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Distribution of the blame - who is at fault?

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Dazzle

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5 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

I’ll blame whatever I want. I have my own opinion on the matter as a matter of fact. Trading your starting goalie Idk easier said then done. If it was my fantasy pool sure. This is real life and winning matters. We were battling for a playoff spot. Trading Markstrom says to Young team. We are done here boys. 
 

That off-season was a mess. Should have kept Tanev if anyone. That’s what should have happened imo. Toffoli I don’t care at all about that. It sucked at the time and I personally wanted to wait another year to do something like that but Brock was injured and JB pulled the trigger. This is all Before COVID and yes COVID can be blamed cause the season was literally OVER! Cap Was suppose to go up. Not everyone has as much patience as you or I. Toffoli is overrated af. Take Garland over him any day 

Trading a goalie the caliber of Markstrom on a relatively cheap contract would not have been difficult, especially to a playoff team wanting an upgrade.

 

It's all good, I agree - I would have kept Tanev as well as I wanted to see what Demko could do...just would have rather got SOMETHING back for Markstrom as the plan was for Demko to be our guy anyway. Toffoli is overrated, then why trade away assets for him? Just cements my point, the trade was terrible. You kind of contradicted yourself by saying he's overrated AF but then defending the trade...a bit confusing. 

Edited by CJ44
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2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not that he's without blame here... but I do find it pretty funny that Benning is being crucified for not bringing in appropriate support players to win draws and PK... When the past few years he's been endlessly crucified for overpaying support players who 'do nothing but win draws and PK' :lol:

 

Anyhoo... Man I hope something changes soon. Coach seems the most obvious to see if/how players respond. Whoever doesn't respond, start looking for trades. If the majority of the team doesn't respond from that, we have way bigger problems.

 

But this roster has too much talent to play those badly. Something is clearly 'off'.

Yup the expensive plugs that help you win hockey games are gone and the responsibility has shifted to the younger players. That is part of it imo. This could be some major growing pains for our team. Regardless I think a coaching change would kick start them 

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58 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Still a firm believer that this is on Green. Benning should be fired but only for keeping Green around too long. Should never had extended him. JB has done everything he can to make a great team. Starting with nothing years ago. I like this team and the players (they can be better) there are a few holes but like I said I believe in these guys just like Benning does. Keeping Green is JBs downfall 

Well said.

 

For me - I would give this team until the trade deadline.  If we aren’t within playoff striking distance at the trade deadline, then all three of Horvat, Miller, and Boeser should be moved for firsts and/or elite prospects.  I’m thankful for Green’s time here but he should be let go immediately.  I believe that Claude Julien has worked with Benning before and so that seems like it would be a good fit.

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1 minute ago, CJ44 said:

Trading a goalie the caliber of Markstrom on a relatively cheap contract would not have been difficult, especially to a playoff team wanting an upgrade.

 

It's all good, I agree - I would have kept Tanev as well as I wanted to see what Demko could do...just would have rather got SOMETHING back for Markstrom as the plan was for Demko to be our guy anyway. Toffoli is overrated, then why trade away assets for him? Just cements my point, the trade was terrible. You kind of contradicted yourself by saying he's overrated AF but then defending the trade...a bit confusing. 

He’s overrated in the fact of the situation. He’s a player that obviously helped are team but he’s not some Star people make him out to be. We lost a couple assets in that trade. What did LA get a second rounder and Madden. We need another small player? 

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3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not that he's without blame here... but I do find it pretty funny that Benning is being crucified for not bringing in appropriate support players to win draws and PK... When the past few years he's been endlessly crucified for overpaying support players who 'do nothing but win draws and PK' :lol:

 

Anyhoo... Man I hope something changes soon. Coach seems the most obvious to see if/how players respond. Whoever doesn't respond, start looking for trades. If the majority of the team doesn't respond from that, we have way bigger problems.

 

But this roster has too much talent to play those badly. Something is clearly 'off'.

It’s a bad culture. It festers in a locker room when it’s coming from all facets of the organization. The players are well aware of how the Canucks are viewed amongst the hockey world. Misguided with no real organization or vision. Hockey folks outside of and even inside of Vancouver have been wondering for years what the hell the Canucks are doing and what they are trying to achieve because the message has flip flopped so many times. The players are well aware of this. They are gonna show up and play regardless because it’s their job and they play for pride no matter the noise, but that stench is going to linger no matter what and it has an effect on a players psyche. It’s what’s happened in Ottawa and Buffalo. And it’s happening here. 

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1 minute ago, Patel Bure said:

Well said.

 

For me - I would give this team until the trade deadline.  If we aren’t within playoff striking distance at the trade deadline, then all three of Horvat, Miller, and Boeser should be moved for firsts and/or elite prospects.  I’m thankful for Green’s time here but he should be let go immediately.  I believe that Claude Julien has worked with Benning before and so that seems like it would be a good fit.

We should re stock a couple picks at the deadline. No need to strip the whole team. Lots of good pieces to play next year and beyond. Trade a couple guys that will expire in the next year or 2. Get cap space and picks.

 

If somehow we get going, competing again and playoffs are in reach then continue on. Don’t buy. That’s what I would like to see. It’s a stretch though 

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11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not that he's without blame here... but I do find it pretty funny that Benning is being crucified for not bringing in appropriate support players to win draws and PK... When the past few years he's been endlessly crucified for overpaying support players who 'do nothing but win draws and PK' :lol:

 

Anyhoo... Man I hope something changes soon. Coach seems the most obvious to see if/how players respond. Whoever doesn't respond, start looking for trades. If the majority of the team doesn't respond from that, we have way bigger problems.

 

But this roster has too much talent to play those badly. Something is clearly 'off'.

How's that solid prospect pool lookin' these days bud? ;)

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Historically bad PK and PP all points to the coaches. I really want to blame Aqua/Benning, but until I see this team under a legit NHL coach, the blame falls on Green.

 

Everyone thought JB had a great off season, that was the consensus opinion before the season. This team IS talented, the most skilled lineup (on paper) since the 2011 team. 

 

The roster had a major makeover but the team still plays the same old flawed 'system'. Our skilled players are regressing right before our eyes playing the dump n chase. 

 

Fire the entire coaching staff except Shaw and Clark, if the team still sucks under a new system, then the blame goes to JB for constructing the team. 

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3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

You know where this all went wrong?

 

66 Million years ago, a giant space rock, came down and wiped out the DINOSAURS.

 

If they had still been here to eat the Monkeys, we never would have run Amok, and NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING!

 

This planet has been a TOTAL Sh!t show, and going downhill, ever since.

 

 

 

:picard::picard::picard::picard::picard::picard:

Problem with the dinosaurs was the dinosaurs.   Think the herd at the King Ranch in Texas is putting enough flatulence into the ozone.   Imagine what a herd of Bronto or Brachiosaurus's could do!    We are talking massive massive dumps   jurassic park deal with it GIF

Edited by IBatch
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24 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not that he's without blame here... but I do find it pretty funny that Benning is being crucified for not bringing in appropriate support players to win draws and PK... When the past few years he's been endlessly crucified for overpaying support players who 'do nothing but win draws and PK' :lol:

Support players, Pkers, defensively responsible players are important.

 

Doubt anyone actually argues against this.

 

What Jim Benning and his loyal supporters cannot seem to grasp, though, is that a big part of building a successful team is organizing the timeline so that your roster peaks together and you're able to keep it all under the cap for at least a couple seasons before the roster outprices itself.

 

If I had a nickel for every time I was told by an apologist that cap space doesn't matter during a rebuild or some sort of similar twisted explanation to defend terrible contract after terrible contract. Reminds me of the Trudeau hit-piece ads that we used to get all the time on TV: "The budget will balance itself"?

 

Benning was too busy trading for and signing players to fill the age gap when he should have been hoarding picks so that eventually a few mid-late round guys would break out and be the cheap bottom-6 support/energy that we so desperately need. But then I was told: "Benning is so good at drafting, he doesn't need as many picks as other GM's." lol ok

 

Benning has zero idea about roster composition. He like anyone else can understand what kind of players are useful, but has no idea how to mix them together. I mean look at his attempts at putting together an NHL defence over 8 years, it's been an abject failure.

 

Beagle can be a useful player. Myers can be a useful player. Poolman can be a useful player. But Benning undermines the player's value by signing them for too much, for too long, and at the wrong time.

Edited by kanucks25
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3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

They haven't actually said that.   Just inferred.   This is what a broken franchise looks like ... it's not a good look. 

Both have as directly said it as they possibly could. While neither taking any responsibility for the teams struggles.
 

No leadership from the top. The main goal of management and coaching has shifted to saving their own jobs over everything else. That seems to be a strong hint it’s time to fire them. 

I can’t wait to see all the Benning supporters defend him when he trades a core player for bottom 6 toughness and we get worse.

 

Edited by wallstreetamigo
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5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Problem with the dinosaurs was the dinosaurs.   Think the herd at the King Ranch in Texas is putting enough flatulence into the ozone.   Imagine what a herd of Bronto or Brachiosaurus's could do!    We are talking massive massive dumps   jurassic park deal with it GIF

I still wonder what a Brontosaurus burger would have been like. Maybe one day through some quasi evil cloning.....

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24 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

According to Benning and Green, it’s 100% on the players. Great leadership there.

Wow... pass the hot potato. Totally agree, just "great leadership". Aquilini just needs to clean house, but I guess he's fine with stinking up his own brand.

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Just now, Dazzle said:

Wow... pass the hot potato. Totally agree, just "great leadership". Aquilini just needs to clean house, but I guess he's fine with stinking up his own brand.

Does anyone really think the players were excited to hear both their coach and GM accept no responsibility and throw them under the bus? I don’t see how either of those men made things better with their comments.

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Aqua 

 

I don't believe an owner should be involved in day to day hockey decisions. It makes it difficult to assess the decisions of the gm when the owner is involved in those decisions.   Sure you have to run things by him as far as major signings etc. But he should not be acting as Co gm.  I really like aquaman.  Really passionate owner/fan. 

For this reason I am having a hard time assessing JB. 

 

JB 

I like the guy as a gm, but see above.  

If there's one thing I don't like is that Travis Green is still coach of this team. 

Always seems to want to draft "nice" players.

No a**holes on the team. Maybe that's what Travis wants   see below.  

 

Travis Green 

Lousy coach.  Flippant when one of his talented weak players gets roughed up. I believe this teams lack of standing up for each other is him. He doesn't seem to like hard nosed hockey. 

Benches young players for mistakes.

Unable to think outside the box.

 

Can't asses assistants as long as Travis is coach. 

 

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11 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Does anyone really think the players were excited to hear both their coach and GM accept no responsibility and throw them under the bus? I don’t see how either of those men made things better with their comments.

Fully agreed. It's time that the media rile the fans up on this. Benning & Green will never get better at their jobs because they've pushed the problem to someone else.

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3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Fully agreed. It's time that the media rile the fans up on this. Benning & Green will never get better at their jobs because they've pushed the problem to someone else.

The missing ingredient on this team - from the owner down - is true accountability.

 

They claim they demand it of the players to earn a spot (which is absolute BS considering who they keep and how they are used) but players aren’t stupid. You can see it in them that they don’t feel their GM and coach have their backs at all. And that they don’t accept any responsibility when things go sideways.

Edited by wallstreetamigo
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