If this season bombs, do you support a rebuild ?

[Crabcakes]

12 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Yes, I would support a rebuild.  

 

Miller, Horvat, and Boeser all moved at the trade deadline for 1st's and prospects.   

 

Having said that, I think the above (and this thread in general) is garbage because the Canucks are going to be a playoff team at the trade deadline (or within striking distance). 

That's pretty optimistic.  Let's say they are a playoff team by the trade deadline.  They would have to have had a turnaround like the St Louis Blues in 2019.  If they had such a turnaround, then clearly they were a really good team despite this prolonged slump and to proceed with a rebuild would be a big mistake.

[Crabcakes]

11 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Sportsnet 650 talked about something interesting.

Comparing the Canucks to the Av's.

How 2014 they made the playoffs, and they thought the core at the time was fine. Then the team derailed in 2016. 

Roy resigned. 

And they re-jigged, they didn't blow up the team but moved some key pieces to make a better core. Especially on Defence. 

 

Not quite the same, but a good example if the core you have maybe doesn't have the pieces you really need maybe just make a few trades. I just don't think we can find a team as stupid as Ottawa to trade with. (Maybe the Coyotes?) 

 

They finished first in the Central in 2014 with 112 points, then lost in the first round to the Wild

 

They then fired their GM and promoted Sakic who proceeded with a re-tool and missed the playoffs for 3 straight years.  They've been a playoff team since 2017-18 and won the Presidents Trophy last year.

 

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

No they wouldn't. That's insane. And he isn't leaving as a UFA either. 

 

There is no point of a rebuild if you are just going to get rid of the assets you accumulate anyway. Which is exactly what trading Petey is. 

He specifically said that he wants to play for a winner and his contract length indicates that.  If we rebuild, the team will not be competitive enough for him once his contract is up.

[Chris12345]

I always love these topics.

 

Just trade for good returns. If the return isn't there don't do it.

 

Trade anyone anytime. No one is untouchable.

 

Is there a reasonable offer out there? Doubtful.

[Provost]

Well I think the term “if” for the season bombing is  being wildly optimistic.

 

More accurately “now that” the season has bombed, so you support a rebuild.

 

My answer is yes, kind of.

 

I don’t think it is a rebuild when you already have and intend on keeping most of the core young pieces.  It is really just recalibrating the horizon by aiming for a really competitive team 2-3 years from now.  The window for contending now has pretty much shut.

 

It is pretty unlikely that soon to be UFAs are going to re-sign for a team that has been skidding along the very bottom of the standings for nearly a decade.  That means it is absolutely time to cash out on them while they have value.  Miller and Horvat need to go before we lose them for nothing and each get an NHL ready blue chip prospect and a 1st round pick.
 

If you can get that for Boeser too you do that, otherwise you just have to hope for the best on his return to form.

 

If there is any interest in guys like Pearson and Myers go wild on trading them too.  They are replaceable.

 

Try to get a couple of top 6 centres in the draft, try to get a couple of young D prospects with solid top 4 potential and we should have a revamped roster in a couple of years.  In the meantime sign cheap veterans on short term contracts to fill gaps until the kids are ready.

[RU SERIOUS]

Back in the good 'ol days we didn't F-Around with things.   "Retooling" is another half-a$$ed politically correct "Millenial Invention of the Imagination" to do something half way - so "you don't upset anyone" and end up with half a$$ed results..   

 

The only way to Rebuild a team is to BLOW IT UP & REBUILD IT - BOTTOMS UP  !

Edited November 21, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[Guest]

Sell Petey, Miller, Horvat, and Boeser.  That's the equivalent of 6 x 1st rounders and a couple of grade A prospects in trade capital in a very very conservative estimate.  

 

Build around Hughes, Demko, Garland, Motte, Hoglander, Podkolzin, and OEL.  Those are the kind of guys that I like, not easy to play against and get under the opposition's skin.  Growing very tired of the gentlemanly, pats-on-the-back, pushover part of the core.  

[DS4quality]

Before anything,  if this year bombs I'd like a different GM to come fix the team

[combover]

This season is already f’d 

I support firing the person who assemble the team 

and the inept coach 

then Go from there with hopefully a GM that has a plan and knows how to build a team.

hopefully get some size and toughness in the bottom six 

and a coach that can coach to the players strengths and isn’t afraid to play the prospects over ahl plug ufas. 
 

So a yes to management/coaching rebuild.

#firebenning#Firegreen

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by combover

[iinatcc]

I mean if this season bombs there really is no choice right ? If this core can't get it done then it's time to move on

[DSVII]

This answer depends on the players. If none of them want to stay another year like bo or brock. We will be forced to anyhow 

[DownUndaCanuck]

While this young core has a lot still to offer, I just don't see them competing with the core of Edmonton/Carolina/Calgary even now. The Carolina teams have young stars coming through who are already mixing nicely with their older guys and giving them success which we've failed to do too.

 

Sadly as of right now we're getting lumped in with teams like Buffalo and Arizona and unlike them, they have plenty of picks in the coming deep drafts.

 

I think honestly in the short-term the move is to change coach and see if a new coach and structure can get the most out of our struggling stars. To be honest if we're a bottom-feeder next year I think whoever is GM has no other option but a fire-sale the way Buffalo has. If we traded away Pettersson, Boeser, Miller and a defenceman (maybe Myers) we could easily end up with 3 decent prospects and 2-3 1st round picks. Problem is we'd be trading to playoff teams so would end up with late 1sts but there may be some juicy prospects we could work on and our own 1st may even be a lottery pick next season. Arizona has really bulked up for these deep drafts and we haven't, but the point difference between us is really not that much...

[IBatch]

Really this team could be torn down to it's foundation and start all over.   EP shouldn't be included in your poll.   If we are going to rebuild then nobody is really safe, even Demko.   Lou on drafting Mathews "we tried really hard to be the worst team and did it".    A scorched earth rebuild rarely works though, not with the new lotto rules although they have adjusted them a little.   TO was just lucky that's it, 25% is bad odds really, better odds to draft 4th (50/50 back then!).    We keep Demko and he could just become our Gibson, as in a goalie that just won't let you bottom out.    

 

5x5 we are actually middle of the row.   That to me is always the best gauge on how the team does in the playoffs when whistles get put away.    And that's without EP and BB playing to their ability.     Can see why nobody has done anything rash yet.   

Edited November 23, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

While this young core has a lot still to offer, I just don't see them competing with the core of Edmonton/Carolina/Calgary even now. The Carolina teams have young stars coming through who are already mixing nicely with their older guys and giving them success which we've failed to do too.

 

Sadly as of right now we're getting lumped in with teams like Buffalo and Arizona and unlike them, they have plenty of picks in the coming deep drafts.

 

I think honestly in the short-term the move is to change coach and see if a new coach and structure can get the most out of our struggling stars. To be honest if we're a bottom-feeder next year I think whoever is GM has no other option but a fire-sale the way Buffalo has. If we traded away Pettersson, Boeser, Miller and a defenceman (maybe Myers) we could easily end up with 3 decent prospects and 2-3 1st round picks. Problem is we'd be trading to playoff teams so would end up with late 1sts but there may be some juicy prospects we could work on and our own 1st may even be a lottery pick next season. Arizona has really bulked up for these deep drafts and we haven't, but the point difference between us is really not that much...

We wouldn't have to trade BB or EP to good teams.   We'd have a long list of teams to choose from.   Agree with Miller though, one year left then UFA, that's a Duchene deal.   So would need massive luck to get it to work like it did for COL (OTT almost made the final ... nobody's predicted they'd be the worst team in the league, Sakic sure didn't probably expected at best a 17th overall), probably a 22-30th plus a prospect or a first and a second.   

 

EP and BB for sure could go to lottery teams ... but for what reason really?  Just to get another BB or EP if we are lucky?   To me the team just needs to stay the course and make some bottom tweaks to sort out the PK or an actual hockey trade to push our D over the top.  

 

And for sure start with a new coaching staff unless by some miracle TG can get us winning games "9-10 times" lol.    This core deserves a shot as is it is plus maybe one big hockey trade, and possibly a re-set around anyone BB age and younger.    That means Horvat and Miller.   

[Kumquats]

[wai_lai416]

I'm down for anything but Benning and green gotta be gone as a starter. If Benning is retained and allowed to do the rebuild I'd be down to start the sell the team chant at every game. With all the latest trade rumors and the refusal to fire the coach seems like Benning doesn't have the green light to fire green. 

[IBatch]

On 11/21/2021 at 1:15 PM, Crabcakes said:

They finished first in the Central in 2014 with 112 points, then lost in the first round to the Wild

 

They then fired their GM and promoted Sakic who proceeded with a re-tool and missed the playoffs for 3 straight years.  They've been a playoff team since 2017-18 and won the Presidents Trophy last year.

 

 

Yes it worked.   Luck absolutely played into that.   Don't think anyone would be surprised, or is actually really expecting EP to become McKinnon.   Nobody saw that coming at all.   Would be like Skinner becoming Kucherov good.   In other words the COL model is 100% not the norm.   Sakic was crucified in the media a year and a half while he waited to make a trade on Duchene but nobody talks about that anymore given how well it worked out.   The Barrie trade was understandable at the time, COL didn't have a second line center and Kadri had lost any love in TO given his antics.  

 

What we as fans should expect, with say a re-set and a Miller trade, is a late first and something interesting project wise or a first and a second that's about it and the most we can expect.   The team that take Miller on likely also is missing a second line C or a first line LW, and is trying to push themselves over the edge.   Unless our drafting is amazing, we shouldn't expect much out of it other then a guy like Hogs in two years time at best.   That's factually actually above average.    Historically there is zero difference between a later first rounder (22/23 and beyond) and the entirety of the second round.    Lucky to get 200 games from them that's also above average.  

 

The flip side is, we could use the 5.25 million to get something useful.    It's not nearly as simple as what COL did.   They had luck on their side in two ways, one they picked OTT and and were patient enough with the pick back not to be right away.   That team imploded faster then ive ever seen - both a tragedy and a comedy.   All that good drafting went up in smoke!!   Zibanejad, Stone, EK, Pageua etc gone, and two NM of course exploding under a cost controlled deal. 

 

I don't have the answers but will say, we'd be extremely lucky to get even a lottery ticket from Miller.   Or even pick 11-15....and most likely that means a few years to see what we have.   So 2024ish.    Don't know exactly what the correct course of action is - but am getting a little tired of having nothing coming back and assets going elsewhere.   If we were a perennial playoff team i'd get that.   But we haven't been in a long long time now.

 

Edit:  I can't wait for McKinnon to ask for the 15% cap.   Or 15 million or whatever it works out to.   For sure he won't get paid less then Rantanen.   His payday will be massive...and COL will have to make a hockey trade to fit him in.

Edited November 23, 2021 by IBatch

[Danie_Canuck]

can we just rebuild our front office, scouting and coaching? lol

 

I think it is safe to say this year is a bust.  I don't see it turning around anytime soon. The Coquihalla is less of a disaster than Benning and Green. (too soon? and yes I know that is excessive hyperbole but Benning and Green are goofs)  

 

Player wise, I would like our D to get tightened up.  I like OEL, Hughes sure, but the dream would be to get Tanev back or a Tanev type of D-man.   A good solid working stay at home, hockey smart D man. 

 

Then maybe get our forwards scoring.... Petey looking at you kiddo gotta get those points on the board. 

[Ajax-]

On 11/20/2021 at 10:45 PM, hammertime said:

Yes 100%. 

 

Trade Bo Boeser and Miller return three 1sts ++ fully tank this year and next. 

 

Build around

 

Nils Pete Pod

Garland XXX  Klimovich

Motte Dickinson Pearson

XXX Focht Lockwood 

 

Hughes Myers

OEL XXX

Bone Woo 

 

Stock the cupboards in the next 2 drafts and come back stronger. 

 

Back stronger with more rookies in 2 years ? 

 

Do you honestly believe  Petey, Huggy and the core gang will support tanking for 2 more years? Don't think so imho

 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

Yes, I would support a rebuild, but not in the way that many others would.

 

My suggestion would be to keep everyone *except* Horvat and Miller.

 

1) Horvat and Miller should be moved for Braden Schneider+ and Cole Sillinger+..and then we go from there.

2) Qualify Boeser at the end of the season

 

3) Change the coach and the GM (if things get toxic with the fanbase) and implement a new system.

 

Future:

 

Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland

Pearson-Sillinger-Boeser

Dickinson-####-Klimovich

####-####-Lockwood

 

Hughes-Schneider

OEL-Myers

Rathbone-Poolman

 

Demko

Dipietro

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Patel Bure