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Yes/No? (Discussion/Proposals)


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First off, we are just in a pickle, if we wait to compete, even 2 years, we are less someone off our 1st 2 lines, just to be able to re-sign others, in addition OEL is 2 years older, which makes us that much weaker, in 2 years.

 

So my next question is, who from our prospects is going to come up and fill those voids, or make us stronger. Sorry to say, but we are pretty empty on those types of prospects, and honestly we are just crossing our fingers for any of our current prospects to come in and make any significant difference. 

 

My conclusion on this problem, is we either spend assets we can not afford to loose (aka B-prospects or 1st round picks) or trade valuable players that would normally be part of the remedy.

 

In either way, we are pouched, screwed, and in a mess, if our goal is to be actually competing for the cup, as our current assembly of players fall short. Honestly can anyone see, this team, going any further than a 1st round, if we are that lucky? I think you really have to look at this situation, and be honest with our selves, if we want the answer.

 

Now, I am not advocating which way we should go in this thread, but merely suggesting we are in a mess.

 

If we are going to try and compete, we need to fix 2 glaring problems, #1 faceoffs and a #2 -type of RHD. I think finding a face off guy short term is pretty easy, as we could get Beagle back for face offs, for very little, and we could have his contract at 50% for not much more, as it would only be for the remainder of the season, after which, I am sure we could re-sign him cheap. Now, before you dump on that, think about his fitness level, which is pretty impressive, and his 60@ Face off percentage. Not to mention his leadership qualities. I am sure we could shelter his even strength minutes, to some extent.

 

Trade #1

 

Beagle @ 50%           for            Winnipeg's 3rd

 

Now, fixing the 2nd and most important problem comes with peril, but it does solve our RHD problem immediately. I have been torn about whether it is best to move Boeser, who is young, or Miller who is older and closer to UFA years. We would certainly miss our leading goal scorer, and his intensity, where as giving up Boeser is giving up RFA years, but we are far more able to replace Boeser, with Garland, Hoglander, and to a lesser extent Podkolzin, so I think it answers itself, in that way. I will say that, with Boeser being so youngish, we would be getting a youngish player back, but any trade to get a #2 RHD will cost more than Boeser. This is my take on something that might work.

 

Trade #2

 

Boeser, Poolman, Rathbone and a 2023-1st         for           Carlo and a 2022-1st

 

Now, first off, Carlo is not a #2, or at least a not a top 45 RHD, but he is exactly what we need for Hughes, he is 24 years old, so he will be around for a long time, and is on a great contract, of 4.1 million for the next 6 years. yes this is an over payment, but it allows the Canucks to do so many things, such as it clears cap, for the on coming players, it shows Pettersson, and Miller that we are trying to improve, and it makes us bigger.

 

Boston does this to start replacing their top Tier players, and gives them a chance on the Canucks 1st of acquiring Bedard (if they bet the Canucks will not be better) It should be noted that Boston's system helps players defensively and Poolman, although not Carlo will benefit from their system. Rathbone has been on everyone's radar for several years now, and I am sure Boston would see him as a great catch. The exchange of first's  does not harm Boston, and would be an upgrade on their own, and like I said earlier, if they are betting against the Canucks, they will see this as an opportunity to double their chances at Bedard.

 

If Boston sees Rathbone as a top 4 Dman in the future, this is a win for them. (I think they would).

 

Miller            Pettersson        Garland                                 OEL          Hamonic                              Demko

Pearson          Horvat            Hoglander                             Hughes     Carlo                                   Halak

Motte            Dickenson        Podkolzin                              Schenn      Myers

Lammikko       Beagle           Sutter                                            Burroughs

            Chaisson       Highmore

 

PS.......................I still think we are looking for a 3rd line Center, but we are far more competitive.

 

Edited by J.I.A.H.N
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Carlo would be great but realistically 

 

Myers 

Poolman

Hamonic

vs

Myers

Carlo

Hamonic

 

I don't think we are pushing the needle enough to justify the price. 

 

I think a bigger area of need would be 3C which you identified in your post. 

how about Boeser to STL for Barbashev + Klim Kostin + Pick 2nd/3rd??

 

Them getting Boeser would allow them the flexability to move Tarasenko. 

 

Canucks

Klim Barbashev Podkolzin would be one hell of a checking line.   

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I think that we should stay the course with our current batch of players and not make any significant trades until we can see what we can get out of them.  We may have had a terrible start but it's a long season and we can still get better with our current roster.  At the start of the season, many of us fans, myself included, thought that we had a good line-up going into the season and that Benning had made many good off season moves.  Despite our poor start to the season, I still think that this is mostly true.  We don't really know what we have yet. 

 

I think that the biggest problem with the team is lack of chemistry.  With all the new players everyone has to get to know each other and the whole team has to figure out their roles.  Petterson and Hughes missing training camp also hurt this team even if it is a "normal" negotiating tactic.  Green may or may not have to go.  I'm not sure how much of it is on him but Petterson and the whole team behind him seem a little out of sorts (Demko excluded, he's been awesome).  Our playoff hopes are fading for this year but even that is still not off the table.  I still think that this group of players can win, but they have to turn it up a notch somehow.  They have to grind it out one game at a time and not look to any excuses. 

 

Go Canucks Go!

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  • J.I.A.H.N changed the title to Yes/No? (Discussion/Proposals)

I'd be open to just signing Beagle FOR CHEAP instead of trading for him (if we're even close to the playoffs we should not be loading up, since we don't really have a good team this season IMO).  The other trade looks close but frankly I don't know who says no.  I'd be okay to not trade Boeser esp. for Carlo, agreed that it might not move the needle enough.

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7 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

First off, we are just in a pickle, if we wait to compete, even 2 years, we are less someone off our 1st 2 lines, just to be able to re-sign others, in addition OEL is 2 years older, which makes us that much weaker, in 2 years.

 

So my next question is, who from our prospects is going to come up and fill those voids, or make us stronger. Sorry to say, but we are pretty empty on those types of prospects, and honestly we are just crossing our fingers for any of our current prospects to come in and make any significant difference. 

 

My conclusion on this problem, is we either spend assets we can not afford to loose (aka B-prospects or 1st round picks) or trade valuable players that would normally be part of the remedy.

 

In either way, we are pouched, screwed, and in a mess, if our goal is to be actually competing for the cup, as our current assembly of players fall short. Honestly can anyone see, this team, going any further than a 1st round, if we are that lucky? I think you really have to look at this situation, and be honest with our selves, if we want the answer.

 

Now, I am not advocating which way we should go in this thread, but merely suggesting we are in a mess.

 

If we are going to try and compete, we need to fix 2 glaring problems, #1 faceoffs and a #2 -type of RHD. I think finding a face off guy short term is pretty easy, as we could get Beagle back for face offs, for very little, and we could have his contract at 50% for not much more, as it would only be for the remainder of the season, after which, I am sure we could re-sign him cheap. Now, before you dump on that, think about his fitness level, which is pretty impressive, and his 60@ Face off percentage. Not to mention his leadership qualities. I am sure we could shelter his even strength minutes, to some extent.

 

Trade #1

 

Beagle @ 50%           for            Winnipeg's 3rd

 

Now, fixing the 2nd and most important problem comes with peril, but it does solve our RHD problem immediately. I have been torn about whether it is best to move Boeser, who is young, or Miller who is older and closer to UFA years. We would certainly miss our leading goal scorer, and his intensity, where as giving up Boeser is giving up RFA years, but we are far more able to replace Boeser, with Garland, Hoglander, and to a lesser extent Podkolzin, so I think it answers itself, in that way. I will say that, with Boeser being so youngish, we would be getting a youngish player back, but any trade to get a #2 RHD will cost more than Boeser. This is my take on something that might work.

 

Trade #2

 

Boeser, Poolman, Rathbone and a 2023-1st         for           Carlo and a 2022-1st

 

Now, first off, Carlo is not a #2, or at least a not a top 45 RHD, but he is exactly what we need for Hughes, he is 24 years old, so he will be around for a long time, and is on a great contract, of 4.1 million for the next 6 years. yes this is an over payment, but it allows the Canucks to do so many things, such as it clears cap, for the on coming players, it shows Pettersson, and Miller that we are trying to improve, and it makes us bigger.

 

Boston does this to start replacing their top Tier players, and gives them a chance on the Canucks 1st of acquiring Bedard (if they bet the Canucks will not be better) It should be noted that Boston's system helps players defensively and Poolman, although not Carlo will benefit from their system. Rathbone has been on everyone's radar for several years now, and I am sure Boston would see him as a great catch. The exchange of first's  does not harm Boston, and would be an upgrade on their own, and like I said earlier, if they are betting against the Canucks, they will see this as an opportunity to double their chances at Bedard.

 

If Boston sees Rathbone as a top 4 Dman in the future, this is a win for them. (I think they would).

 

Miller            Pettersson        Garland                                 OEL          Hamonic                              Demko

Pearson          Horvat            Hoglander                             Hughes     Carlo                                   Halak

Motte            Dickenson        Podkolzin                              Schenn      Myers

Lammikko       Beagle           Sutter                                            Burroughs

            Chaisson       Highmore

 

PS.......................I still think we are looking for a 3rd line Center, but we are far more competitive.

 

the only real problem I have with all this Jan, is that you are premised on Jim's faulty theory that this team can be competitive

it is not competitive so the rest of you post is moot

not Motte

MOOT

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@lmm

 

I totally agree but imo this makes us competitive....not top 10, but a more legit 14,15, 16, 17, 18

 

imo, we should have continued our rebuild, pre...Beagle, Roussel, Erickson, Miller, Garland and Myers

 

i think that the 2 1sts this year, starts us back...........but truthfully, its a bloody mess

 

 

Edited by J.I.A.H.N
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If the Canucks were playoff bound this year, I would have suggested taking a look at Connor Murphy (we would give them Rathbone + another prospect), but I think we have to be realistic now unfortunately.  The Canucks probably won’t make the playoffs this year and they probably should be looking to sell rather than buy.

 

This needed to be Benning’s version of the 2008-2009 Canucks season and it’s now looking to be his version of the dreaded 1997-1998 season.  I hate to say this but we should probably trade all three of Miller, Horvat, and Boeser at the deadline while relieving both Green and Benning of their duties after our 82nd game (I throw Boeser in this category as well because his QO will be 7.5 million, and he’s not even worth half of that right now unfortunately).

Edited by Patel Bure
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10 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@lmm

 

I totally agree but imo this makes us competitive....not top 10, but a more legit 14,15, 16, 17, 18

 

imo, we should have continued our rebuild, pre...Beagle, Roussel, Erickson, Miller, Garland and Myers

 

i think that the 2 1sts this year, starts us back...........but truthfully, its a bloody mess

 

 

I actually don’t mind the moves that the Canucks made in the 2018 and 2019 off seasons since a large part of a young players development is in gaining valuable playoff experience.  Beagle, Roussel, and Player Name, for all of their warts, provided the Canucks with some pretty good defensive play.  Beagle gave us an edge on the PK while

Pearson-Horvat-Player Name was a very good shut down line.  Miller also played a large role in our 2020 bubble post season.  
 

Benning made all the right moves in my opinion........although I still think that he could have found a way to keep Toffoli.

 

Given all of these transitional contracts, I think most people assumed that our 2020-2021 season would be Benning’s version of 2007-2008, but this current season is just so disappointing.  
 

I know guys like Thomas Drance, The Athletic, JD Burke, Sportsnet 650, and HF Canucks are using our current struggles as an opportunity to say, “I told you so,” but even those guys were wrong:

 

-They predicted that OEL, and a potential OEL-Myers pairing would be a train wreck.

-They predicted that we’d get caved in 5 on 5.

-They predicted that our PP would be one of our only reasons for keeping games close
-They predicted that all three of Pettersson, Boeser, and Dickinson would be the least of our problems.  
 

The only thing “they” got right was our PK (although they didn’t predict that it would be this bad).

 

Our timeline for rebuilding this team was right on par with most other successful rebuilds and this season was supposed to be our coming out party.........and it’s been anything but.  Benning put his chips on Pettersson and Boeser and it blew up badly in his face.  Silly him?

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1 hour ago, Patel Bure said:

I actually don’t mind the moves that the Canucks made in the 2018 and 2019 off seasons since a large part of a young players development is in gaining valuable playoff experience.  Beagle, Roussel, and Player Name, for all of their warts, provided the Canucks with some pretty good defensive play.  Beagle gave us an edge on the PK while

Pearson-Horvat-Player Name was a very good shut down line.  Miller also played a large role in our 2020 bubble post season.  
 

Benning made all the right moves in my opinion........although I still think that he could have found a way to keep Toffoli.

 

Given all of these transitional contracts, I think most people assumed that our 2020-2021 season would be Benning’s version of 2007-2008, but this current season is just so disappointing.  
 

I know guys like Thomas Drance, The Athletic, JD Burke, Sportsnet 650, and HF Canucks are using our current struggles as an opportunity to say, “I told you so,” but even those guys were wrong:

 

-They predicted that OEL, and a potential OEL-Myers pairing would be a train wreck.

-They predicted that we’d get caved in 5 on 5.

-They predicted that our PP would be one of our only reasons for keeping games close
-They predicted that all three of Pettersson, Boeser, and Dickinson would be the least of our problems.  
 

The only thing “they” got right was our PK (although they didn’t predict that it would be this bad).

 

Our timeline for rebuilding this team was right on par with most other successful rebuilds and this season was supposed to be our coming out party.........and it’s been anything but.  Benning put his chips on Pettersson and Boeser and it blew up badly in his face.  Silly him?

Ironic that Loui Bo  and Tanner P were our shut down line, albeit on a poor team, but Bo and Pearson do not kill penalties and are not strong defensively without Loui.

For all Bo's developement, he is a very one dimensional player.

why does Pearson not kill penalties?

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