(discussion) Looks like another lost year. What good can we take out of this year?

[JM_]

22 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't know about a rebuild, but we should absolutely embrace the fact that the playoffs are out of reach and that we're probably picking top 6-7 again. 

 

The positives are that Hoglander, Garland, and Podkolzin don't appear to take nights off. Garland and Hoglander are top 6 guys and I wouldn't be surprised to see Podkolzin take steps towards that going forward. OEL looks better than many expected him to be, despite our record, and Hughes has actually looked better this season. Demko's game is as strong as ever. Klimovich looks like a legit prospect.

 

Obviously there's a lot to be concerned about, Boeser and Pettersson haven't been what we've needed them to be. Our PK is an embarrassment, our depth scoring has been abysmal, we look lost out there a lot of nights. 

 

I'd move Miller this season as he's our best trade piece and his value will probably never be higher as a Canuck, we'd do well to go into the draft with multiple top picks, or to move a top pick to help the current roster. I'd look to move forward with a top 6 of Garland, Pettersson, Boeser, Hoglander, and Horvat and I'd be looking to beef up our 3c position as well as our defense. 

 

We don't have much in the system in the way of blue chip prospects anymore, and we don't have guys chomping at the bit to make the bigs as support players. Rathbone and Woo are the two defensemen of note. Needless to say, maybe shipping a couple guys out to bolster the team and prospect pool might be the way to go. 

 

Aqua needs to bring a president to come in and clean house, JB's had plenty of time and Green needs to go. This season is a write off, we should be looking to the future now. They need to figure out who our core guys are and who's moveable. Who wants to stay, who wants out. We aren't a team that can afford to lose players for nothing going forward. 

I guess looking at it from a value for player pov, you can't really do much better than Miller for a trade piece. Great cap hit, ppg, all heart, multiple roles, pretty much what a playoff team would want. 

 

I don't mind him being shopped, I do mind him sold off for cheap just for change sake tho, as he's not the problem. 

 

If we got back a young RHD with top pair potential I'd be pretty happy from a core pov.... who has that?

 

 

 

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It's difficult to be optimistic,

yeah, it is. But I just can't help thinking there's a crap ton for a new GM/coach to work with here. 

 

39 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

because I (we) have waited years for this team to compete again, and they finally made a lot of moves to improve and this off season their mantra has been: "Playoffs".  The Canucks really dug themselves a deep hole they might not be able to climb out of this season. This was supposed to be the year. So, now we wait some more. I used to be a fan of Benning, but him and that coaching staff need to change before this team improves for real.

 

Build around:

 

Podkolzin - Pettersson - Boeser

Hoglander - Horvat - Garland

Klimovich

Lockwood

 

OEL

Hughes

Burroughs

Woo

 

Demko

 

 

Tradeable Assets:  Miller, Pearson, Dickinson, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman, Rathbone

 

I might want to hang on to Poolman, good cap hit and he looks pretty reliable most of the time. 

[nergish]

I know Jimbo has kicked tires on moving up at the draft in the past.

If we trade Miller (and whatever else) at the deadline for a 1st, and end up around 5th OA with ours - could we put together a package to move up and grab Shane Wright?

He's not off to the start fans were hoping for in the OHL, but he is a gifted player and a genuine right shot centre with a commitment to defense. 

This kid could be an ELC third line centre next season.

Edited November 22, 2021 by nergish

[Vinny in Vancouver]

Shane Wright would be the best thing to come out of this year.

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

So, yeah. 

 

We needed change, didn't get enough of it and here we are again. Its disappointing, but I see a lot of things to look forward to going forward,

 

Coming out of this, whats the best approach? a mini-rebuild? how much do we have to build on?

 

I see a lot, but what do you think?

 

And please, don't turn this into another Green/Benning  complaint thread, we have lots of that. What good pieces do you see moving forward?

What I look at right now:

 

Podkolzin is awesome, I think he's going to be a dominating player in another 2 years. Just needs to gain more experience and round himself out physically, but he is a solid player

Klimovich is an incredible steal in the 2nd round. The fact that at 18, a 2nd round pick is playing in the AHL and not looking out of place is a really good sign for the future

Hoglander is the real thing and with another couple of years of gaining weight and strength, he's going to give opposition defense, everything that they can handle.

Garland was a really solid pickup and, I'm really happy that we signed him a cap friendly rate for a full 5 years.

Horvat, Pettersson and Boeser are struggling, but are a solid forward core to build around. They will bounce back.

Miller, I think we keep another couple of years and then move him at the deadline to make room for other, upcoming talent like Klimovich.

Hughes and OEL are solid players to build our defensive core around and Myers is really better than most people give him credit for.

Demko is bordering on elite and with a little better defensive coverage, I think he will be in the discussion for top 5 goalie in the league for at least the next 5 years.

Both Silovs and DiPietro are showing that they really have NHL potential, and DiPietro should be taking over backup position starting next year, possibly later this season if we don't turn things around.

We have solid defensive prospects in Rathbone and Woo, both of whom, should be ready to start stepping in as early as January for Rathbone, I think Woo, they want to see him practicing his physical game in Abbotsford for this season and hopefully ready for next season.

 

What I see that we need is, clearly, our defense is still very much a work in progress. We badly need to strengthen down the right side. We're not bad when Hamonic is in the lineup, but if we lose one or two guys on the right side for any extended period, we are going down as fast as the Titanic.

 

Would I consider trying to leverage someone like Boeser in trade for a solid top 4, RD? Depending on the deal, I would probably entertain that discussion if I was management, just because we have enough depth at Right Wing that I think we could balance from internal depth. We have Garland, Podkolzin and Hoglander, all who can play to 9 minutes on Right Wing, and Klimovich coming available in another year or two. Lockwood I think is pretty close as well to being able to handle bottom 6 right wing for us. To me, (not that I'm in a hurry to move him), it makes Boeser expendable in addressing our most pressing need, and I wouldn't want to see us move another 1st round pick, unless it involved Shea Theodore from Vegas or Erik Cernak from Tampa, (but I would want more back than just Cernak). I would also consider doing a trade with New Jersey for Suban (not for Boeser unless a lot more was coming back) if we could find a way to fit him into our cap, and only if he could be resigned for a reasonable rate for another 2 or 3 years.

 

I don't think this team is as bad as people seem to think, I think we are a couple of moves away from the balance we need to be a playoff team every season with the capability of going 2 or 3 rounds in.

 

 

 

[Heretic]

The doom and gloom on CDC really sucks.

 

We are maybe 1 or 2 pieces away from being a very competitive team.

 

Looking forward to next year.

 

 

[Coconuts]

32 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I guess looking at it from a value for player pov, you can't really do much better than Miller for a trade piece. Great cap hit, ppg, all heart, multiple roles, pretty much what a playoff team would want. 

 

I don't mind him being shopped, I do mind him sold off for cheap just for change sake tho, as he's not the problem. 

 

If we got back a young RHD with top pair potential I'd be pretty happy from a core pov.... who has that?

 

 

 

He's about the only forward we'd likely get full value for right now. Boeser hasn't looked like himself, and I'd rather not move him, and it's too early to give up on Pettersson. Miller's exactly what a playoff squad would be looking for. 

 

Nah, you don't move him to spark the rest, you move him for legitimate assets. I'm not sure, I'm no expert on other team's players, but I could see the Rangers having interest. 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Heretic said:

The doom and gloom on CDC really sucks.

 

We are maybe 1 or 2 pieces away from being a very competitive team.

 

Looking forward to next year.

 

 

I think you missed the point of the thread  

 

People are brining up a lot of good things about the team. 

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

What I look at right now:

 

Podkolzin is awesome, I think he's going to be a dominating player in another 2 years. Just needs to gain more experience and round himself out physically, but he is a solid player

Klimovich is an incredible steal in the 2nd round. The fact that at 18, a 2nd round pick is playing in the AHL and not looking out of place is a really good sign for the future

Hoglander is the real thing and with another couple of years of gaining weight and strength, he's going to give opposition defense, everything that they can handle.

Garland was a really solid pickup and, I'm really happy that we signed him a cap friendly rate for a full 5 years.

Horvat, Pettersson and Boeser are struggling, but are a solid forward core to build around. They will bounce back.

Miller, I think we keep another couple of years and then move him at the deadline to make room for other, upcoming talent like Klimovich.

Hughes and OEL are solid players to build our defensive core around and Myers is really better than most people give him credit for.

Demko is bordering on elite and with a little better defensive coverage, I think he will be in the discussion for top 5 goalie in the league for at least the next 5 years.

Both Silovs and DiPietro are showing that they really have NHL potential, and DiPietro should be taking over backup position starting next year, possibly later this season if we don't turn things around.

We have solid defensive prospects in Rathbone and Woo, both of whom, should be ready to start stepping in as early as January for Rathbone, I think Woo, they want to see him practicing his physical game in Abbotsford for this season and hopefully ready for next season.

 

What I see that we need is, clearly, our defense is still very much a work in progress. We badly need to strengthen down the right side. We're not bad when Hamonic is in the lineup, but if we lose one or two guys on the right side for any extended period, we are going down as fast as the Titanic.

 

Would I consider trying to leverage someone like Boeser in trade for a solid top 4, RD? Depending on the deal, I would probably entertain that discussion if I was management, just because we have enough depth at Right Wing that I think we could balance from internal depth. We have Garland, Podkolzin and Hoglander, all who can play to 9 minutes on Right Wing, and Klimovich coming available in another year or two. Lockwood I think is pretty close as well to being able to handle bottom 6 right wing for us. To me, (not that I'm in a hurry to move him), it makes Boeser expendable in addressing our most pressing need, and I wouldn't want to see us move another 1st round pick, unless it involved Shea Theodore from Vegas or Erik Cernak from Tampa, (but I would want more back than just Cernak). I would also consider doing a trade with New Jersey for Suban (not for Boeser unless a lot more was coming back) if we could find a way to fit him into our cap, and only if he could be resigned for a reasonable rate for another 2 or 3 years.

 

I don't think this team is as bad as people seem to think, I think we are a couple of moves away from the balance we need to be a playoff team every season with the capability of going 2 or 3 rounds in.

 

 

 

great summary. I do wonder if some kind of trade on the winger for defence is in the works as well, it does make a ton of sense. 

 

I kind of forgot about our backup goalies in waiting, thats a nice thing to have and I like that Mikey has some pressure on him from Silvos. 

[Heretic]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I think you missed the point of the thread  

 

People are brining up a lot of good things about the team. 

Being only 1 or 2 pieces away from being a very competitive teams is a good thing.  

[JM_]

Just now, Heretic said:

Being only 1 or 2 pieces away from being a very competitive teams is a good thing.  

thats true.

 

How do you think we can get those pieces?

 

[Heretic]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats true.

 

How do you think we can get those pieces?

 

Draft? Trade? 

[Junkyard Dog]

35 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Being only 1 or 2 pieces away from being a very competitive teams is a good thing.  

Not sure we're just that. A good 3rd C and a couple solid RD for starters. Bottom 6 needs revamping. Also players need to perform.

 

Also the fact that the cap makeup of this team currently doesn't allow us to add those types of pieces without giving up other pieces which in turn creates more holes.

 

We also stand to lose players as time goes on with youngsters needing raises going forward. Key guys like Miller.

[48MPHSlapShot]

The best thing that could possibly come out of this season would be Aquilini seeing the absolute failure of the "rebuilding on the fly" strategy and bringing in in a new president and a new GM, giving them total autonomy and allowing them to strip this team down to it's nuts and bolts and rebuild it the right way.

 

Also, for the love of God hire a new coaching staff.

[philtbc829]

Garland, Hogs, Podz....so much love for those three....I still want to see a line with Motter centering Hogs and Podz....

[lmm]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

no thats OK, who do you see out there as the best fits?

 

I've liked Ralph Krueger as a team builder in a president role (not as a coach so much). Gorton as a GM. 

 

Coaching I'm not sure about. 

I kind of think Rutherford at the top

maybe Gorton or the Colorado guy at GM

and Boudreau as coach

 

I am not a fan of the Rookies Aqua has gone with,

But I think you can see that with an experienced guy at the top (Rutherford / McPhee) you can run with a less experienced guy in the middle

and this team needs an experienced coach

Much like the Age Gap thing Jim talked about when he arrived, I think you need to fill the age gap in management, so you don't want 2 rookies running the show, nor do you want your 3 positions (prez/gm/coach) aging out at the same time

 

I am not sold on Gorton after last year, but that is not to say he wouldn't do a good job if he learned from that situation.

Colorado is kind of the same as the rangers were, except they are small on D not F

I have had enough of Benning drafting little people, so one of your top 2 (Prez/GM) needs to want a big physical team, maybe we need Torts as Prez? wink

 

I have always liked Kreuger's resume, but he might be to cerebral for the hockey world

he doesn't seem to ever connect  with his team

 

so, in short experienced thug who likes skill

Smart guy who can draft and swing trades

experienced motivator not living too far in left (or right) field

[JM_]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

I kind of think Rutherford at the top

maybe Gorton or the Colorado guy at GM

and Boudreau as coach

 

I am not a fan of the Rookies Aqua has gone with,

But I think you can see that with an experienced guy at the top (Rutherford / McPhee) you can run with a less experienced guy in the middle

and this team needs an experienced coach

Much like the Age Gap thing Jim talked about when he arrived, I think you need to fill the age gap in management, so you don't want 2 rookies running the show, nor do you want your 3 positions (prez/gm/coach) aging out at the same time

 

I am not sold on Gorton after last year, but that is not to say he wouldn't do a good job if he learned from that situation.

Colorado is kind of the same as the rangers were, except they are small on D not F

I have had enough of Benning drafting little people, so one of your top 2 (Prez/GM) needs to want a big physical team, maybe we need Torts as Prez? wink

 

I have always liked Kreuger's resume, but he might be to cerebral for the hockey world

he doesn't seem to ever connect  with his team

 

so, in short experienced thug who likes skill

Smart guy who can draft and swing trades

experienced motivator not living too far in left (or right) field

I like what Ralph did in Europe, and like him as a more vision-setter than say a more meat and potatoes PHO like Burkie, e.g.

 

Lots of ways to solve this tho, there are good people out there. As long as Jim doesn't torch the youth and picks on the way out I think we can attract good replacements.

 

 

 

[khay]

Good:

1. We have the personnel to dominate 5-on-5 play.

2. OEL is a #1Dman.

3. Podkolzin.

4. Garland. 

5. Loui Player Name still sucks.

 

Bad:

1. We are badly lacking in the leadership department. We need to surround Horvat with better leadership group. We used to have Marky, Edler, Tanev who provided that support, but now they are all gone.

2. Soft bottom 6 resulting in poor PK. And no one in the pipeline that can step into that PK and defensive role. I'm hoping Lockwood is that guy, but we need more than just one guy. 

3. Lack of a defensive defenceman. Hamonic is the only guy who plays tough defence and he is not vaccinated. OEL is also good but he does it by reading the plays and breaking plays before they develop.  We need one more guy.

 

I think the pieces that are missing are the pieces that we let walk for free, namely Tanev and Edler. I don't know how hard it is going to be to find another Tanev and another Edler, preferably younger. I'm guessing that it's not easy unless we part with significant asset.

 

Addressing the needs in the bottom 6 should be easier either via UFA or trade. Re-signing Pearson who doesn't bring that gritty game while almost nothing offensively for 3 mil was a huge mistake. That cap could have been used to re-sign Edler or sign someone like Blake Coleman (I know he is paid more than 3 mil). But now that money is tied up on Pearson even if someone like Coleman becomes available next off-season.

 

Ultimately, I think the good that should come out from this season is that Benning and Green will be fired. And I'm a Benning supporter, I wanted Benning to do well and finish what he started especially since I was convinced after 2020, that we were truly about 2 years away.

 

And then, he went out and let Tanev, Toffoli, and Edler walk away and re-signed Pearson. 

 

JB can't finish what he started because he lost objectivity.

[EdgarM]

This is not going to be popular, I know that, but here goes. 

I am guessing most of us want a Championship some day? A Cup? 

I know I keep talking about the successes of the 94' team and how we failed miserably in 2011. 

If we simplify these runs I would say the 94' team had the character with a lot of heart and soul. Players became heroes with the "Brown to Bure" or "The Save" or "Greg Adams!". Players "upped" their game and their stats show it. Oh yeah, Bure elbowed Churla too. 

How about our heroes in 2011? We slayed the dragon but what other Heroism occurred? Daniel got humiliated by Marchand?

The 2011 team was the skilled bunch who "on paper" should have dominated Boston. But all we got from that run was excuses, the refs, injuries etc. We were out muscled and out worked. 

So, since then, we have tried to build the same thing with this group. Small, non-hitting, non-aggressive and no-one wanting to be heroes. We are Ok when we lose and we just move on to the next game. Our coaches tell us, as do the players. 

When we are losing , the skilled players do nothing and we usually get lucky and some of our more character players up their play. We have seen this from Hogs, Garland and Podz and oh yeah, Demko 

Do we want players who go through slumps and cannot "up their games"? Do we want players who have no interest in being "Heroes"? 

We have had enough time to get a good look at our core and some players stick out as not having the character to carry this team to a championship. 

I think that is what we have learned. The last two seasons have showed us who we should keep and who we shouldn't. 

The fact that we have these players on our team, and because they cannot be taught to play otherwise, tells me the Coach and GM need to go.

An experienced President is probably where we start and then he assesses who should stay and who should go. 

If we try to ignore the glaring problems, we will just be covering up problems which will plague us for years and years to come. 

Since this is a sport, I think the product should be entertaining and right now, this hockey is not very entertaining.  Changes need to happen NOW!