KirkSave Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 10 hours ago, shiznak said: Let me remind people, that the two front-runners for the Norris trophy, in the first half of the season, are both under 6’0ft and weight less than 200lbs. And let's see how they fare in the playoffs. The Post season is an entirely different beast. Remember how Vegas smothered Hughes and made his game obsolete in the Bubble? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, KirkSave said: And let's see how they fare in the playoffs. The Post season is an entirely different beast. Remember how Vegas smothered Hughes and made his game obsolete in the Bubble? Nice try. Hughes set the record for most points EVER in the playoffs by a rookie D. Find a new pond. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, aGENT said: I don't think they're torn it all. They're not giving him away for peanuts and are perfectly fine retaining him through the season if teams aren't willing to pay the price to acquire a top player for two playoff runs, on a bargain deal. Why sell him at a discount and disrupt your presently hard battling team, when you can get the same offer in the summer? Yeah, they're using the media. Didn't sound like it was about a better return but about whether he's even available. Per Seravalli teams have moved on because the sense is that Vancouver isn't committed to moving Miller. He even thinks they could keep Miller for next season. Talked of how they could move on from Boeser which helps the objective of opening cap space while keeping Miller who brings so much more and has a lower cap hit. In his interview Rutherford talks of how they hope to keep enough good players that they can continue to compete. He also points out that offence is carried by only a handful of players. He was asked about his philosophy on signing players in their 30s. Rutherford insisted that he's not speaking of anyone in particular but in general. He's not necessarily against it. He gave the example of a 6 year deal and says you have to be aware of your competitive window and realise that maybe the player won't have the same role the final 2 years but there are example of players who can play well into their 30s. Talks of how you also have to look at how players take care of themselves and keep themselves in shape. Says it all factors in in making that kind of decision. Edited February 18, 2022 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkSave Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: Nice try. Hughes set the record for most points EVER in the playoffs by a rookie D. Find a new pond. My comment has nothing to do with Hughes lack of talent. There is no denying he is a special player. My point is that the playoffs are a harder, faster, more intense game and that speed and skill alone does not equate in success. Got eat a cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Just now, KirkSave said: My comment has nothing to do with Hughes lack of talent. There is no denying he is a special player. My point is that the playoffs are a harder, faster, more intense game and that speed and skill alone does not equate in success. Got eat a cat Hughes = Playoff record for scoring. Your point be fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkSave Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Hughes = Playoff record for scoring. Your point be fishing. Maybe one day Quinn will get the Conn Smythe and we win the Cup but b/w now and then, he will need to continue to improve his all around game. Just like other players will need to add new elements, strength to their game if we want to win (Horvat, Petey, Boeser). But if we continue to play a soft team game and don't have push back we won't win $&!#. For example, when Motte got tossed in the 3rd period, Miller at least had a response, whereas our C, hardly even reacted. We need more players with Miller's mentality. Skill & Grit is what we need more of. Teams better pony up if they want our MVP outside of Demko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 38 minutes ago, KirkSave said: Maybe one day Quinn will get the Conn Smythe and we win the Cup but b/w now and then, he will need to continue to improve his all around game. Just like other players will need to add new elements, strength to their game if we want to win (Horvat, Petey, Boeser). But if we continue to play a soft team game and don't have push back we won't win $&!#. For example, when Motte got tossed in the 3rd period, Miller at least had a response, whereas our C, hardly even reacted. We need more players with Miller's mentality. Skill & Grit is what we need more of. Teams better pony up if they want our MVP outside of Demko. Why do people think they play "soft"? They play a pretty aggressive game, actually 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, mll said: Didn't sound like it was about a better return but about whether he's even available. Per Seravalli teams have moved on because the sense is that Vancouver isn't committed to moving Miller. He even thinks they could keep Miller for next season. Talked of how they could move on from Boeser which helps the objective of opening cap space while keeping Miller who brings so much more and has a lower cap hit. In his interview Rutherford talks of how they hope to keep enough good players that they can continue to compete. He also points out that offence is carried by only a handful of players. He was asked about his philosophy on signing players in their 30s. Rutherford insisted that he's not speaking of anyone in particular but in general. He's not necessarily against it. He gave the example of a 6 year deal and says you have to be aware of your competitive window and realise that maybe the player won't have the same role the final 2 years but there are example of players who can play well into their 30s. Talks of how you also have to look at how players take care of themselves and keep themselves in shape. Says it all factors in in making that kind of decision. That's all great, but that's exactly what you say when you're using the media. Does any of what he said there hurt Miller's trade value? Exactly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Durst Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 18 minutes ago, stawns said: Why do people think they play "soft"? They play a pretty aggressive game, actually 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gurn Posted February 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2022 8 hours ago, N4ZZY said: How do you figure he’s played the media talk quite well? He has indicated no desire to trade anyone; yet is willing if the offers are good enough. Wants to hold off till they know about the play off chances, yet is willing if the offer is good enough. no rush to trade anyone, still gathering info, going to get together in the next little while and decide team direction.- but will still trade if the offers are good enough. Media runs away and repeats what he says. Mission accomplished ' You want J.T. Miller? You are going to have to pay for J.T. Miller.' 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 14 hours ago, Provost said: This is drastically simplistic to the point of being absurd. There is the issue of club control, contract value, and opportunity cost all rolled into decision that go far beyond just the quality of the player. We currently have Miller for this throwaway season and one more. That is it. At the end of next season is it better to have nothing or some assets that can help us long term? The best player in the trade is one we actually still have in the organization. Who cares how good Miller is if he is on a different team? it is “possible” we could re-sign Miller… so we have to figure in the chance of re-signing him. We KNOW we have Garland for several years under cap control so he is more valuable to us than the same player with only a year left. With Miller it is the opposite, he is less valuable to us because we don’t own his rights. If Miller goes to free agency, which his agent will certainly be pushing for him to do… then we have to pay market rates even IF he decides to sign with us (which he may not). Miller at $8.5 million for 7 years into his mid 30’s is a much worse deal than him at under $6 million during his prime. Look at all sorts of deals that turned out bad for guys at exactly the same point in their careers… Lucic? Neal? Player Name? Etc. The “wins” for signing guys long term at that age are far more rare than the ones that turn into albatrosses and dramatically affect your ability to compete. Then there is the opportunity cost with what you can do with that cap space. If we got a deal like Schneider, Kravtsov, and a 1st… those are club controlled assets and will give us years of cheaper ELC contracts where we can expect to get more production than what we are paying. Just like Petterson playing the way he is now for $7 million is much more problematic than him playing like that for a $1 million ELC. The leftover cap can be used to shore up other areas of the roster. We aren’t winning a Cup this year, and have a remote chance next year if we bring back most do the same lineup… Rutherford is even saying it is a couple years. What is more valuable in two years? 1. No Miller and no assets back in trade? 2. Miller at $8.5 million (signed to well past his prime) that also necessitates trading a guy like Boeser… 3. A young blue chip RHD, a young blue chip forward prospect, and a 1st round pick that can also be flipped to move out cap money or bring in an excellent roster player? I have time for Rutherford if he says he didn’t like the offers and wants to wait until the draft or July 1st to see if Miller re-signs for a reasonable deal (same with Horvat). I also think that it is even possible we could get the same sort of trade for Miller at the draft as now. He is under club control for less time, but there will be a whole lot more teams in the mix for his services. That will include bad teams who need to get better now and may have high 1st round draft picks they would be willing to trade. If we go into next season with either him or Horvat on the rosters AND without extensions signed, that is a Benning level catastrophe ready to happen. You have a lot of Ifs in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 11 hours ago, Timråfan said: It's abot cap issues. Three players on ELC or as RFA is better than one UFA. We got depth issues and a small team that is a bit weak in playoffs. Miller is gonna be expensive to keep and that will affect the depth. So trading Miller for three to four players gives depth and more options to the future as our window lies in the future, not now. Depth is definitely not the issue. The Canucks have more forwards with 10+ or 7+ goals then almost every team in the NHL. Its the quality that is the issue. The Canucks need better players not more average players. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 26 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: You have a lot of Ifs in there. Ya, they each cover all the different scenarios. That isn't the same as you seem to be suggesting which is people using a bunch of assumptions on top of each other to build a flimsy case. This is literally like computer code. If "A" condition happens, then "X" result... If "B" condition happens, then "Y" result... if "C" condition happens, then "Z" result. As in... there are three possible outcomes (traded, re-signed, let walk), then an explanation of what each one would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 12 hours ago, mll said: Seravalli says teams have moved on to their B and C options because they feel that Vancouver is torn on what to do with Miller. That is probably a signal that the offers just aren't good enough and the other teams aren't yet at the point of upping their offers. Most folks on here are pretty much on the same page that there needs to be a significant haul in return. If a team like the Rangers wants to make a bunch of prospects and young players untouchable in trade... then they don't get a PPG all situations power forward on a great contract. Simple math. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 hours ago, aGENT said: That's all great, but that's exactly what you say when you're using the media. Does any of what he said there hurt Miller's trade value? Exactly. Seravalli is getting that information from other teams - not from Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, mll said: Seravalli is getting that information from other teams - not from Vancouver. thats why I doubt all of it. It only serves other teams to shake our tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, JM_ said: thats why I doubt all of it. It only serves other teams to shake our tree. What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, mll said: What do you mean? the hockey media is fuelled by idle speculation. A lot of "info" comes from teams trying to create pressure in other markets, or just hockey media looking for click bait. I have no doubt actual conversations are happening between Rutherford and other GMs, but I doubt any of the media folks have any real info on whats really on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Blitz-Pix said: I'd love to know what sort of package the Rangers (Management, Media & Fans) would expect in return for Mika Zibanejad. I realize they're not trading him but I'm curious what they feel he's worth in a trade. Last 3 years Mika Zibanejad - Cap hit 2022 $5,350,000 - GP 162 - Points 175 JT Miller - Cap Hit 2022 $5,250,000 - GP 170 - Points 168 Their totals are ALMOST identical and some might say JT has accomplished more with a lesser team. As it stands right now, if the Rangers acquired JT Miller and inserted him into their line up he would be their 2nd leading scorer... actually he be tied for 2nd with Zibanejad (surprise, surprise) each have 50 points but Miller has played 1 less game. The big advantage is that Miller has 1 more year left on his $5,25 million contract - Next year Zibanejad's new 8 year $8.5 million AVV kicks in. By the way, if anyone is wondering what a new Miller contract might look like - look no further (IMO) So my question is simple - what would the Rangers expect in return for Zibanejad (cause IMO that's at least what Miller should be worth) If the Rangers don't like our asking price - who cares...they called us, we didn't call them. Something tells me the Rangers media and fans would laugh at an offer of Rathbone, Goldobin, Gaudette and a 1st. That's basically what they are offering us right now in terms of value, maybe even less as they are only currently offering 3 pieces I believe. Maybe JR should ask the Rangers what they want for MZ and then say yeah plus we want more since JT is on a good deal for another 1.5 seasons. Whereas MZ is getting PAID with that new contract 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakuRaku Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 I honestly don't know why we would entertain offers for JT... he's a leader, plays with a lot of heart and grit... and is having a career season... one more year on his contract... unless Management doesn't feel confident he'd wanna stay... The return gotta be unbelievably appealing for us to consider trading him... I know our playoff chances are slim this season but JT would be a huge piece for us to make a push next season!! Boeser on the other hand is a pending RFA... it could pose some contract negotiation challenges in summer if he demands more than $7M... so I would rather trade him if a deal makes sense!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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