KirkSave Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: A team with Hughes and Lundkvist (likely on different pairings) isn't a "team full of Hughes" though. Like I said earlier, it depends on what you surround them with. If it is a well balanced d core, I agree. The same can be said about forward groups. You need guys with size too to create space for the skill guys and even those types of players have skill (ex. Tom Wilson). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, KirkSave said: What I am getting at, is that you need all of those things. Speed, skill and come playoff time, d that can clear the crease, stand up to the pressure, throw and take hits. You need to have balance in this respect. If you had a team full of Hughes, yea you get the puck up, great first pass and skating but ni intimidation and guys going into the corner with their head on a swivel. MTL made the finals last year in large part to their big 4 D, Weber, Petry, Chiarot and Edmundson. Yes, the game is much faster and more skilled but having D with size is necessarry to go far in the playoffs. Hughes Hamonic Oel Lundquist JR Myers I don't see anything wrong with that as they'd have a mobile puck mover on every pair and a dependable, bigger bodied partner. They'd also have cap space to go after ufa's as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkSave Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Hughes Hamonic Oel Lundquist JR Myers I don't see anything wrong with that as they'd have a mobile puck mover on every pair and a dependable, bigger bodied partner. They'd also have cap space to go after ufa's as well Looks good on paper and in theory could work well. Only issue is Hamonics so injury prone but I agree that those pairings compliment one another nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Provost Posted February 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said: the term asset management borders on the absurd. JT Miller for 2 1st round picks is good asset management. The likelihood of those picks panning out to become JT Miller is exceptionally low forget being better than him. The team that gets the best player in the trade wins the trade. This is proven more often than not. There is no way we are getting the best player when we trade Miller. A lot people play too much video game hockey where you can always trade players as who cares on the impact in the room they are virtual hockey players. This is drastically simplistic to the point of being absurd. There is the issue of club control, contract value, and opportunity cost all rolled into decision that go far beyond just the quality of the player. We currently have Miller for this throwaway season and one more. That is it. At the end of next season is it better to have nothing or some assets that can help us long term? The best player in the trade is one we actually still have in the organization. Who cares how good Miller is if he is on a different team? it is “possible” we could re-sign Miller… so we have to figure in the chance of re-signing him. We KNOW we have Garland for several years under cap control so he is more valuable to us than the same player with only a year left. With Miller it is the opposite, he is less valuable to us because we don’t own his rights. If Miller goes to free agency, which his agent will certainly be pushing for him to do… then we have to pay market rates even IF he decides to sign with us (which he may not). Miller at $8.5 million for 7 years into his mid 30’s is a much worse deal than him at under $6 million during his prime. Look at all sorts of deals that turned out bad for guys at exactly the same point in their careers… Lucic? Neal? Player Name? Etc. The “wins” for signing guys long term at that age are far more rare than the ones that turn into albatrosses and dramatically affect your ability to compete. Then there is the opportunity cost with what you can do with that cap space. If we got a deal like Schneider, Kravtsov, and a 1st… those are club controlled assets and will give us years of cheaper ELC contracts where we can expect to get more production than what we are paying. Just like Petterson playing the way he is now for $7 million is much more problematic than him playing like that for a $1 million ELC. The leftover cap can be used to shore up other areas of the roster. We aren’t winning a Cup this year, and have a remote chance next year if we bring back most do the same lineup… Rutherford is even saying it is a couple years. What is more valuable in two years? 1. No Miller and no assets back in trade? 2. Miller at $8.5 million (signed to well past his prime) that also necessitates trading a guy like Boeser… 3. A young blue chip RHD, a young blue chip forward prospect, and a 1st round pick that can also be flipped to move out cap money or bring in an excellent roster player? I have time for Rutherford if he says he didn’t like the offers and wants to wait until the draft or July 1st to see if Miller re-signs for a reasonable deal (same with Horvat). I also think that it is even possible we could get the same sort of trade for Miller at the draft as now. He is under club control for less time, but there will be a whole lot more teams in the mix for his services. That will include bad teams who need to get better now and may have high 1st round draft picks they would be willing to trade. If we go into next season with either him or Horvat on the rosters AND without extensions signed, that is a Benning level catastrophe ready to happen. Edited February 18, 2022 by Provost 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Rutherford, making sure teams know they are going to have to pay for Miller. Plays the media talk quite well. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, gurn said: Rutherford, making sure teams know they are going to have to pay for Miller. Plays the media talk quite well. Let's just hope he doesn't cave and accept a package of middling assets and undersized Dmen for Miller like some here would suggest. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 25 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Let's just hope he doesn't cave and accept a package of middling assets and undersized Dmen for Miller like some here would suggest. such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Let me remind people, that the two front-runners for the Norris trophy, in the first half of the season, are both under 6’0ft and weight less than 200lbs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 36 minutes ago, shiznak said: Let me remind people, that the two front-runners for the Norris trophy, in the first half of the season, are both under 6’0ft and weight less than 200lbs. For me personally, I don't care...the Norris is an INDIVIDUAL award, all I care about is the Canucks bring the Stanley Cup home to Vancouver so we can ALL party!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said: For me personally, I don't care...the Norris is an INDIVIDUAL award, all I care about is the Canucks bring the Stanley Cup home to Vancouver so we can ALL party!!! Well those too puny, Norris candidates are on pretty good teams, with darn good chances at a cup, so... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, shiznak said: Let me remind people, that the two front-runners for the Norris trophy, in the first half of the season, are both under 6’0ft and weight less than 200lbs. And we have our own in Hughes. Still would prefer bigger bodies playing proper aggressive shut down roles and leave the offense to Huggy, OEL and Myers. Potentially Boner next year too for offense, but if he is utilized then definitely need to dispatch Poolman and Hamonic, and pick up a young NHL level version of Schenn for the 5/6. I’d love for us to pick up Graves for the 3rd pairing D. He’s team first and we need that kind of grit. Reminds me of a nasty version of Brent Sopel, who for his faults was also a heart and soul guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, gurn said: Rutherford, making sure teams know they are going to have to pay for Miller. Plays the media talk quite well. Seravalli says teams have moved on to their B and C options because they feel that Vancouver is torn on what to do with Miller. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mll said: Seravalli says teams have moved on to their B and C options because they feel that Vancouver is torn on what to do with Miller. I don't think they're torn it all. They're not giving him away for peanuts and are perfectly fine retaining him through the season if teams aren't willing to pay the price to acquire a top player for two playoff runs, on a bargain deal. Why sell him at a discount and disrupt your presently hard battling team, when you can get the same offer in the summer? Yeah, they're using the media. Edited February 18, 2022 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnuckleHead16 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 JT for Kevin Fiala is fricken laugh my ass off kinda of stupid deal! If we’re planning on trading JT we better be getting a First rd pick plus a 2nd and a top notch prospect! We should be trading guys like Myers, Pearson Dickinson, Poolman or Garland! Why trade our core! Open up cap room is what we should be doing! Keep our core players you cray crays! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 5 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said: the term asset management borders on the absurd. JT Miller for 2 1st round picks is good asset management. The likelihood of those picks panning out to become JT Miller is exceptionally low forget being better than him. The team that gets the best player in the trade wins the trade. This is proven more often than not. There is no way we are getting the best player when we trade Miller. A lot people play too much video game hockey where you can always trade players as who cares on the impact in the room they are virtual hockey players. You can always trade two assets for 1, so it makes sense to trade everyone for a 7th round pick because you can then trade 2 7th round picks for a 6th round pick...2 6th round picks for a 5th round pick and so on and so on...Because you are managing your assets. You are always getting something for nothing. You are always improving the asset base! Sports is not a game of quantity. It is a game of quality. Quality is not obtained by trading quantity for quality. No smart GM would do that. Quantity is available in free agency every year. Those same 1st round picks are available in free agency, waiver wires or simple trades every year. Elite players are never available for a reason. There is a good amount of luck in obtaining truely exceptional players. When do have one, you don't trade them for quantity just to level the balance sheet. "To manage the cap and the term and the age and the whatever." You have to actually get a good player back not beans or maybes. It's abot cap issues. Three players on ELC or as RFA is better than one UFA. We got depth issues and a small team that is a bit weak in playoffs. Miller is gonna be expensive to keep and that will affect the depth. So trading Miller for three to four players gives depth and more options to the future as our window lies in the future, not now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Miller for Laf straight up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 hours ago, stawns said: such as? You know perfectly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Blitz-Pix Posted February 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2022 I'd love to know what sort of package the Rangers (Management, Media & Fans) would expect in return for Mika Zibanejad. I realize they're not trading him but I'm curious what they feel he's worth in a trade. Last 3 years Mika Zibanejad - Cap hit 2022 $5,350,000 - GP 162 - Points 175 JT Miller - Cap Hit 2022 $5,250,000 - GP 170 - Points 168 Their totals are ALMOST identical and some might say JT has accomplished more with a lesser team. As it stands right now, if the Rangers acquired JT Miller and inserted him into their line up he would be their 2nd leading scorer... actually he be tied for 2nd with Zibanejad (surprise, surprise) each have 50 points but Miller has played 1 less game. The big advantage is that Miller has 1 more year left on his $5,25 million contract - Next year Zibanejad's new 8 year $8.5 million AVV kicks in. By the way, if anyone is wondering what a new Miller contract might look like - look no further (IMO) So my question is simple - what would the Rangers expect in return for Zibanejad (cause IMO that's at least what Miller should be worth) If the Rangers don't like our asking price - who cares...they called us, we didn't call them. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Blitz-Pix said: I'd love to know what sort of package the Rangers (Management, Media & Fans) would expect in return for Mika Zibanejad. I realize they're not trading him but I'm curious what they feel he's worth in a trade. Last 3 years Mika Zibanejad - Cap hit 2022 $5,350,000 - GP 162 - Points 175 JT Miller - Cap Hit 2022 $5,250,000 - GP 170 - Points 168 Their totals are ALMOST identical and some might say JT has accomplished more with a lesser team. As it stands right now, if the Rangers acquired JT Miller and inserted him into their line up he would be their 2nd leading scorer... actually he be tied for 2nd with Zibanejad (surprise, surprise) each have 50 points but Miller has played 1 less game. The big advantage is that Miller has 1 more year left on his $5,25 million contract - Next year Zibanejad's new 8 year $8.5 million AVV kicks in. By the way, if anyone is wondering what a new Miller contract might look like - look no further (IMO) So my question is simple - what would the Rangers expect in return for Zibanejad (cause IMO that's at least what Miller should be worth) If the Rangers don't like our asking price - who cares...they called us, we didn't call them. Yep. If the Rangers don't want to meet our demands and price for Miller, then they can miss the boat. We'll see how desperate they become as the deadline comes closer. I say they crumble, and they include Schneider in a deal for Miller. But that's just my prediction. New York's moment is now. They are in win-now mode, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 5 hours ago, gurn said: Rutherford, making sure teams know they are going to have to pay for Miller. Plays the media talk quite well. How do you figure he’s played the media talk quite well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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