(discussion) Looks like another lost year. What good can we take out of this year?

[KirkSave]

A few positives:

 

Poolman is a solid defender and would be a perfect 3rd pairing guy if we had more depth at D.

 

Luongo's cap recapture will be off the books for 2022-2023.

 

Our F group is stacked with talent, along with up and comers in Hogz and Podz.

 

No surprise, we need a top end R hand d-man that can play in all situations and those are very hard to come by unless drafed and developed. Brett Pesce would be ideal. Not sure what it would take to get him here but if we look to move a big piece out, he would be a player I would target.

 

*I don't think this season is lost quite yet. I am an optimist...even when it comes to the Nucks!

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

So, yeah. 

 

We needed change, didn't get enough of it and here we are again. Its disappointing, but I see a lot of things to look forward to going forward,

 

Coming out of this, whats the best approach? a mini-rebuild? how much do we have to build on?

 

I see a lot, but what do you think?

 

And please, don't turn this into another Green/Benning  complaint thread, we have lots of that. What good pieces do you see moving forward?

1) Move all three of Miller, Horvat, and Brock for 1sts and elite prospects.

 

2) Fire both Benning and Green at the end of the season.
 

Miller to the Rangers for Schneider++ would go a long way in solidifying our defense.  Hughes and Schneider could be our Keith-Seabrook moving forward.  
 

I think Horvat would also land us both a 1st and an elite prospect as there are some playoff bound team that could use a good 2nd line center.

 

Lastly, my hope is that we can move Boeser as well for a 1st or a good prospect as I don’t think qualifying Boeser at 7.5 million would be a good investment on our part.

 

I know Horvat, Boeser, and Miller are good guys to hang onto, but we also have to be realistic and ask ourselves if we can be competitive next season as well.  Miller is in his prime, while Bo and Brock have been good soldiers for us (outside of this season) and deserve to go to an environment where they can experience playoff hockey.  I can’t see either of Miller or Horvat signing with us when their deals end.
 

Right now, both Miller and Horvat will be able to fetch us great value because they have a bit of term and a good cap hit.  
 

Last but not least, I’d fire both Green and Benning at the end of the year.  Firing Green right now might prevent us from hiring a good coach since most potential new coaches will wonder if/when Benning will get fired and won’t feel good about their own job security.  Fire both Green and Benning at the end of the season and truly start over.   

[4petesake]

Another big plus to come out of this year is getting the farm team settled in Abbotsford. They’ve got a foundation for success started with good local fan support and a good solid supporting cast that likes to play in this area. Now we need to add a few more prospects to the pool that can eventually move up to the big team. Off the top of my head we have Silovs, DiPietro, Rathbone, Klimovich and Woo that all have a chance to play in the NHL at some point.

[Patel Bure]

7 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

A few positives:

 

Poolman is a solid defender and would be a perfect 3rd pairing guy if we had more depth at D.

 

Luongo's cap recapture will be off the books for 2022-2023.

 

Our F group is stacked with talent, along with up and comers in Hogz and Podz.

 

No surprise, we need a top end R hand d-man that can play in all situations and those are very hard to come by unless drafed and developed. Brett Pesce would be ideal. Not sure what it would take to get him here but if we look to move a big piece out, he would be a player I would target.

 

*I don't think this season is lost quite yet. I am an optimist...even when it comes to the Nucks!

Completely agreed about Poolman.  He’s the exact type of guy that you’d want on a 3rd pairing.  Some people were upset by his signing but I actually liked the signing a lot (again, under the impression that he’d be a 3rd pairing guy for us).

[King Heffy]

16 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

1) Move all three of Miller, Horvat, and Brock for 1sts and elite prospects.

 

2) Fire both Benning and Green at the end of the season.
 

Miller to the Rangers for Schneider++ would go a long way in solidifying our defense.  Hughes and Schneider could be our Keith-Seabrook moving forward.  
 

I think Horvat would also land us both a 1st and an elite prospect as there are some playoff bound team that could use a good 2nd line center.

 

Lastly, my hope is that we can move Boeser as well for a 1st or a good prospect as I don’t think qualifying Boeser at 7.5 million would be a good investment on our part.

 

I know Horvat, Boeser, and Miller are good guys to hang onto, but we also have to be realistic and ask ourselves if we can be competitive next season as well.  Miller is in his prime, while Bo and Brock have been good soldiers for us (outside of this season) and deserve to go to an environment where they can experience playoff hockey.  I can’t see either of Miller or Horvat signing with us when their deals end.
 

Right now, both Miller and Horvat will be able to fetch us great value because they have a bit of term and a good cap hit.  
 

Last but not least, I’d fire both Green and Benning at the end of the year.  Firing Green right now might prevent us from hiring a good coach since most potential new coaches will wonder if/when Benning will get fired and won’t feel good about their own job security.  Fire both Green and Benning at the end of the season and truly start over.   

Why not let Shaw be the interim coach instead them?  The subtraction of Green, Baumgartner, and King from the room could help recover some value for our assets before the deadline.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

25 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

A few positives:

 

Poolman is a solid defender and would be a perfect 3rd pairing guy if we had more depth at D.

 

Luongo's cap recapture will be off the books for 2022-2023.

 

Our F group is stacked with talent, along with up and comers in Hogz and Podz.

 

No surprise, we need a top end R hand d-man that can play in all situations and those are very hard to come by unless drafed and developed. Brett Pesce would be ideal. Not sure what it would take to get him here but if we look to move a big piece out, he would be a player I would target.

 

*I don't think this season is lost quite yet. I am an optimist...even when it comes to the Nucks!

Only problem is we only save a small about because the big hit on Virtanen and Holtby  

is $2.4 million. So the team only saves a bit over $600,000 next season. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Ghostsof1915

[Beefcake]

Something has to give, but it's usually not good to make decisions in a stressful situation.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Beefcake
typo

[Odd.]

Petey and Boeser not taking that next step is hurting us. They’ve regressed, especially Petey. He’s an open book. 
 

I do think Boeser has good trade value that we can definitely capitalize. Our greatest need right now is a RHD, and a right handed centre man with size and scoring ability. We also need draft picks.

 

I do think this core can still be effective. However, one of Petey and Boeser IMO have to go to address our other greatest needs. And quite frankly, I don’t think it would be the smartest decision to keep Boeser past his contract. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Odd.

[Fanuck]

10 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Why not let Shaw be the interim coach instead them? 

If ownership/management went that direction - and I'm not saying I support or don't support that idea - Shaw would be the guy I'd be looking at to take the head-coaching job.  I always thought that when JB brought him over here, he was, in a way, covering himself in case he needed to enact his 'PlanB' mid-season. 

[JM_]

48 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

1) Move all three of Miller, Horvat, and Brock for 1sts and elite prospects.

 

2) Fire both Benning and Green at the end of the season.
 

Miller to the Rangers for Schneider++ would go a long way in solidifying our defense.  Hughes and Schneider could be our Keith-Seabrook moving forward.  
 

I think Horvat would also land us both a 1st and an elite prospect as there are some playoff bound team that could use a good 2nd line center.

 

Lastly, my hope is that we can move Boeser as well for a 1st or a good prospect as I don’t think qualifying Boeser at 7.5 million would be a good investment on our part.

 

I know Horvat, Boeser, and Miller are good guys to hang onto, but we also have to be realistic and ask ourselves if we can be competitive next season as well.  Miller is in his prime, while Bo and Brock have been good soldiers for us (outside of this season) and deserve to go to an environment where they can experience playoff hockey.  I can’t see either of Miller or Horvat signing with us when their deals end.
 

Right now, both Miller and Horvat will be able to fetch us great value because they have a bit of term and a good cap hit.  
 

Last but not least, I’d fire both Green and Benning at the end of the year.  Firing Green right now might prevent us from hiring a good coach since most potential new coaches will wonder if/when Benning will get fired and won’t feel good about their own job security.  Fire both Green and Benning at the end of the season and truly start over.   

OK so tear down. Do you think people are ready for that?

[JM_]

23 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Petey and Boeser not taking that next step is hurting us. They’ve regressed, especially Petey. He’s an open book. 
 

I do think Boeser has good trade value that we can definitely capitalize. Our greatest need right now is a RHD, and a right handed centre man with size and scoring ability. We also need draft picks.

 

I do think this core can still be effective. However, one of Petey and Boeser IMO have to go to address our other greatest needs. And quite frankly, I don’t think it would be the smartest decision to keep Boeser past his contract. 

any ideas on available R C's or RHD?

[JM_]

Looking at the posts so far, there's a hell of a lot for a new GM to work with here. Big + out of that is we should be able to attract some solid candidates. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

A good chess player sees/plays things sequentially, with precision. Get my butt kicked(hard) vs such players, but really feel this is what we need in these coming months. So taking a stab...

 

step 1: Fire Green/Bumgardener & promote Shaw

 

2: Trade Boeser for a pkg deal. Try to get the best pick(poss), a LHd(stay-at-home) & prospect

 

3: Dangle Millsy & Horvat to a few teams. Try to drive up a lofty price. By this point, 6-8 wks should have elapsed. If our fortunes turn around, you don't have to move. If they don't, deal 1 or both of these guys. A young, top Rhd should be one part that's coming back(Schneider, Dobson ilk).

 

4: If PO's missed, prob keep JB for this last draft(an area he always shows talent). Then replace him in summer. Keep twins in line to keep learning the trade, & their future transition to key appointment.

[Nucker 67]

It's difficult to be optimistic, because I (we) have waited years for this team to compete again, and they finally made a lot of moves to improve and this off season their mantra has been: "Playoffs".  The Canucks really dug themselves a deep hole they might not be able to climb out of this season. This was supposed to be the year. So, now we wait some more. I used to be a fan of Benning, but him and that coaching staff need to change before this team improves for real.

 

Build around:

 

Podkolzin - Pettersson - Boeser

Hoglander - Horvat - Garland

Klimovich

Lockwood

 

OEL

Hughes

Burroughs

Woo

 

Demko

 

 

Tradeable Assets:  Miller, Pearson, Dickinson, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman, Rathbone

 

[Patel Bure]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

OK so tear down. Do you think people are ready for that?

I think so.  To be honest, I’m actually still a fan of Benning and support everything he did (how is it his fault that Boeser and Pettersson are complete poo this year?) but at the end of the day, the owners have to be accountable to the fans, and so if the #FireBenning movement continues to pick up steam, Aqua has no choice.

 

As far as Boeser goes, maybe we should hang onto him since he’s still youngish and will be an RFA.  He still has plenty of time to live up to the 7.5 million but it would be risky given how he’s performed this year.

 

Horvat and Miller however, should definitely be moved.  It helps us clear cap space and also helps us recoup the 1sts and prospects (Madden) that we traded away.

[Patel Bure]

48 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Why not let Shaw be the interim coach instead them?  The subtraction of Green, Baumgartner, and King from the room could help recover some value for our assets before the deadline.

 

I don’t mind Shaw being interim coach provided that he knows that he’s only an interim coach.  The Canucks need a proven winner behind the bench at some point.  Claude Julien or Bruce Budreau.   Look at what Quennville, Sutter, and Trotz did for their new teams?  Could any of us have predicted this play from Calgary this year given the “poo theatrics” we saw from them last year?  
 

We need a top alpha coach with a proven record.  Guys like Corey Hirsch need to shot out of a cannon into the Pacific Ocean.

[Coconuts]

I don't know about a rebuild, but we should absolutely embrace the fact that the playoffs are out of reach and that we're probably picking top 6-7 again. 

 

The positives are that Hoglander, Garland, and Podkolzin don't appear to take nights off. Garland and Hoglander are top 6 guys and I wouldn't be surprised to see Podkolzin take steps towards that going forward. OEL looks better than many expected him to be, despite our record, and Hughes has actually looked better this season. Demko's game is as strong as ever. Klimovich looks like a legit prospect.

 

Obviously there's a lot to be concerned about, Boeser and Pettersson haven't been what we've needed them to be. Our PK is an embarrassment, our depth scoring has been abysmal, we look lost out there a lot of nights. 

 

I'd move Miller this season as he's our best trade piece and his value will probably never be higher as a Canuck, we'd do well to go into the draft with multiple top picks, or to move a top pick to help the current roster. I'd look to move forward with a top 6 of Garland, Pettersson, Boeser, Hoglander, and Horvat and I'd be looking to beef up our 3c position as well as our defense. 

 

We don't have much in the system in the way of blue chip prospects anymore, and we don't have guys chomping at the bit to make the bigs as support players. Rathbone and Woo are the two defensemen of note. Needless to say, maybe shipping a couple guys out to bolster the team and prospect pool might be the way to go. 

 

Aqua needs to bring a president to come in and clean house, JB's had plenty of time and Green needs to go. This season is a write off, we should be looking to the future now. They need to figure out who our core guys are and who's moveable. Who wants to stay, who wants out. We aren't a team that can afford to lose players for nothing going forward. 

[nergish]

Horvat is playing like a bum right now, and is notoriously streaky.... in the regular season.

 

This guy was born for the playoffs. Coming from London that was what caught Gillis' eye.
Look at how he carried this team on his back at times in the bubble.

 

Bo is somebody we need to keep, he just needs to find more consistency during an 82-game schedule.

Edited November 22, 2021 by nergish

[buddhahoodlum]

If the Canucks aren't planning on making a coaching change and let Green run out his contract then we have to assume the playoffs will be out of reach next year too. So they need to figure out who isn't in their long term plans (ie Miller) and trade them for picks, assuming we can get a good return. If we can stockpile a few extra low first rounders in the next 2 drafts maybe we can "retool on the fly" and be competitive sooner rather then later.  

[PuckYa]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yup.  He's a good young prospect.  Still just 18.

I was wondering about playing Pods at center?  Big, strong, skilled, smart, and very competitive.  Maybe he's the third line, checking center in our future?  Free up trading Miller?

You also suggested he take face offs. I believe he's 3-0 in that category already.