain Kirk was the goalie in 2011 - good chance, Nucks take that series despite the Boston goonery.

 

Nothing in this world is ideal and imposing it only leads to a bad place.

[ShawnAntoski]

4 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Almost every other franchise out there ships out good players for good value prior to them walking in FA or if they need to accelerate the rebuild. We are the only team it seems who hang onto every good player till they are no longer good, And have negative value. This is because of aqua's clear agenda to the " Once a canuck, Always a canuck " , " Character guys " , " Great in the community " being prioritized over winning. They don't even want guys hitting or fighting apparently, Off to the waiver wire you go!

Everybody knows what a stale voice vs a new voice can do to a locker room. As for JB.. I like the trade value he has brought to our roster via drafting, I'd actually keep him as president, Get a new GM and coaching staff. I guess i'm just not super keen like most to let a new gm have free rein on the roster. We have alot of young valuable pieces. Prime candidate for a re-tool. You know he will be looking to make his stamp on the team, After all years of disappointment. Although we need change, I'm not looking to flip early 20 year olds for late 20's because they are in there prime. That how we narrow any window, End up with big dollar deals on guys over 30, And have no good young talent in the system as we would probably become buyers at the deadlines, Spending 1st & 2nds on pearson level guys for a " run ".

It's been a long time, It sucks. But all our best players not named miller / OEL are not even in their prime years.. 
I don't know, I guess i just have all the time in the world, Not a big deal if we win or suck as i'm going to watch regardless lol
Just remember it's only an entertainment sport, Is it worth getting worked up over something you have no control over? For me, Nahh

Some of your points are quite evident -  right now and the on ice product just further confirms the clueless inability of the staff as being NHL coaches. 

 

As for JB, I still think he is an NHL level executive but not the top dog (same goes for Weisbrod); and Linden would had been nice (if allowed to continue), due to his business background of building a brand from the bottom up - but that ship has sailed.   

 

It is all on Aquaman now, and how re builds his crew from here; but Greens' time has come to an end cause he has no clue and everything he does only makes things worse - imo.   Like I stated, this situation will determine who stays or go; and as a fan, I can see a bright side to all of this - but it will depend on the quality of the decisions.

[alt kilgore]

“The solution is to find your way out of it and do your best, but I didn’t see a way we could emerge from this intact. I was watching a lot of the things we had done that gave us a competitive advantage go out the window, and I made my position clear. And in professional sports, 90 per cent of the time, as Laurence likes to say, you get rid of your problem. I was the problem and I deserved to go because I disagreed with certain things.”

Asked if Tortorella’s hiring was the beginning of the end for him, Gillis said: “When I couldn’t be influential in the things I thought I should be influential in, I guess so."

History repeats itself.  The Aquilinis screwed the team around then by meddling, and they’ve never stopped. This real estate family decided for themselves what coach the team needed then over the objections of the freekin GM they hired to make those decisions!   The only difference is Gillis had the balls to call him out. And be fired.  
You don’t know why Benning hasn’t been let go yet?  Why would Francesco fire a GM who is happy just to have the job and will follow any directive these know-it-all  property managers have? 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Its hard to find anyone who opposes doing a full rebuild. The problem with full rebuilds is that for every successful one, there is a failed one. A full rebuild is far from a guarantee of success unfortunately.  Look at Edmonton. Look at the Islanders. 

 

Our owners aren't the only meddlers either. Look at Edm. The Edm owner intervened so that they would pick yakupov. The hockey ppl wanted to go off the board

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Its hard to find anyone who opposes doing a full rebuild. The problem with full rebuilds is that for every successful one, there is a failed one. A full rebuild is far from a guarantee of success unfortunately.  Look at Edmonton. Look at the Islanders. 

 

Our owners aren't the only meddlers either. Look at Edm. The Edm owner intervened so that they would pick yakupov. The hockey ppl wanted to go off the board

What about a soft rebuild. This team is still full of young talent that can stick around. Pod/Demko/Hog/Rathbone/Hughes/Petey?(depends what Petey)

 

You trade the better vets for a solid return. Draft top 5ish for 2-3 years.Accumulate picks/prospects in a 2-3 year period and then build the roster back up after the rebuilding phase based off what you got at that point with youngsters you accumulated knocking on the door.

 

The main reason I think this should be considered if we can't turn it around is because Miller/Horvat are upcoming UFAs in 2023. In the prime of their careers. They could sign with another team in an effort to be on a winning team.Seeing them walk for nothing would really set us back. Probably wouldn't recover.

 

Horvat/Miller would command a pretty hefty return each.

 

Next two drafts are pretty deep too.

 

Definitely should see what the players can do in front of a new coach first though. This is more of a last case scenario.

[MaxVerstappen33]

51 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

What about a soft rebuild. This team is still full of young talent that can stick around. Pod/Demko/Hog/Rathbone/Hughes/Petey?(depends what Petey)

 

You trade the better vets for a solid return. Draft top 5ish for 2-3 years.Accumulate picks/prospects in a 2-3 year period and then build the roster back up after the rebuilding phase based off what you got at that point with youngsters you accumulated knocking on the door.

 

Miller/Horvat are upcoming UFAs in 2023. In the prime of their careers. They could sign with another team in an effort to be on a winning team.Seeing them walk for nothing would really set us back. Probably wouldn't recover.

 

Horvat/Miller would command a pretty hefty return each.

 

Next two drafts are pretty deep too.

 

I would not be opposed to something like this if we had a plan and stuck to it. Like tank properly and trade Horvat and Miller. 1-2 years max. 3 years is too much. Tank bigtime on the first year and let the chips fall in the 2nd and then pull out of it in the 3rd year.

[ABNucksfan]

On 11/15/2021 at 2:34 AM, shiznak said:

Not only that, but no team was willing to take on 14M in cap space for two aging players. 
 

So, Trevor was right that the correct time was to rebuild after they had retire. 

14 Million for 100+ points combined isn’t terrible, they definitely could have done alot more to rebuild than retool during that time though… 

[IBatch]

On 11/15/2021 at 9:42 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

What about a soft rebuild. This team is still full of young talent that can stick around. Pod/Demko/Hog/Rathbone/Hughes/Petey?(depends what Petey)

 

You trade the better vets for a solid return. Draft top 5ish for 2-3 years.Accumulate picks/prospects in a 2-3 year period and then build the roster back up after the rebuilding phase based off what you got at that point with youngsters you accumulated knocking on the door.

 

The main reason I think this should be considered if we can't turn it around is because Miller/Horvat are upcoming UFAs in 2023. In the prime of their careers. They could sign with another team in an effort to be on a winning team.Seeing them walk for nothing would really set us back. Probably wouldn't recover.

 

Horvat/Miller would command a pretty hefty return each.

 

Next two drafts are pretty deep too.

 

Definitely should see what the players can do in front of a new coach first though. This is more of a last case scenario.

Yes a re-set isn't a bad idea at all.   Thing is trading both Horvat and Miller might be too much.   COL completely lucked out with OTT tanking right after almost going to the final.   What they should of got was a 20-24 or so pick but instead got beat odds on a first overall.   Not expecting that sort of exchange on a re-set.   But what we could end up with, is a more balanced lineup in 2-3 years with a pool that isn't as tragic as we now have.    JB basically went all in...too early.  

[spook007]

On 11/16/2021 at 2:42 AM, Junkyard Dog said:

What about a soft rebuild. This team is still full of young talent that can stick around. Pod/Demko/Hog/Rathbone/Hughes/Petey?(depends what Petey)

 

You trade the better vets for a solid return. Draft top 5ish for 2-3 years.Accumulate picks/prospects in a 2-3 year period and then build the roster back up after the rebuilding phase based off what you got at that point with youngsters you accumulated knocking on the door.

 

The main reason I think this should be considered if we can't turn it around is because Miller/Horvat are upcoming UFAs in 2023. In the prime of their careers. They could sign with another team in an effort to be on a winning team.Seeing them walk for nothing would really set us back. Probably wouldn't recover.

 

Horvat/Miller would command a pretty hefty return each.

 

Next two drafts are pretty deep too.

 

Definitely should see what the players can do in front of a new coach first though. This is more of a last case scenario.

If we go down that road, question is if we may as well consider EP as well? 
I don't want him to leave, but by his own account, he want to win or play for a winner. 
Have doubts he wants to hang around, if the team continues to rebuild. He can see what that has brought Horvat. 
Definitely something that has to be discussed with him. @7.35M for another 2 years and still RFA after that, he may be the prize that really can fetch something. Especially if he indicates, he isn't keen to hang around for the rebuild.

[DrJockitch]

If I had to quickly encapsulate why Benning should go I would look at the D. After 8 years of draft and development our D 9 deep is:

 

Trade UFA

Draft UFA

UFA UFA

UFA, UFA, draft.

 

And the one Trade there, he traded three UFAs for. Bottom 6 has mostly been similarly filled. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by DrJockitch

[wallstreetamigo]

On 11/15/2021 at 5:22 PM, Mustard Tiger said:

Almost every other franchise out there ships out good players for good value prior to them walking in FA or if they need to accelerate the rebuild. We are the only team it seems who hang onto every good player till they are no longer good, And have negative value. This is because of aqua's clear agenda to the " Once a canuck, Always a canuck " , " Character guys " , " Great in the community " being prioritized over winning. They don't even want guys hitting or fighting apparently, Off to the waiver wire you go!

Everybody knows what a stale voice vs a new voice can do to a locker room. As for JB.. I like the trade value he has brought to our roster via drafting, I'd actually keep him as president, Get a new GM and coaching staff. I guess i'm just not super keen like most to let a new gm have free rein on the roster. We have alot of young valuable pieces. Prime candidate for a re-tool. You know he will be looking to make his stamp on the team, After all years of disappointment. Although we need change, I'm not looking to flip early 20 year olds for late 20's because they are in there prime. That how we narrow any window, End up with big dollar deals on guys over 30, And have no good young talent in the system as we would probably become buyers at the deadlines, Spending 1st & 2nds on pearson level guys for a " run ".

It's been a long time, It sucks. But all our best players not named miller / OEL are not even in their prime years.. 
I don't know, I guess i just have all the time in the world, Not a big deal if we win or suck as i'm going to watch regardless lol
Just remember it's only an entertainment sport, Is it worth getting worked up over something you have no control over? For me, Nahh

Why in the world would anyone want to keep Benning as President? Most of the Canucks issues come directly back to not having a competent PoHO. Benning has been defacto pres since linden left and the organization is a train wreck. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[CanucksJay]

On 11/15/2021 at 3:06 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

Pretty much agree with this assessment.

 

Can Green now.

Give JB 'til the end of season, with the understanding that NO FUTURES are spent in deals.

Yup, what if coaches change and we play like a playoff team. One could then argue that JB did his job but Green didn't. 

JB detractors could then say JB is ultimately responsible for the Green  hiring but what if JB's budget for a coaching hire given by ownership was such that Green was actually the best candidate? 

Would the responsibility then fall on Aqualini for not investing in coaches?