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Distribution of the blame - who is at fault?

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Dazzle

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19 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

We have a puck possession forward group. The coach wants to play dump and chase.

 

We have a good skating, good first pass D that relies on their skating to defend. The coach wants to play a stand around passive defense and a chip the puck out transition game.

 

Anyone with any knowledge of hockey can see why the team is underachieving and the players are struggling.

Just awful.

 

I honestly feel that the too many men penalties that Green's rosters tend to have are a result of poor communication. I mean Green is just seemingly making crap up as he goes. This isn't coaching.

 

Why he benched rookies after they score? I have no idea. Totally stupid, mindfk coach.

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1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

Just awful.

 

I honestly feel that the too many men penalties that Green's rosters tend to have are a result of poor communication. I mean Green is just seemingly making crap up as he goes. This isn't coaching.

 

Why he benched rookies after they score? I have no idea. Totally stupid, mindfk coach.

Green came into the NHL himself as an entitled, arrogant one way player who had to be basically completely broken and rebuilt by Al Arbour. He clearly views most young players through that same lens as a coach. He is not an old guy but he coaches like one.

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49 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Green came into the NHL himself as an entitled, arrogant one way player who had to be basically completely broken and rebuilt by Al Arbour. He clearly views most young players through that same lens as a coach. He is not an old guy but he coaches like one.

No wonder he wanted Dahlen to go through the same treatment. He saw himself as a young player. :bigblush:

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1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

What ifs are not a valid reason to hang onto a mediocre GM and Coaches. 
 

What if a coaching change sparks those players to improve?

Ok I'll rephrase the question.

 

Is it Green's fault that Bo, Brock and Elias are all under performing while QHs and JT are playing well?

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9 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Ok I'll rephrase the question.

 

Is it Green's fault that Bo, Brock and Elias are all under performing while QHs and JT are playing well?

Don't go there.  Because that's like a spin doctor bad dialogue.   Green mentored and gave BB, EP and QHs the minutes ... but now he's garbage ... And Miller has never produced even close to the number he has with the Canucks - but that's on Green too.   Same with making Pearson rich.   And to a degree Horvat.   Everything these guys do is INSPITE of Green is what a lot seem to think.   That's what the fan base has bought into on this site anyways.  

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25 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Ok I'll rephrase the question.

 

Is it Green's fault that Bo, Brock and Elias are all under performing while QHs and JT are playing well?

Since none of those 3 really excel at a dump and chase style and rely on puck support to excel then I would say yes it’s partly a coaching issue.
 

I would argue that Hughes is playing better defensively than last year but worse offensively as a result. He is being underutilized in terms of how the coaches want the team to transition the puck so it really is a coaching issue. Miller gets his points but he hasn’t really played that well compared to a few years ago. He is a giveaway machine and his blind passing to no one is a huge concern. Again, the no puck support system is partially to blame for that as well. 

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15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Don't go there.  Because that's like a spin doctor bad dialogue.   Green mentored and gave BB, EP and QHs the minutes ... but now he's garbage ... And Miller has never produced even close to the number he has with the Canucks - but that's on Green too.   Same with making Pearson rich.   And to a degree Horvat.   Everything these guys do is INSPITE of Green is what a lot seem to think.   That's what the fan base has bought into on this site anyways.  

But if you look at WHY they are underperforming you definitely see that coaching is partly responsible.

 

Puck possession forwards coached to play dump and chase.

 

Skating and first pass D coached to dump the puck out and play passive in their own end.

 

The style doesn’t fit the personnel. It’s not rocket science really. 

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Honestly I'm not too upset with Benning, he's made some mistakes but IMO has done more good than bad and constructed quite a nice roster on paper this season. When you look at these individuals, you could argue they should all be like the following:

 

Miller - point per game strong center, good at faceoffs, gritty.

Boeser - 30 goal scoring forward +, 60-80 poonts

Pettersson - should be hitting 60-80 points comfortably

Horvat - 2 way center should be capable of 50-70 points

Garland - good gritty winger scoring at a 60-70 point pace

Pearson, Hoglander - 15-20 goal scorers, good 2 way games

Dickinson - faceoff and PK specialist

Motte - one of the league's best 4th liners and great PKer

OEL - regarded as a great top-2 defenceman across the league, consistently 30-40 point scorer

Hughes - 60+ offensive defenceman, arguably top 5 puck mover in the league

Poolman, Hamonic, Myers - bottom 4 solid shutdown defencemen

Demko - future All star goalie entering his prime

 

Then you look at what's on the ice and it's a mess. Coaches have to get the most out of their players and they're doing the opposite. The poor special teams is another example of poor coaching and poor execution.

 

For me it comes down to the ciaches and culture around the team which is dragging these great individuals down. Roster-wise there's not much more we can ask for up front, the bottom 6 has potential, we have a great mix of defencemen and a star goalie yet we sit at the bottom of the league.

 

I often think firing coaches is an easy way out but when the on-paper and on-ice product differ so much you have to look above the players.

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10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

But if you look at WHY they are underperforming you definitely see that coaching is partly responsible.

 

Puck possession forwards coached to play dump and chase.

 

Skating and first pass D coached to dump the puck out and play passive in their own end.

 

The style doesn’t fit the personnel. It’s not rocket science really. 

Sure.   Guess we will all find out eventually won't we? 

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2 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Honestly I'm not too upset with Benning, he's made some mistakes but IMO has done more good than bad and constructed quite a nice roster on paper this season. When you look at these individuals, you could argue they should all be like the following:

 

Miller - point per game strong center, good at faceoffs, gritty.

Boeser - 30 goal scoring forward +, 60-80 poonts

Pettersson - should be hitting 60-80 points comfortably

Horvat - 2 way center should be capable of 50-70 points

Garland - good gritty winger scoring at a 60-70 point pace

Pearson, Hoglander - 15-20 goal scorers, good 2 way games

Dickinson - faceoff and PK specialist

Motte - one of the league's best 4th liners and great PKer

OEL - regarded as a great top-2 defenceman across the league, consistently 30-40 point scorer

Hughes - 60+ offensive defenceman, arguably top 5 puck mover in the league

Poolman, Hamonic, Myers - bottom 4 solid shutdown defencemen

Demko - future All star goalie entering his prime

 

Then you look at what's on the ice and it's a mess. Coaches have to get the most out of their players and they're doing the opposite. The poor special teams is another example of poor coaching and poor execution.

 

For me it comes down to the ciaches and culture around the team which is dragging these great individuals down. Roster-wise there's not much more we can ask for up front, the bottom 6 has potential, we have a great mix of defencemen and a star goalie yet we sit at the bottom of the league.

 

I often think firing coaches is an easy way out but when the on-paper and on-ice product differ so much you have to look above the players.

Nah.   The buck stops at the top.   That said Dickinson  is not a 3rd line C.  His face offs says it all.  28% so far in the PK lol so far.   And 45% doesn't scream yippee does it?   He's a solid addition to the fourth line that's it.    And what he's been paid to do as a vet now.   I think your overvaluating other players too but won't get into that.   Guess when we suck to the point Green goes we will find out ... but pretty sure, almost completely sure, that if he goes so will Benning.   Hope i'm wrong, because that would mean something great is about to happen.  

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20 hours ago, Devron44 said:

I’ll blame whatever I want. I have my own opinion on the matter as a matter of fact. Trading your starting goalie Idk easier said then done. If it was my fantasy pool sure. This is real life and winning matters. We were battling for a playoff spot. Trading Markstrom says to Young team. We are done here boys. 
 

That off-season was a mess. Should have kept Tanev if anyone. That’s what should have happened imo. Toffoli I don’t care at all about that. It sucked at the time and I personally wanted to wait another year to do something like that but Brock was injured and JB pulled the trigger. This is all Before COVID and yes COVID can be blamed cause the season was literally OVER! Cap Was suppose to go up. Not everyone has as much patience as you or I. Toffoli is overrated af. Take Garland over him any day 

B/c of cap, I believe the only one to resign was Stecher

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20 hours ago, Devron44 said:

Yup the expensive plugs that help you win hockey games are gone and the responsibility has shifted to the younger players. That is part of it imo. This could be some major growing pains for our team. Regardless I think a coaching change would kick start them 

Benning/Green choose to get rid of Joulevy (?) B/c slow and big could only be 3rd pairing/pk, and McEwen only 4th liner big and fast providing toughness and possible p/k

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3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

We have a puck possession forward group. The coach wants to play dump and chase.

 

We have a good skating, good first pass D that relies on their skating to defend. The coach wants to play a stand around passive defense and a chip the puck out transition game.

 

Anyone with any knowledge of hockey can see why the team is underachieving and the players are struggling.

The coach wants to play a "system" that relies on Demko to win games for you.  Now he clearly has the ability to do that but not every single game (else a guy like Hasek would've had 25+ game win streaks)

 

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