Will Benning trade our 22 1st round pick?

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

idk I didn't have to punish anyone, or hardly ever, I could out skate most guys, I'm 6'2 and have been since 17, but the years I got with my regular line of my 2 personal friends, I didn't score many goals but piled up assists like no tomorrow, speed kills and we have that. Hogs, Garland, and Podz and Miller can turn and burn, and same with Bo when he goes beast mode like against Vegas when Demko stood on his head..

we have the guys, we just have to make the adjustments in execution that will come more consistently. I believe it will, if not then yeah more changes to get us over the hump but we're close. 

When I watch the Canucks there are a few things I notice. Their best offensive chances are usually created off the rush. Rarely do they actually take advantage of dump and chase and generate zone time. They lose puck battles or do a drive by way too often, especially on the dump and chase. That just amounts to giving up possession too easily. Opposing dmen don’t really fear taking the time to make a good play against them.
 

I guess I am from a different time too though. 6’4, 215 lbs in my playing days and never gave up a chance to lay a hit especially on a dump and chase. Dmen don’t like being hit and will make quick but bad decisions if they know you aren’t going to just do a drive-by. Chasing hits is one thing. Finishing them is another. And it’s underrated for dump and chase type teams.

[iceman64]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

When I watch the Canucks there are a few things I notice. Their best offensive chances are usually created off the rush. Rarely do they actually take advantage of dump and chase and generate zone time. They lose puck battles or do a drive by way too often, especially on the dump and chase. That just amounts to giving up possession too easily. Opposing dmen don’t really fear taking the time to make a good play against them.
 

I guess I am from a different time too though. 6’4, 215 lbs in my playing days and never gave up a chance to lay a hit especially on a dump and chase. Dmen don’t like being hit and will make quick but bad decisions if they know you aren’t going to just do a drive-by. Chasing hits is one thing. Finishing them is another. And it’s underrated for dump and chase type teams.

No I get that, that was how the Canucks played through the playoff's to go up against Boston in 2012 but we didn't have the D depth or size to finish them off. I'm all for a fast forecheck which green is "trying" do with dump and chase with speed and forcing turnovers but it has to be with the right players playing on top of their games but I'm still seeing signs of it coming..  

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, iceman64 said:

No I get that, that was how the Canucks played through the playoff's to go up against Boston in 2012 but we didn't have the D depth or size to finish them off. I'm all for a fast forecheck which green is "trying" do with dump and chase with speed and forcing turnovers but it has to be with the right players playing on top of their games but I'm still seeing signs of it coming..  

Green works too hard trying to get matchups he wants. Most of the time they are terrible matchups too like putting out his 4th line against the other teams 1st line on an icing call. Dump and chase too frequently gives way to dump and change. 
 

This is a skill roster. They are fast but need to make plays to be effective. A quick transition game and attacking with speed while maintaining possession and setting up in the offensive zone.

 

This team will never be successful with a dump and chase style. 

[Canuck Surfer]

I  hope not?

 

I also did not want to trade a 1st for Miller.  Nor Garland. Its not that they did not represent value?

 

I believe in building through the draft. 

[iceman64]

9 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Green works too hard trying to get matchups he wants. Most of the time they are terrible matchups too like putting out his 4th line against the other teams 1st line on an icing call. Dump and chase too frequently gives way to dump and change. 
 

This is a skill roster. They are fast but need to make plays to be effective. A quick transition game and attacking with speed while maintaining possession and setting up in the offensive zone.

 

This team will never be successful with a dump and chase style. 

yes of course, if their still like this in 10-15 games, I wouldn't say anything BUT no team ever lives and dies on a single system but I think as players ease in with steady lines that can execute better passing by shortening them up and better support and not give away odd man rushes or penalties, we'll see more success but yeah it needs work.. 

[RU SERIOUS]

5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Where does the cap come from for such a trade by Benning? If he can fit the cap in without moving a significant roster player, chances are it’s not really a top 4 D he is getting and this not worth trading a 1st.

Agree!   If we continue to lose & uncle jim is still GM in the next week or two, almost certain green will be terminated and if not (god forbid) then there will be a major shake up on the team with one of the top players punted from the team for that top 4 D or he'll sacrifice yet another 1st round pick out of desperation to save his job.    The only solution is to get rid of BOTH of them ASAP, get a temp coach in place until we can hire a new normal GM - then start a Formal Rebuild - which is what should have done 10 years ago.   Anyhthing less is just patchwork!

Edited November 23, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[RU SERIOUS]

2 hours ago, iceman64 said:

yes of course, if their still like this in 10-15 games, I wouldn't say anything BUT no team ever lives and dies on a single system but I think as players ease in with steady lines that can execute better passing by shortening them up and better support and not give away odd man rushes or penalties, we'll see more success but yeah it needs work.. 

...didn't you say wait 8-10 games 12 games ago????   

Edited November 23, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[appleboy]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I  hope not?

 

I also did not want to trade a 1st for Miller.  Nor Garland. Its not that they did not represent value?

 

I believe in building through the draft. 

No, no building through the draft takes too long.  Oh, wait .

Developing our own talent also helps to manage our cap. You don't overpay bottom six.

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

...didn't you say wait 8-10 games 12 games ago????   

ok so it's taking more, sue me 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

When I watch the Canucks there are a few things I notice. Their best offensive chances are usually created off the rush. Rarely do they actually take advantage of dump and chase and generate zone time. They lose puck battles or do a drive by way too often, especially on the dump and chase. That just amounts to giving up possession too easily. Opposing dmen don’t really fear taking the time to make a good play against them.
 

I guess I am from a different time too though. 6’4, 215 lbs in my playing days and never gave up a chance to lay a hit especially on a dump and chase. Dmen don’t like being hit and will make quick but bad decisions if they know you aren’t going to just do a drive-by. Chasing hits is one thing. Finishing them is another. And it’s underrated for dump and chase type teams.

In your playing days everyone finished their checks - today it happens so infrequently in comparison i wonder if they actually count finished a check as a hit.   Go back and watch any 90's game ... watch some Lindros highlights just for fun while your at it (now that guy could hit!!) it's like a completely different game.   I wonder if because the redline is gone how much that's changed the rest of the game.   Getting out of position, even a little bit, can quickly burn you now.   Something has happened though, it's not just the Canucks it's league wide.   That push for fringe players to make the league meant hard hard rough and tough playing for fringe guys back then.   Now?  Not so much.   

[iceman64]

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

In your playing days everyone finished their checks - today it happens so infrequently in comparison i wonder if they actually count finished a check as a hit.   Go back and watch any 90's game ... watch some Lindros highlights just for fun while your at it (now that guy could hit!!) it's like a completely different game.   I wonder if because the redline is gone how much that's changed the rest of the game.   Getting out of position, even a little bit, can quickly burn you now.   Something has happened though, it's not just the Canucks it's league wide.   That push for fringe players to make the league meant hard hard rough and tough playing for fringe guys back then.   Now?  Not so much.   

 

[Eddie]

I honestly don't want Benning trading any of the core or our valuable futures. 

 

He had his chance - he built a core that has, thus far, totally not worked. He had enough time, spent enough money and sold enough assets to make it work. 

 

And it just ... Hasn't 

 

Were not one piece away - were realistically 80% of a team away right now on current performance.  If were gonna trade core pieces or core futures get a new GM with a different vision to do it. J.B has to fix this mess with what he has, Change the coach : sure - Trade a Pearson, Dickinson, Myers, OEL : Sure.  But, can't be trusted to dig the hole were in even deeper tho - If he is ,then Aqua needs to take a long hard look at his strategy of putting good money after bad.

 

 

[iceman64]

25 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I honestly don't want Benning trading any of the core or our valuable futures. 

 

He had his chance - he built a core that has, thus far, totally not worked. He had enough time, spent enough money and sold enough assets to make it work. 

 

And it just ... Hasn't 

 

Were not one piece away - were realistically 80% of a team away right now on current performance.  If were gonna trade core pieces or core futures get a new GM with a different vision to do it. J.B has to fix this mess with what he has, Change the coach : sure - Trade a Pearson, Dickinson, Myers, OEL : Sure.  But, can't be trusted to dig the hole were in even deeper tho - If he is ,then Aqua needs to take a long hard look at his strategy of putting good money after bad.

 

 

the salary cap says hi...  with the 10 mil we probably would have got for 2 seasons of cap raise (minimum) we'd be where JB predicted we'd be but we all know how that went thanks to covid

[iceman64]

50 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I honestly don't want Benning trading any of the core or our valuable futures. 

 

He had his chance - he built a core that has, thus far, totally not worked. He had enough time, spent enough money and sold enough assets to make it work. 

 

And it just ... Hasn't 

 

Were not one piece away - were realistically 80% of a team away right now on current performance.  If were gonna trade core pieces or core futures get a new GM with a different vision to do it. J.B has to fix this mess with what he has, Change the coach : sure - Trade a Pearson, Dickinson, Myers, OEL : Sure.  But, can't be trusted to dig the hole were in even deeper tho - If he is ,then Aqua needs to take a long hard look at his strategy of putting good money after bad.

 

 

have you actually been watching for the last 40 years and paying attention? 

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, iceman64 said:

have you actually been watching for the last 40 years and paying attention? 

Sorry not sure what point your trying to make ?

What does 40 years have to do with seeing that the team that has currently taken 8 years to assemble is completely terrible ? And to answer your question no - I have only watched the team for 18 years.

 

I also don't see what your point on the salary cap has to do with it.  Hell put McDavid on a ELC on this team and we still don't make the playoffs on current form.  Many other teams have beaten us with 3-4 of their best players out.

 

To be this bad - Either the locker room is lazy or disfunctional , the team composition is horrifically wrong, the coaching is bad to the point the players can't execute on it - or we are just cursed. This team is not working - we are not winning. 

Now if they can turn it around and hit form with it - sure i'm happy for JB to trade our next 4 firsts if he wants - but he hasn't been able to prove to this end he can produce a winning roster - so why risk yet more collatoral on a regime that has not provided success over a very generous timeline.

 

 

[iceman64]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Sorry not sure what point your trying to make ?

What does 40 years have to do with seeing that the team that has currently taken 8 years to assemble is completely terrible ? And to answer your question no - I have only watched the team for 18 years.

 

I also don't see what your point on the salary cap has to do with it.  Hell put McDavid on a ELC on this team and we still don't make the playoffs on current form.  Many other teams have beaten us with 3-4 of their best players out.

 

To be this bad - Either the locker room is lazy or disfunctional , the team composition is horrifically wrong, the coaching is bad to the point the players can't execute on it - or we are just cursed. This team is not working - we are not winning. 

Now if they can turn it around and hit form with it - sure i'm happy for JB to trade our next 4 firsts if he wants - but he hasn't been able to prove to this end he can produce a winning roster - so why risk yet more collatoral on a regime that has not provided success over a very generous timeline.

 

 

ok 1 by 1, this team as it is today is a lot better, no not playing better "atm" but that will come since we're still new but this team sure has made some of our other rosters over the last 40 years look really bad, for now yes on paper BUT leading into 2, with the 10 mil we'd still have Toffi and probably picked up another D and simply with those 2 things we'd have looked a LOT better today and won more games.

 So yes the cap has a lot to do with it, today we still miss that but thankfully JB, it seems to me took a gamble that Podz would come in and play his style of game but heavier. 

 And execution gets better and better the more we play, and add to that if we do pull off a trade and a pick, a D is all we really need as Garland came in better than expected. 

 Andddd next season, or maybe this season at some point we see Klim but for now this is still a work in progress but plug like players like chaisson, hunt will be gone as better players come available in the off season.

 However I agree that it's on said roster as it is now, do we have to get better? sure, showing up for a game where we play a full 60 of hard skating pressure well executed hockey is the end all but again we're new so off to a slow and shaky start but I see it coming together.

 Otherwise there's been glitches that have made it harder than it should have been and is, Alien and Hughes not signed, Podz new, Hamonic out, our 2 best PK's out.. was hardly anywhere near the start we wanted but what Im saying is, the cap not being available to keep Toffi and to sign a tough skilled D would have made a difference even if not a ton, some would have made it a lot easier.

 I actually do not want to see any picks given unless it's full value, and get our D sorted out. There's enough talent up front that won't be stopped for too long before breaking out but we have to have that D man.. 

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Sorry not sure what point your trying to make ?

What does 40 years have to do with seeing that the team that has currently taken 8 years to assemble is completely terrible ? And to answer your question no - I have only watched the team for 18 years.

 

I also don't see what your point on the salary cap has to do with it.  Hell put McDavid on a ELC on this team and we still don't make the playoffs on current form.  Many other teams have beaten us with 3-4 of their best players out.

 

To be this bad - Either the locker room is lazy or disfunctional , the team composition is horrifically wrong, the coaching is bad to the point the players can't execute on it - or we are just cursed. This team is not working - we are not winning. 

Now if they can turn it around and hit form with it - sure i'm happy for JB to trade our next 4 firsts if he wants - but he hasn't been able to prove to this end he can produce a winning roster - so why risk yet more collatoral on a regime that has not provided success over a very generous timeline.

 

 

94% of "NORMAL" fans agree entirely with you as shown by a poll today with thousands "speaking up" on Donnie & Dhali show on CHEK TV.  Is it coincidence that the 6% percentage amount of people who still trust uncle Jim, happens to be the same 6% percentage of Anti-Vax, Area-51/Flat Earth Conspiracy theorist who will never admit their wrong-because their always right - crowd ?  Huh?

 

 

 

Donnie & Dhali

@DonnieandDhali

·

Poll question: Do you trust Jim Benning to make a major trade right now? Email: TheTeam @ Chekmedia dot ca Text: 604-200-9494

•  

  Yes

  6.5%
•  

  No

  93.5%

5,269 votes·Final results

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[Bure_of_94]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

I honestly don't want Benning trading any of the core or our valuable futures. 

 

He had his chance - he built a core that has, thus far, totally not worked. He had enough time, spent enough money and sold enough assets to make it work. 

 

And it just ... Hasn't 

 

Were not one piece away - were realistically 80% of a team away right now on current performance.  If were gonna trade core pieces or core futures get a new GM with a different vision to do it. J.B has to fix this mess with what he has, Change the coach : sure - Trade a Pearson, Dickinson, Myers, OEL : Sure.  But, can't be trusted to dig the hole were in even deeper tho - If he is ,then Aqua needs to take a long hard look at his strategy of putting good money after bad.

 

 

A new GM will come in and blow it up. Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Horvat, Miller and Boeser will be Gone. 
 

 It happens to every team when they get a new gm because of failure of the team on the ice. The core is the first to go usually. 
 

So the question to those wanting a new GM is; are you ready to see everyone traded out?  
Personally I’d give this team a new coach and 40 games first. If they can’t compete, By the 30 game mark, i’d bring in a new GM and Trade off the main 6 at the trade deadline and next off season and restart a rebuild, so that we’re competitive in the next 5-10 seasons. 
 I really don’t think there’s any answer in between, if you want a new GM, you don’t believe in any of the team he’s built. 

 

[Bure_of_94]

1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

94% of "NORMAL" fans agree entirely with you as shown by a poll today with thousands "speaking up" on Donnie & Dhali show on CHEK TV.  Is it coincidence that the 6% percentage amount of people who still trust uncle Jim, happens to be the same 6% percentage of Anti-Vax, Area-51/Flat Earth Conspiracy theorist who will never admit their wrong-because their always right - crowd ?  Huh?

 

 

 

Donnie & Dhali

@DonnieandDhali

·

Poll question: Do you trust Jim Benning to make a major trade right now? Email: TheTeam @ Chekmedia dot ca Text: 604-200-9494

•  

  Yes

  6.5%
•  

  No

  93.5%

5,269 votes·Final results

 

 

 

Don’t you think a CKPG or CFJC poll would be more accurate? I mean the average chek viewer hasn’t played and doesn’t understand the more complex of  hockey concepts. They’re unaware of the 3 basic defensive plays that you’re taught in rep. Or the basic play that most power plays are based on, let alone it’s name. Chek tv is for very casual fans, I wouldn’t put too much stock into what they believe. You should look more into Sportsnet, TSN, ESPN, NBC sports... etc for more accurate, non-fair-weather fan polls.

[IBatch]

10 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

A new GM will come in and blow it up. Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Horvat, Miller and Boeser will be Gone. 
 

 It happens to every team when they get a new gm because of failure of the team on the ice. The core is the first to go usually. 
 

So the question to those wanting a new GM is; are you ready to see everyone traded out?  
Personally I’d give this team a new coach and 40 games first. If they can’t compete, By the 30 game mark, i’d bring in a new GM and Trade off the main 6 at the trade deadline and next off season and restart a rebuild, so that we’re competitive in the next 5-10 seasons. 
 I really don’t think there’s any answer in between, if you want a new GM, you don’t believe in any of the team he’s built. 

 

This might be a little far fetched, but if you want a new GM it's definitely possible they tear it all down and start again ala Shanny and Lou plan.    If that's the case then yes, most of the core will be shipped off for futures.