iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 On 11/21/2021 at 12:37 PM, RU SERIOUS said: REALLY ? we were playing like $&!# against the knights last week but dominated them for a good chunk of the first period, if Jim was that bad, no way would this team dominate anyone for any amount of time, let alone Vegas... point your finger at yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, iceman64 said: we're 1 D short, relax.... Rathbone was a gamble to see if he could keep up and he almost did. we don't have to trade a core player and a 1st pick to get a top 4 D btw.. a 1st and a "decent" prospect or that has promise would do, other teams are up against the cap too that will need to make room for raises so it's hardly impossible for trader Jim to pull one off.. Where does the cap come from for such a trade by Benning? If he can fit the cap in without moving a significant roster player, chances are it’s not really a top 4 D he is getting and this not worth trading a 1st. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, iceman64 said: we were playing like $&!# against the knights last week but dominated them for a good chunk of the first period, if Jim was that bad, no way would this team dominate anyone for any amount of time, let alone Vegas... point your finger at yourself.... This doesn’t even make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, iceman64 said: we were playing like $&!# against the knights last week but dominated them for a good chunk of the first period, if Jim was that bad, no way would this team dominate anyone for any amount of time, let alone Vegas... point your finger at yourself.... The Knights were injury plagued and still are today. Missing a lot of their top 9, and multiple D and just got Stone back that game who's the only member of their top line healthy even today. So a decimated Knights squad scored 7 goals against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said: This doesn’t even make sense. ok we're still just getting started as a team with a lot of changes and all the crap at the start of the year, players out injured etc, new players in learning our guys and the way they play plus our systems that slowed the whole process down that only time will help.. In the middle of all this, we take on a team like Vegas and dominate them for almost a full period. How is this JB failing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, iceman64 said: ok we're still just getting started as a team with a lot of changes and all the crap at the start of the year, players out injured etc, new players in learning our guys and the way they play plus our systems that slowed the whole process down that only time will help.. In the middle of all this, we take on a team like Vegas and dominate them for almost a full period. How is this JB failing? Still getting started as a team? All of training camp and a quarter of the season isn’t just getting rolling bud. It’s a failure of Benning because the roster isn’t good enough and the coach and systems are terrible. We got shelled by a team that actually had IMPORTANT players injured or just returning from injury. Having a couple of 4th liners and a 3rd pairing quality dman out of the lineup is about as healthy as any team can expect to be in the NHL. Being able to dominate a team for part of a period isn’t an accomplishment. It’s the bare minimum for an nhl team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Moral victories, excuses, shifting blame, apathy toward losing, and stubbornness to not make any changes despite 5 years of evidence the systems are garbage. Thats the Canucks identity. And that comes directly from Benning and Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said: Still getting started as a team? All of training camp and a quarter of the season isn’t just getting rolling bud. It’s a failure of Benning because the roster isn’t good enough and the coach and systems are terrible. We got shelled by a team that actually had IMPORTANT players injured or just returning from injury. Having a couple of 4th liners and a 3rd pairing quality dman out of the lineup is about as healthy as any team can expect to be in the NHL. Being able to dominate a team for part of a period isn’t an accomplishment. It’s the bare minimum for an nhl team. so your saying that playing ANY well established team with lines that have played seasons together vs us as team with all the changes at a distinct disadvantage to start with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Moral victories, excuses, shifting blame, apathy toward losing, and stubbornness to not make any changes despite 5 years of evidence the systems are garbage. Thats the Canucks identity. And that comes directly from Benning and Green. what? the truth hurts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, iceman64 said: what? the truth hurts? 3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Moral victories, excuses, shifting blame, apathy toward losing, and stubbornness to not make any changes despite 5 years of evidence the systems are garbage. Thats the Canucks identity. And that comes directly from Benning and Green. answer me this.. have YOU actually played hockey? Like full on gear on a team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, iceman64 said: what? the truth hurts? Just now, iceman64 said: answer me this.. have YOU actually played hockey? Like full on gear on a team? What does that have to do with anything? The answer is yes btw. I played up to mid way through university when I suffered a couple of really bad injuries and couldn’t play competitively anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, wallstreetamigo said: What does that have to do with anything? The answer is yes btw. I played up to mid way through university when I suffered a couple of really bad injuries and couldn’t play competitively anymore. ok then you'd understand this, the team I was on lost players that we grew up with and we had a power house team and then new players, we got through it BUT I couldn't tell where my new center was going to be without thinking... which was the case before that and same with other lines. Dude it was a shock! but it took time.. did we like it? F no! BUT eventually we got back on our feet again, this is on the players, not JB and Green but if Green went and was replaced by a proven long time ish record, I could care less.. So it being on the players is only how much time it will take for the adjustment and that's all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, iceman64 said: ok then you'd understand this, the team I was on lost players that we grew up with and we had a power house team and then new players, we got through it BUT I couldn't tell where my new center was going to be without thinking... which was the case before that and same with other lines. Dude it was a shock! but it took time.. did we like it? F no! BUT eventually we got back on our feet again, this is on the players, not JB and Green but if Green went and was replaced by a proven long time ish record, I could care less.. So it being on the players is only how much time it will take for the adjustment and that's all.. Then you would understand that the absolute best move for a coach with that much turnover on his roster is to use the first few games of training camp to experiment with some combos and the last few letting them learn each others tendencies and build some chemistry. Then when the season starts, keep them together and suffer the lumps until they gel rather than blendering the lines every 3rd shift. The lack of chemistry and cohesiveness is 100% a coaching issue after this many games. The last year I played, our entire top 6 other than me turned over from the previous year. Good thing we had great coaches who understood how to get us building chemistry quickly. Edited November 23, 2021 by wallstreetamigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Then you would understand that the absolute best move for a coach with that much turnover on his roster is to use the first few games of training camp to experiment with some combos and the last few letting them learn each others tendencies and build some chemistry. Then when the season starts, keep them together and suffer the lumps until they gel rather than blendering the lines every 3rd shift. The lack of chemistry and cohesiveness is 100% a coaching issue after this many games. The last year I played, our entire top 6 other than me turned over from the previous year. Good thing we had great coaches who understood how to get us building chemistry quickly. so every circumstance is different.. and the NHL is the fastest league in the world but I agree somewhat, but that's on TG for bowing to too much to pressure and trying to do too much with his guns. Not having Petey, Hughes, Sutter, motte, didn't help.. and neither a newbie in Podz learning everything on the fly, maybe he just panicked or something, idk, I think he'd be better at being an assistant coach specializing in time developing the young guys as he proved in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Then you would understand that the absolute best move for a coach with that much turnover on his roster is to use the first few games of training camp to experiment with some combos and the last few letting them learn each others tendencies and build some chemistry. Then when the season starts, keep them together and suffer the lumps until they gel rather than blendering the lines every 3rd shift. The lack of chemistry and cohesiveness is 100% a coaching issue after this many games. The last year I played, our entire top 6 other than me turned over from the previous year. Good thing we had great coaches who understood how to get us building chemistry quickly. oh yeah, any way the few games I've gotten to watch, the team is getting better despite TG.. not huge better but small steps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, iceman64 said: so every circumstance is different.. and the NHL is the fastest league in the world but I agree somewhat, but that's on TG for bowing to too much to pressure and trying to do too much with his guns. Not having Petey, Hughes, Sutter, motte, didn't help.. and neither a newbie in Podz learning everything on the fly, maybe he just panicked or something, idk, I think he'd be better at being an assistant coach specializing in time developing the young guys as he proved in the past. The players need a new voice. And new systems that play to their strengths. The team has no identity. The coach wants them to play dump and chase but the majority of the forward roster isn’t built to play that way. They are puck possession/puck support and off the rush type players. The defense has mostly transition type dmen who can make a good first pass and use their skating to defend. He has them playing stationary collapsing defense and chip it off the boards and out zone exits. The personnel doesn’t fit the systems being coached here. It’s obvious at this point. If Benning can’t see it then he should be fired too. Edited November 23, 2021 by wallstreetamigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: The players need a new voice. And new systems that play to their strengths. The team has no identity. The coach wants them to play dump and chase but the majority of the forward roster isn’t built to play that way. They are puck possession/puck support and off the rush type players. The defense has mostly transition type dmen who can make a good first pass and use their skating to defend. He has them playing stationary collapsing defense and chip it off the boards and out zone exits. The personnel doesn’t fit the systems being coached here. It’s obvious at this point. If Benning can’t see it then he should be fired too. I disagree, we have players who have the speed for dump and chase but that system is ALL about timing, when we are that possession team you speak of which I agree with we haven't fast enough with the passes and shots but those need time but still can be pulled off.. The D is trying to make too many stretch passes instead of the forwards being close for easy zone exits, that's actually pissing me off but I think TG is getting that since it wasn't working anywhere near what it can be... and I believe WILL be, and team D as a whole is getting better. I still believe you can have the best systems going but the guys not quite there yet can't stand up against teams that already have it down. Yet even coming close is a pretty big step forward... if TG is in the way and has to be let go then so be it but I like the way things are improving, yeah there's work to be done but at least this isn't 2013.. I'm still into giving it time, if this team wasn't new and been all playing together at their prime, heck ya I'd say the same... however I'm aware of COVID and no 10 mil cap increase for 2 years that would have meant Toffoli and a top four D here, things would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, iceman64 said: I disagree, we have players who have the speed for dump and chase but that system is ALL about timing, when we are that possession team you speak of which I agree with we haven't fast enough with the passes and shots but those need time but still can be pulled off.. The D is trying to make too many stretch passes instead of the forwards being close for easy zone exits, that's actually pissing me off but I think TG is getting that since it wasn't working anywhere near what it can be... and I believe WILL be, and team D as a whole is getting better. I still believe you can have the best systems going but the guys not quite there yet can't stand up against teams that already have it down. Yet even coming close is a pretty big step forward... if TG is in the way and has to be let go then so be it but I like the way things are improving, yeah there's work to be done but at least this isn't 2013.. I'm still into giving it time, if this team wasn't new and been all playing together at their prime, heck ya I'd say the same... however I'm aware of COVID and no 10 mil cap increase for 2 years that would have meant Toffoli and a top four D here, things would be different. Dump and chase relies on both speed and the ability to win puck battles and punish defensemen. Our roster is pretty short on guys who do all of that consistently. The forwards are the biggest problem on the breakout. They can’t accept passes at speed and attack through the neutral zone with speed which makes a dump and chase style even worse. Toffoli could have been kept. Tanev too. All it would have taken is getting rid of Virtanen and maybe a couple of bad contracts and not signing Holtby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Dump and chase relies on both speed and the ability to win puck battles and punish defensemen. Our roster is pretty short on guys who do all of that consistently. The forwards are the biggest problem on the breakout. They can’t accept passes at speed and attack through the neutral zone with speed which makes a dump and chase style even worse. Toffoli could have been kept. Tanev too. All it would have taken is getting rid of Virtanen and maybe a couple of bad contracts and not signing Holtby. idk I didn't have to punish anyone, or hardly ever, I could out skate most guys, I'm 6'2 and have been since 17, but the years I got with my regular line of my 2 personal friends, I didn't score many goals but piled up assists like no tomorrow, speed kills and we have that. Hogs, Garland, and Podz and Miller can turn and burn, and same with Bo when he goes beast mode like against Vegas when Demko stood on his head.. we have the guys, we just have to make the adjustments in execution that will come more consistently. I believe it will, if not then yeah more changes to get us over the hump but we're close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Dump and chase relies on both speed and the ability to win puck battles and punish defensemen. Our roster is pretty short on guys who do all of that consistently. The forwards are the biggest problem on the breakout. They can’t accept passes at speed and attack through the neutral zone with speed which makes a dump and chase style even worse. Toffoli could have been kept. Tanev too. All it would have taken is getting rid of Virtanen and maybe a couple of bad contracts and not signing Holtby. Well our biggest need wasn't a "Toffoli" it was an OEL, and honestly we needed 2 but all we could afford was 1.. I've hated that cap ever since it was imposed. I still say the cap was the only thing stopping us from signing a top pairing tough as nails BIG Dman away from a second shot at the cup in 2013.. grrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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