Canucks Curse Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) naslund, sedins last years with Canucks were bad teams, so arguably they could have done even better on good teams Edited August 8, 2022 by Canucks Curse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, 204CanucksFan said: Can I ask an honest question? I've been away from the board for a few months, can you please explain to me why you feel JT is the defacto leader on the team? Or maybe I'm improperly summarizing your viewpoint. I'm not trying to be insulting or trolling or anything like that. I just have a different opinion than you and I noticed another poster tag you to invite you to comment on a different thread (of the many threads relating to JT and his future with the team) and share your opinions. I also enjoy a good debate and clash of ideas, without personal attacks or insults, and am open to changing my own opinion when presented with reasonable/rational view points. Anyway, again, I'd love to have a discussion about this topic but totally understand if you don't want to rehash points you've made elsewhere with someone who simply hasn't seen them. Looking forward to your response and viewpoint, but feel free to totally ignore my request if you're not up for it or just don't want to. Also I enjoy the vast majority of your posts. It has nothing to do with points,. JT’s presence grew on the team with me durring Covid.. yes, believe it or not. We were possibly the hardest team hit by the longest stretch of games lost and loss of players throughout the season im referring to. When it was time to go back , the NHL basically gave the team a day to prepare and get back to full play the next day. Neither management, or Coaching staff said anything,. Nor did Horvat.. but JT was beside himself and came out publicly to denounce a situation that could have serious implications to his team mates and himself. He was as diplomatically correct as he could be in the interview,. And not long after that , meetings happened between the NHL and team to try and address the situation. Dont get me wrong , it’s not this one interview that swayed me,. But in any interview, this player is so far from anecdotal or building a vocabulary full of clichés. Since his arrival, playing with team mates durring games , he is vocal , involved, emotional, intense.. that builds others to come “alive” in their own game. I feel the silence of the Sedins rubbed off on to Horvat, .. it’s Stoic , but to what degree does that emit drive and intensity , especially when you’ve got full tanks of testosterone in a lot of players on this club.. someone has to show them how to tap into that. I think this is the interview I’m referring to , I don’t think the date that the vid was posted reflects the date of the interview. .. I appreciate your question,. It’s obvious a responsibility comes with being Captain.. Some wear it as a weight to carry on their back, others ride it like it’s their favourite War Horse. Leadership should not be diluted down as a group effort.. the Captain is the Leader. His ethic should grow on the Team as a group supporting each other with that value. Miller, to me has been doing that here, because there has been a void, and it needed to be filled. If Miller is traded or leaves,. I’m confident That void will return.. players like him are hard to find. Edited August 8, 2022 by SilentSam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Canucks Curse said: naslund, sedins last years with Canucks were bad teams, so arguably they could have done even better on good teams When your best players have a massive drop in production you usually become a bad team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) I missed out on a Sunday Funday here. Edited August 8, 2022 by Junkyard Dog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 19 hours ago, DeNiro said: It’s possible but I think it’s unlikely based on his previous numbers. A lot seemed to go right for him last season. Not sure he can duplicate the season he just had. I hope we re-sign him and I’m wrong but just like Kadri I think he’s gonna get overpaid and not live up to the contract. Miller is in his prime while Kadri is 3 years older and having had a career year playing on the biggest offensive juggernaut the nhl has seen in quite some time, I don't think both cases are very comparable. Kadri also didn't even have a career year in goals, guy just picked up so many assists because the quality of his teammates was so high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Coconuts said: Wasn't speaking about you specifically. And probably, all the more reason to begin the process sooner than later. The gap between our young core and the next wave will become increasingly problematic the longer it's not worked on. yep its one of those should have begun yesterday problems. One of the things that really got me thinking about the 4 year timeline is Allvin's comments on Lekkerimaki, basically saying there's no rush to sign him and they see his development following that timeline to get here. And thats with being lucky having a top 10 consensus player drop to us. Most of our picks are likely to be in this 15-25 range where you can still find good players but take longer to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I agree. It will be a late first for sure as the team trading for Miller will be a contender. But for sure we will get an A prospect in return and either a roster player (young player who hasn't fully developed yet like a Chytil) or instead another pick. Giroux got a 1st, a 3rd and an A prospect (former top 10 pick). I would really hate for JR/PA to wait until the deadline to make a trade as there is no guarantee we will get a better deal than right now and if we are in a playoff spot that could get real messy. I am really hoping the Miller situation is resolved one way or another prior to the season starting as it's best for both parties involved... I absolutely get it. To me Miller is a great player and almost exactly what i hope for in a a Canuck. That's really tough (and rough!) to ignore. And don't think it's the end of the world IF we just let things play out with him in the lineup, and the exchange is playoffs. And then give him a nice send off see you later, enjoy your legacy deal (somewhere else). It's not going to ruin this team for sure, so many different things have been said about how he's been an inspiration...Podz most recently, looking at him, and what it's like to be a pro and play 26 minutes a game down the stretch where he was trying to keep his legs going with his minutes. Bruce i'm sure enjoys having him too. Guess i've reached the acceptance stage. Wanted to move Pearson and whatever we could during the bubble. Didn't happen. Given what happened after Allvin took over, it looks like they are willing to be patient with this team as well. Have big doubts EP is ready to take on his role next season. Actually think Horvat needs to take over his insulation role IF Miller isn't in the lineup. Sometimes the best way forward is just to let the chips fall where they may. Obviously no team has offered up anything that moves the needle enough or a trade would have already been made. Kept saying this during the Bruce bump and down the stretch, maybe this year he's so good the value gets where it needs to be. Last season, and if anyone can correct me with actual facts - the trade return was all B.S., and became so constant that some on this site started to believe a reliable source existed where i sure couldn't find any. NYR wasn't and didn't offer up Schnieder for example. Maybe that changes. Sure could have used Miller last playoffs. As for his deal...well sure some crazy ones again this summer. Good thing for us and other teams, the overall available cap is becoming so slim .... that guys up next season probably take a long time to hash out by the time UFA season roles around. Millers and Horvats camp i'm sure are aware of this, same with every other guy who can sign now. It's a GM advantage that likely makes next UFA season a total slog. Unfortunately for us, i don't see much Miller action anytime soon. And if i had to make an actual bet, i'd say unless it happens before the season, better chance it doesn't happen at all. Pretty sure EP Miller ?? will be our top line again too. Glut of forwards allows for it. And that the owners, would prefer a playoff run over a 48-63 million dollar commitment and don't blame them for that either. Won't be the first guy we've had and wished we had longer (Larionov, Courtnall, Walker, Peca, Nedved, Ronning, Neely, Fraser even Nedved at the time etc ) of those guys Larionov and Courtnall were a similar age though. This is when the cap gets pretty frustrating. If we didn't have Demko i'd be all in for a COL style re-set. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 13 hours ago, combover said: when this club is built properly and has any nhl depth they’ll get the playoff experience.forcing it and losing top assets for nothing won’t advance this club. Let’s say they get the playoff experience then lose a top player for nothing don’t have the prospects or assets to replace him and the team struggles to get back in. that experience means nothing if we aren’t a perennial playoff team and if losing miller now for a futures means we aren’t a playoff team then it means the same next year when he leaves for nothing. Unless we once again over spend on a lesser older ufa and keep the never ending cycle that Jb started running. I’d like to keep miller and if we were in a position to potentially win a cup I’d totally agree but we aren’t so I see zero value in losing top tier players for nothing. If miller resigns for 5 years great 6-8 I feel is a mistake but losing him for nothing to me isn’t even an option regardless of playoff implication this season. he coming off a career year he’s got no trade protection his cap hit is manageable and even more so at the TDL and if we retained salary his value would go higher we will get more than 1 late round first. This whole circus is starting to have that same stink as when Gillis had a deal for Louie with TO and ownership said go get more and the deal fell apart. . As Burkie says, you still get the cap space if a player walks as a UFA. I understand people are frustrated with the past, and don't want to see a continuation of bad choices. I want us to retain one of our best players and it might take risking him walking. So far the reported returns have been mediocre if the media is to be believed. I just don't see the timelines working for picks contributing to this core. If the prospects are no better than what we have its a lateral move anyway e.g., a trade for a late 1st and Lundkvist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 9 hours ago, IBatch said: If i may, let's be real, teams who will be interested in Miller are playoff bound, the most serious of the bunch likely contenders. That's a later first best case, quite likely a late first. Almost certainly not a player we'd see on the team for a couple of years...pretty sure he's going to be on the opening roster, which is going to make it awfully hard to trade Miller at the deadline assuming we are in a good spot. If not, we take the best deal we can ... a lot of folks (but not all), overrated his return last deadline and nothing happened. Then it was the draft - still nothing. What the "experts" said he was worth was similar to the deal Claude Giroux got PHI.... last deadline. A roster player (for cap reasons), a grade A prospect - Tippet is one but also rather a meh one, and a first, of course a late one in this case. Sure it's not impossible, but sure have a tough time figuring out who in even the 10-15 range would be willing to trade with us. Why would they "load up" just for a shot at making the playoffs? Miller has premier rental written all over him. From a decent-contender level team. And if one of those 10-15ish level teams go for it this off season with him ... well they'd have to get some pretty bad luck to not improve their lot. For sure it's the prospect that will be the main piece coming in... and he should be close ... which is good. I am still hoping that Miller is moved before camp. If it doesn't happen I can still see his trade even if Canucks are in the playoff hunt. Many different scenarios play into that assumption. Bottom line is it is highly unlikely JT resigns in Van and something is better than nothing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 12 hours ago, SilentSam said: Well to be specific , lets call it Captaincy and the level of leadership that should specifically go with it / that. The Sedins we’re great players but no where near the level of Captaincy I look for in a Captain. To that I still appreciate everything Stan Smyl was , and still is to this organization. Stan, to me , is the pedestal level, or pinnacle of that earned level or privilege to command from. No, I think age is the outlier,. How can “I” be.… or my opinion. Youth, the Oilers have tried to build another youthful team for almost 20 years to carry them into the Dynasty books again. But somehow they’ve managed to have probably as many Cup appearances as they have Lottery appearances. So your saying a team like Tampa, or others that have great run’s consecutively with many players 29 + yr old are outliers. interesting. We can look at Colorado , but that’s been a lot of work to get 1 cup win.…and who is to say there is more? The flat cap, and now talented RFA ‘s having a greater hand in contracts than UFA’s, has Managers afraid to lose talent at every or any contract. im not baiting you, but if that’s your way sticking to your opinion and exiting the stage that’s fine.. Age is ScareCrow. Nothing wrong with having extra leadership on your team. Being a Captain for sure is a huge honour at the NHL level, and it's no coincidence, that teams often pick a vet over an up and coming star. The only C i disagreed with was picking Naslund over Jovo. Hank was fine. As far as Smyl goes i absolutely agree, try and find one guy in the entire league like that now. They don't exist anymore. Have to change with the times. Horvat was the best choice at the time, and he's grown into the role well enough. Orr, considered one of the best leaders all-time by Sportsnet, who released a book awhile ago, never wore the C on the big bad Bruins. He wasn't the only one either, Howe was also way up on their ranking list, ahead of Lindsay actually (4th i believe), although he was also way up there. Recall the start of last year and all the new faces. And the way they talked about how much leadership was in our dressing room. Your setting yourself up for disappointment if your still waiting for a Smyl type. Linden ... well let's just say, I for one am happy to have Horvat. And hope we get to see if he can keep up what he managed both as a green player against CAL (he was very good for us) and of course in the bubble ... nobody could handle St. Louis O'Reilly line but Horvat, certainly wasn't Miller or EP. That line was dangerous every single shift and guess who was sent over the boards to mitigate it, and guess who did his best Linden impression. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, JM_ said: yep its one of those should have begun yesterday problems. One of the things that really got me thinking about the 4 year timeline is Allvin's comments on Lekkerimaki, basically saying there's no rush to sign him and they see his development following that timeline to get here. And thats with being lucky having a top 10 consensus player drop to us. Most of our picks are likely to be in this 15-25 range where you can still find good players but take longer to develop. Agreed on all fronts, I like that there's no rush though because most of our top prospects will likely be middle of the pack 1st or 2nd round picks going forward. They'll need time, and we'll need to be patient with their development. I was really hoping we'd acquire more picks this past draft to help accelerate things but it didn't work out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, Boudrias said: I am still hoping that Miller is moved before camp. If it doesn't happen I can still see his trade even if Canucks are in the playoff hunt. Many different scenarios play into that assumption. Bottom line is it is highly unlikely JT resigns in Van and something is better than nothing. Agree for the most part except that nothing could be a sad sack of potatoes that rubs us as fans for awhile. It does happen. Trade flops and we waste cap on whomever comes here. Unlikely but possible. And the nothing isn't nothing if it means we make the playoffs and our guys get valuable experience. Pretty sure if Miller has another boffo season the city and province will be buzzing come April with anticipation. To me at least, a solid showing next Spring, plus his cap back and a nice see you later is more then worth the price paid for him. Not saying that's my preference, just pointing out it's not so terrible either. Have zero issues just enjoying him for one more year. And no i'm not Jim Benning lol. Not a fan of a re-sign unless it's 8-8.5 x 6 which also would be ok. By the time Miller fades, EP will be ready to take over. If we had EP, Demko, QHs locked in full term things would be different. We don't. Will be interesting to see which lane Allvin takes. Not holding my breath for a big return though, i've been consistent with that since last season. But do understand best possible case is we do trade him, and those guys work out really well for us so get where your coming from and others in the trade Miller camp. All 3 scenarios have their pro's and con's. Tough to pull a huge piece out of the lineup if we are playing as well as we did down the stretch or better until the TDL though. Really doubt he's traded in that case. Preferably if it's going to happen, it needs to happen before the puck drops in October. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Agreed on all fronts, I like that there's no rush though because most of our top prospects will likely be middle of the pack 1st or 2nd round picks going forward. They'll need time, and we'll need to be patient with their development. I was really hoping we'd acquire more picks this past draft to help accelerate things but it didn't work out that way. I was surprised too, I thought at least something like a 3rd for Pearson, e.g. Time will fix Bennings roster mistakes, in two years they are all gone but I'm not expecting any returns for any of them and we can't afford to pay to move them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 I am hoping Miller gets moved, before Oct.2nd, because it eliminates a lot of possible problems going forward. I agree that he likely has another great season but since he is not likely to resign here I want something back. I don't disagree with the idea that even if he is moved that the Canucks still make playoffs. Bottom line the new management has to be lazer focused on 3-4 years out. Get the CAP space and do further deals from strength. I don't want the team pay structure disrupted by a Miller contract that pays to much and gives to much term. It clouds the timeline. Miller does not fit that timeline. All this aside I wonder how quickly the CAP grows over the next 3-5 years? 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 Millers not being traded until the trade deadline at approximately 1:37 Eastern Book it 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Boudrias said: I am hoping Miller gets moved, before Oct.2nd, because it eliminates a lot of possible problems going forward. I agree that he likely has another great season but since he is not likely to resign here I want something back. I don't disagree with the idea that even if he is moved that the Canucks still make playoffs. Bottom line the new management has to be lazer focused on 3-4 years out. Get the CAP space and do further deals from strength. I don't want the team pay structure disrupted by a Miller contract that pays to much and gives to much term. It clouds the timeline. Miller does not fit that timeline. All this aside I wonder how quickly the CAP grows over the next 3-5 years? Yup. And the best deal for Miller is one that returns the highest picks and clears all his cap. No contracts coming back. Don’t do a stupid Cowpie move and take back old guys who cost big dollars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fanuck Posted August 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Yup. And the best deal for Miller is one that returns the highest picks and clears all his cap. No contracts coming back. Don’t do a stupid Cowpie move and take back old guys who cost big dollars. I'd have no problem retaining the maximum amount on Miller's contract for his one remaining season if it enables us to facilitate a deal where we recoup exactly what we need. 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Yup. And the best deal for Miller is one that returns the highest picks and clears all his cap. No contracts coming back. Don’t do a stupid Cowpie move and take back old guys who cost big dollars. If we get a guy that fills a need (RHD/3C) and/or expires this year, it's fine. We could also retain salary as an alternative to taking cap back. Whatever it takes to get the best return and minimize long term cap, unless it fills a need (RHD/3C). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stawns Posted August 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 8, 2022 I seriously cannot believe so many are just fine with losing Miller for nothing after years of whining about JB letting players walk. 1 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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