[ PROPOSAL ] Trade Boeser + 2022 1st for top 2 D

[wildcam]

3 hours ago, EP4EVA said:

I think you read that wrong. I meant we trade Boeser and our 1st this year for a top 2 D. A stronger physical defenseman. Like a Chychrun or maybe one of the Avs D since they have a lot of younger skilled D coming up and not enough cap space.

Come on Boeser alone is worth top #2 D man under 26? Trade Boeser and a 1st rounder for #2 D man id just stupid sorry but come on?

Boeser is a 26 -30 G scorer 24years old not adding a 1st rounder with him for a #2 D man..NEVER NEVER..

[mll]

10 hours ago, khay said:

lol, with where they are in the standings, if they are in a rebuild, I don't even know what are we doing.

 

But agree regarding Boeser for Dumba trade. Dumba is not what we need.

 

After this season they will have 13M followed by 2 seasons at 15M on their books after buying out Parise/Suter.  Not really the cap space that contenders have.

 

When they play the top teams it's apparent that they still have some ways.  They can still beat them off hard work and their depth but it's one game in the regular season vs playoffs.  They have resiliency but still lack the lineup to really be considered among the top contenders.

 

Guerin's mandate is to build an elite team that can challenge for a Cup for multiple years -  not just one and done or an early exit.  As he builds that team they still want to make the playoffs.  It's not a tear down rebuild - maintaining a winning culture and having players earn their spots is part of it.

 

Ever since Guerin took over he has been trying to change their culture as well as making sure players develop and play the right way.

 

Guerin has complained about the country club atmosphere where he felt they had players who wanted to play at home more than for hockey reasons.  He also felt that they lacked the closeness that winning teams have.

 

In parallel to fixing their culture, they have also been turning players into picks/prospects.  Guerin has given up a pick for a player only once - conditional 7th round pick for Bjugstad and they ended up keeping the pick because the conditions weren't met.  Wouldn't be surprising if players like Fiala, Greenway get traded for futures.

 

They aren't selling off anyone and everyone though.  Guys like Foligno, Hartman represent everything they want the Wild to be about.  EriksonEk and Kaprizov are key building blocks.   

 

They will likely also continue to bring in veterans through free agency till they feel their prospects are ready to be lineup regulars and make the impact they project for them. They tried to sign Nick Foligno in free agency for example but he felt the Bruins were all in while the Wild are between two chairs.

[Alflives]

11 hours ago, mll said:

Arizona is building around Chychrun - teams don’t move D1s and he’s younger than Boeser and on a solid contract.  They are doing a quick and intentional tank to hoard draft picks.  

Except for the Habs:  Sergachev for Drouin.  

As badly as Chychrun is playing though, he might be had for less than Bess.  

[mll]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Except for the Habs:  Sergachev for Drouin.  

As badly as Chychrun is playing though, he might be had for less than Bess.  

Arizona is deliberately tanking. They want to hoard draft picks and rebuild quickly as Armstrong explained to LeBrun.  Chychrun is a key building block.  Look at the team around him.  There's not a chance for anyone to look good.

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by mll

[JM_]

34 minutes ago, mll said:

Arizona is deliberately tanking. They want to hoard draft picks and rebuild quickly as Armstrong explained to LeBrun.  Chychrun is a key building block.  Look at the team around him.  There's not a chance for anyone to look good.

 

this is why the lotto system needs fixing. Putting out deliberate trash and getting a guaranteed reward needs to stop.

[mll]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

this is why the lotto system needs fixing. Putting out deliberate trash and getting a guaranteed reward needs to stop.

They've made changes earlier this year but it doesn't look like it would prevent a team from tanking.  If Arizona ends up last and wins the lottery they technically haven't moved up so not sure it would be considered as a lottery win.

 

From the NHL website announcing the change:

 

Two other changes will begin with the 2022 NHL Draft Lottery:

-- Teams will be restricted from moving up more than 10 spots if it wins one of the lottery draws.

-- Teams cannot win the lottery more than twice in a five-year period. Wins in the lottery prior to 2022 will not be counted toward this total.

The NHL said the changes will reduce the likelihood of the worst-finishing team dropping in the draft order and not retaining the right to the No. 1 pick; reduce the magnitude of any possible drop in draft order for the worst-finishing team; limit the number of teams eligible to win the No. 1 pick (based on final regular-season standings); and limit the number of times the same team can benefit from winning a lottery drawing.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, mll said:

They've made changes earlier this year but it doesn't look like it would prevent a team from tanking.  If Arizona ends up last and wins the lottery they technically haven't moved up so not sure it would be considered as a lottery win.

 

From the NHL website announcing the change:

 

Two other changes will begin with the 2022 NHL Draft Lottery:

-- Teams will be restricted from moving up more than 10 spots if it wins one of the lottery draws.

-- Teams cannot win the lottery more than twice in a five-year period. Wins in the lottery prior to 2022 will not be counted toward this total.

The NHL said the changes will reduce the likelihood of the worst-finishing team dropping in the draft order and not retaining the right to the No. 1 pick; reduce the magnitude of any possible drop in draft order for the worst-finishing team; limit the number of teams eligible to win the No. 1 pick (based on final regular-season standings); and limit the number of times the same team can benefit from winning a lottery drawing.

for me that doesn't go far enough. Every idea has its own downsides, tho. In markets where extended tanking won't be tolerated this might make sense, but in places like AZ with such a small fan base they could do this for 4 or 5 years.

[mll]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

for me that doesn't go far enough. Every idea has its own downsides, tho. In markets where extended tanking won't be tolerated this might make sense, but in places like AZ with such a small fan base they could do this for 4 or 5 years.

Meruelo is looking to make money though.  He bought the Coyotes because he believes that the Hispanic market is untapped and has a lot of potential.  They've hired some people with solid reputation in drafting.  They got one of the top guys from Tampa. 

[JM_]

Just now, mll said:

Meruelo is looking to make money though.  He bought the Coyotes because he believes that the Hispanic market is untapped and has a lot of potential.  They've hired some people with solid reputation in drafting.  They got one of the top guys from Tampa. 

if he can land Matthews I think he can pull that off. Its just the intentional tanking for 2 more seasons until AM's a UFA that bothers me.

[mll]

10 minutes ago, JM_ said:

if he can land Matthews I think he can pull that off. Its just the intentional tanking for 2 more seasons until AM's a UFA that bothers me.

If they tank that long - how long till Chychrun and their other young players want out.  Why would Matthews want to go to a team that is rebuilding too.  He can spend the off-season in Arizona and doesn't have to spend the whole year there.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, mll said:

If they tank that long - how long till Chychrun and their other young players want out.  Why would Matthews want to go to a team that is rebuilding too.  He can spend the off-season in Arizona and doesn't have to spend the whole year there.  

depends on how big the home town thing is for him I guess.

 

---

 

Hey on a totally unrelated thing - what do you think it would take for the Canucks to get Greenway? would Rathbone be enough?

[mll]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

depends on how big the home town thing is for him I guess.

 

---

 

Hey on a totally unrelated thing - what do you think it would take for the Canucks to get Greenway? would Rathbone be enough?

 

Futures - picks or prospects as they are facing some significant cap issues over the next 3 coming seasons.  Guerin would consult with Brackett so would guess that Rathbone could interest them. 

 

Russo believes Greenway will end up being traded - cap crunch and consistency issues.  He had an underwhelming start to the season and needed a pep talk from Evason to get going.  He often has to be reminded to use his size.  There are some players that have a natural edge but that doesn't seem to be in him.  He can PK and win puck battles.

 

After the bubble Guerin criticised Greenway but made it clear that he was unwilling to give up on him because he has such unique tools and when he is on he can be a real force.  If they finally decide to move on, it suggests that they don't feel he'll play up to his potential consistently enough to be worth retaining.

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by mll

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Futures - picks or prospects as they are facing some significant cap issues over the next 3 coming seasons.  Guerin would consult with Brackett so would guess that Rathbone could interest them. 

 

Russo believes Greenway will end up being traded - cap crunch and consistency issues.  He had an underwhelming start to the season and needed a pep talk from Evason to get going.  He often has to be reminded to use his size.  There are some players that have a natural edge but that doesn't seem to be in him.  He can PK and win puck battles.

 

After the bubble Guerin criticised Greenway but made it clear that he was unwilling to give up on him because he has such unique tools and when he is on he can be a real force.  If they finally decide to move on, it suggests that they don't feel he'll play up to his potential consistently enough to be worth retaining.

 

thx, I like your read on Minni.

 

I do think Rathone would be a bit of an overpayment, but if we wanted to bulk up with a younger player like Greenway during the season, it would cost us. Also totally agree on Brackett being high on JR.

 

 

[higgyfan]

As a Brock fan, I wouldn't be happy with a trade unless he got a premium return.  Currently, he is underperforming, so it would be bad timing to attempt a trade right now. 

 

I have no doubt that he will get his game back and return to the level we have seen in the past.  Imo, Brock playing at his best, is a better player than any of the other RWs on the team.  It's hard to understand how this trade makes the team better, unless a valuable player + 1st round pick comes back.

 

I see the Rangers as the ideal trading partner for Boes.  They have a huge deficit at RW (Kakko still has a ways to go and the others are not good at all). 

 

Brock to NY for Ryan Lindgren LD + Late 1st round pick (NY are a p/o team this season).

Lindgen plays an old school defensive game; he's a tough defender and relentless along the boards and in front of the net.  His offensive game is still under construction.  NY places a high value on this player, so may refuse a trade.

 

Brock to NY for Filip Chytil (C) + 1st round pick.  Young, gangly player that has a huge upside; skill and physicality.  Currently, he plays bottom 6 C, but is projected to become 2C.  Plays a 2-way game, good skater, hard to knock off the puck.  Strong defensive game; offensive game under construction.  NY probably would counter with a 2nd rather than 1st overall.

 

 

 

 

 

[EP4EVA]

5 hours ago, higgyfan said:

As a Brock fan, I wouldn't be happy with a trade unless he got a premium return.  Currently, he is underperforming, so it would be bad timing to attempt a trade right now. 

 

I have no doubt that he will get his game back and return to the level we have seen in the past.  Imo, Brock playing at his best, is a better player than any of the other RWs on the team.  It's hard to understand how this trade makes the team better, unless a valuable player + 1st round pick comes back.

 

I see the Rangers as the ideal trading partner for Boes.  They have a huge deficit at RW (Kakko still has a ways to go and the others are not good at all). 

 

Brock to NY for Ryan Lindgren LD + Late 1st round pick (NY are a p/o team this season).

Lindgen plays an old school defensive game; he's a tough defender and relentless along the boards and in front of the net.  His offensive game is still under construction.  NY places a high value on this player, so may refuse a trade.

 

Brock to NY for Filip Chytil (C) + 1st round pick.  Young, gangly player that has a huge upside; skill and physicality.  Currently, he plays bottom 6 C, but is projected to become 2C.  Plays a 2-way game, good skater, hard to knock off the puck.  Strong defensive game; offensive game under construction.  NY probably would counter with a 2nd rather than 1st overall.

 

 

 

 

 

I really like the first of the two trades. I agree NY wants to win now and with Kakko underperforming I believe they would be the ideal trading partner. They already have Fox and got him for nothing so I see a lot of leeway there.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:25 AM, mll said:

 

Futures - picks or prospects as they are facing some significant cap issues over the next 3 coming seasons.  Guerin would consult with Brackett so would guess that Rathbone could interest them. 

 

Russo believes Greenway will end up being traded - cap crunch and consistency issues.  He had an underwhelming start to the season and needed a pep talk from Evason to get going.  He often has to be reminded to use his size.  There are some players that have a natural edge but that doesn't seem to be in him.  He can PK and win puck battles.

 

After the bubble Guerin criticised Greenway but made it clear that he was unwilling to give up on him because he has such unique tools and when he is on he can be a real force.  If they finally decide to move on, it suggests that they don't feel he'll play up to his potential consistently enough to be worth retaining.

 

 

On 11/21/2021 at 11:46 AM, JM_ said:

thx, I like your read on Minni.

 

I do think Rathone would be a bit of an overpayment, but if we wanted to bulk up with a younger player like Greenway during the season, it would cost us. Also totally agree on Brackett being high on JR.

 

 

Damn I would do that swap in a millisecond (and then hire Boudreau who relied on Greenway a fair amount for a rookie). I could see Greenway - Dickinson - Motte/Podkolzin/Hoggie having a similar affect to the GEEK line in Minne

[sockeye]

We should've traded Brock a year or two ago when he was at the top of his game and his value was at its peak.  This team is not going to make the playoffs so why would you want to give up a 2022 1st round pick?  

 

I like Brock as a person but he is a little bit weak defensively and on the boards.  Also, his skating speed needs to improve.  Unfortunately, we waited too long to trade him.  I would be happy with a solid top 4 RHD straight up for Brock (or a top RHD prospect).  Lets not give up any more picks (been there and done that and how has that worked for us?).

Edited November 23, 2021 by sockeye

[NHL'er]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:25 AM, mll said:

Russo believes Greenway will end up being traded - cap crunch and consistency issues.  He had an underwhelming start to the season and needed a pep talk from Evason to get going.  He often has to be reminded to use his size.  There are some players that have a natural edge but that doesn't seem to be in him.  He can PK and win puck battles.

 

After the bubble Guerin criticised Greenway but made it clear that he was unwilling to give up on him because he has such unique tools and when he is on he can be a real force.  If they finally decide to move on, it suggests that they don't feel he'll play up to his potential consistently enough to be worth retaining.

 

I had enough of that hockey frustration with JV and ZK. No more pls. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

The problem is a lot of the defencemen we really need (for example a left OR right handed early 20-year old future 1st pairing defenceman) is basically untouchable on their respective teams. We need a future Hedman and sadly the best way to acquire these guys is via the draft so to be honest the best way to do this is to throw away players for high 1st round picks.

 

We've got a better chance getting a star defenceman that way than through trades because I doubt teams will flip their star defencemen, especially for a forward who has 4 goals in 16 games. Of course, we need some scouts and a GM who knows what they're looking for but star defencemen are pretty easy to spot in the draft..

[KKnight]

Why has everybody given up on Brock? Suggestions of trading him for a 3C and a 1st? Wtf. You don't trade players like Brock for a 3C and a 1st.