Blight for Wright - Canucks already at less than 10% chance to make the playoffs

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, sassbs said:

Green will be here for the home games.   I feel this will be his last test.   If they fail now then we will see major changes 

 

and I don’t want to see another ahl coach here. I want a big name, well reputed coach 

If he's allowed to coach another game, Benning needs to be fired as well.

[Nucker 67]

6 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

If Benning still wants Green, I sure as hell don't trust him to make a trade.  

Yeah, isn't Benning supposed to be an excellent judge of talent? 

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, Provost said:

Just picture our team without Miller and Horvat and no assets in return for them.

This is a critical point.

They must be re-signed or traded, they can not be allowed to play out their deals and walk for free.

Yes, the cap space would be nice, but what free agent would want to come here at that point?

[IBatch]

Is this another famed Provost post making declarations the season is over? 

 

Maybe it is.   But it isn't over until it's over.

[kanucks25]

omg i can't belive yur so neagitve the team is gonna loose now cause your so negative i wish they;'d just reloacte the team we don't desreve the Canucks!!!

[Ballisticsports.]

27 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Lots of problems with this team, including:

 

- GM extended Travis, instead of finding a replacement, and has trade the last two years' 1st round picks for this

- Head Coach has a losing record and has lost the room

- Special Teams Coach doesn't know what he's doing

- Pettersson looks awful

- Horvat is a quiet Captain and the team has no identity

- Possible rift in the room (Bo and JT?)

 

I hate to say it, but I think Jim makes a big trade to shake things up.  It's a last resort before firing the GM or Coach. 

I was critical of the aggressive trades made, as i thought they were short term fixes to save a GM job and not for the best long term of the club

OEL and Garland are good players, but if we still miss the playoffs with them, how is that better than missing the playoffs this year with the boat anchors we had that were coming off the books for free and we had so much options at the start of next year

 

Who expected EP to be this bad? I was troubled by his summer statements and even more so by his play

He can't be sent down to the minors, but he hasn't earned the right to be on the PP and should even be demoted to the 3rd line

He only has 2 assists over 200+ minutes on 5v5

Counting this season and last season, he has 16 5v5 points in 42 games in nearing 600 min of hockey

That is not 1st line centre output

Boeser hasn't been much better than him either

 

I still expect them to turn it around and push at the end for jobs and miss out on top pick

This team seems so unfocused from top to bottom, everyone as individuals and not a team from ,management, players

 

Can you imagine the blowouts without Demko doing what he has done?

Hogs, Demko, Garland (especially earlier), Pods are bright spots and hope they don't fall like others

 

They better start retaining top picks

Trading top picks for years to always remain at the bottom is not very good planning for the future

 

[Pickly]

Dear god…we really could be evolving into the Buffalo Sabres. 
 

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

This is a critical point.

They must be re-signed or traded, they can not be allowed to play out their deals and walk for free.

Yes, the cap space would be nice, but what free agent would want to come here at that point?

Yep… the reason I post these threads isn’t to be all doom and gloom.  It is to clarify where we are at realistically so that it puts a context about what decisions have to be made to help the team get out of the mess.

 

Clicking our heels together and wishing to become a contender is not likely to result in success.

 

Taking into account that this season is likely not going to end up in a couple of playoff rounds with everyone feeling great about the team, that means the Horvat and Miller situation is suddenly pretty critical right now.  Going into next season with them is putting a lot of eggs into one basket hoping for a miracle run that puts them in a mood to extend at a reasonable price tag.  

 

The other thing it clarifies is that we are probably going to be bad for a while and players under club control are more valuable to us than cap space because it will be hard to convince players to come here or extend.

 

As much as Petterson is playing like poop, we own his rights for a while so we need to gamble in him getting better.  Hughes is flawed, but we can’t replace him at that price tag in the open market.

 

We need a new GM who isn’t tied to any of these players and Miller, Horvat, and Boeser probably need to be traded if we can get a decent price.  We need assets under club control (prospects, picks, or roster players with years left) as a return.

 

No assets we are going to get back are going to replace what we give up in the very short term.  They could help us a lot two years from now and give us some room to weaponize cap space for decent players who could maybe help us be respectable while waiting for trade assets to mature.

 

[Provost]

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Is this another famed Provost post making declarations the season is over? 

 

Yep, being right repeatedly in the face of great opposition does tend to make one famous.

 

Thank you for recognizing my prognosticating ability.

 

 

 

[D-Money]

50 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Would that not make it crazy to trade them then? 

It would be crazy to trade any young player, when the situation might simply be greatly improved by a new coaching staff.

 

And it would be even more crazy to trade players who have never played under any coach except Green and Desjardins. Who knows what they could become with an established winner guiding them?

Edited November 16, 2021 by D-Money

['NucK™]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

It would be crazy to trade any young player, when it couldn’t simply be greatly improved by a new coaching staff.

 

And it would be even more crazy to trade players who have never played under any coach except Green and Desjardins. Who knows what they could become with an established winner guiding them?

Well yeah, exactly. Not to mention that you are trading them when their value is the lowest it has ever been.

[Coconuts]

[MikeyD]

I don't think Wright is good enough to tank for. Good player but as far as first overalls go he's a pure sniper. 

 

He's like Boeser, but a Boeser isn't a franchise player worth tanking for. 

[Sean Monahan]

1 minute ago, MikeyD said:

I don't think Wright is good enough to tank for. Good player but as far as first overalls go he's a pure sniper. 

 

He's like Boeser, but a Boeser isn't a franchise player worth tanking for. 

I’d say he’s closer to Matthews than Boeser in terms of goal scoring ability. Maybe more on par with a Stamkos. He’s supposed to be the best first overall pick since Matthews I believe. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

Where is this quote from?

Bathroom stall.  Third from the left.  Right below:  "For a good time, call Alf @ 867-5309..ask for Jenny".

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

A big part of the apathy is trying to figure out how we can even get out of this.

Assuming we don’t make a good playoff run this season (which the odds indicate is extremely unlikely), that gives us a single season to show we are a team on the upswing before we have to try to convince Miller and Horvat to re-sign or lose them for nothing as UFAs.  We have to somehow turn things around next season without any cap space to add any significant pieces.

 

I don’t see them wanting to sign a next contract for one of the worst teams in the league.  They will be at an age where they want a chance to win before they are too old.

 

Just picture our team without Miller and Horvat and no assets in return for them.  We have no prospects in the pipeline to take over from them.   No free agent is going to sign to a perennial loser without being vastly overpaid and handcuffing us. That means another full rebuild from scratch starting two years from now.

 

To improve our long term organizational health in a shorter timeframe that leaves the horrifying prospect of trading both those players before this deadline when their value will be at the highest because they won’t just be rentals.   Both would be highly sought after due to their playing styles for the playoffs and their reasonable cap hits.

Boeser is also likely most attractive as a trade asset right now before he gets a new deal… I am not even sure he is very attractive now even with a $7+ million ticket looming.
 

We would need to get top prospects and 1st round picks for each of them, and then maybe flip those 1st round picks at the draft for good NHL roster players that may be cap casualties.

 

None of that is going to happen because no one is ready to restart the whole process after an 8 year streak of futility.

 

What are the alternatives for us to get better?  Just keeping hoping that last year and this year are mirages and the same team will miraculously get way better?

If management, new or current, is able to show that they're taking serious steps to make change I think Horvat stays. I think Miller walks and explores UFA regardless, eventually signing with a more surefire playoff squad or contender. 

 

I've been saying Miller's out best trade chip for a while. Good contract, good production, prime aged. Signed for another season so a team could get two cracks at a run with him. I'd trade him for help on D. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Benning sealed his fate when he renewed Green. 

This is the consequences. 

Worst part is, you can change the GM and Coach.

The team is probably going to still struggle this season.

Given how poorly the players are playing now. Should we bother trading them as there wont be any value?

Except maybe Demko and Hogs. 

[grandmaster]

30 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

If management, new or current, is able to show that they're taking serious steps to make change I think Horvat stays. I think Miller walks and explores UFA regardless, eventually signing with a more surefire playoff squad or contender. 

 

I've been saying Miller's out best trade chip for a while. Good contract, good production, prime aged. Signed for another season so a team could get two cracks at a run with him. I'd trade him for help on D. 

This team is extremely soft as it is. We can not afford to lose Miller.

[Nave]

I don't think Benning would trade another 1st round pick, as some people are suggesting. 
However, he may have sealed his fate when he resigned Green. He has tied himself to the coach, and as a consequence may be let go at the same time.
I would like for Benning to see what this roster can do with a different coaching staff. Motte is back, which should help our penalty kill a bit. But so far, the problem is our stale and predictable systems. 

[Coconuts]

17 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

This team is extremely soft as it is. We can not afford to lose Miller.

I've heard that feedback, but I don't see him staying long term. I see Pettersson, Boeser, Hoglander, and Podkolzin being a part of our top 6-9 long term. I'd sooner keep Horvat than Miller because of his age and position. 

 

I see Miller as the odd guy out given his age, if we're going to restructure the team that likely takes time. If we're going to try and improve the team we're going to have to give to get.

 

Our 1st should absolutely be off the table given we'll probably draft top 10. He's our best asset to trade.