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[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks


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On 2/15/2022 at 7:51 PM, Fanuck said:

Some media are suggesting that with the recent emergence of Schneider due to some injuries,  he's bordering on the 'untouchable' category for the Rags.  Their likely going to pawn off lesser assets if they engage with Allvin at all.

Comical, I have heard the New York media, even the Boston media on their valuations of assets that could snag the Bruins or Rangers a Miller for example. I laugh at all this talk about " if Vancouver is serious about trading Miller they need to understand the Rangers won't move player X or player Y as they are as close to untouchable as one can be.

 

Hello!?

 

The Canucks have zero reason to be pressured into a move and they can be as serious as they want in regards to Miller when they DON'T have to trade him, but teams want him. I know some here are trying to temper expectations or feel CDC always over values the Canucks players. JT Miller is one case where you can literally sit back and demand the sky's the limit in regards to returns. If the Rangers want Miller, buck up or look elsewhere. If Allvin names his price or isolates a specific player in return pay it or the team keeps him.

 

From what i've heard is Drury already tabled an offer and the Canucks did not even flinch, he doesn't take that type of response well (is his character) reported in the media and that may have rubbed the Rangers the wrong way. Again, not the Canucks problem. If nobody pays up before the deadline the Canucks are the one's who retained the best asset out there lol.

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5 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Comical, I have heard the New York media, even the Boston media on their valuations of assets that could snag the Bruins or Rangers a Miller for example. I laugh at all this talk about " if Vancouver is serious about trading Miller they need to understand the Rangers won't move player X or player Y as they are as close to untouchable as one can be.

 

Hello!?

 

The Canucks have zero reason to be pressured into a move and they can be as serious as they want in regards to Miller when they DON'T have to trade him, but teams want him. I know some here are trying to temper expectations or feel CDC always over values the Canucks players. JT Miller is one case where you can literally sit back and demand the sky's the limit in regards to returns. If the Rangers want Miller, buck up or look elsewhere. If Allvin names his price or isolates a specific player in return pay it or the team keeps him.

 

From what i've heard is Drury already tabled an offer and the Canucks did not even flinch, he doesn't take that type of response well (is his character) reported in the media and that may have rubbed the Rangers the wrong way. Again, not the Canucks problem. If nobody pays up before the deadline the Canucks are the one's who retained the best asset out there lol.

JR is an old hat at this negotiating game so I love hearing he's irritating a young GM who's maybe not used to dealing with a Jedi Master.

 

Feels good for a change to know that our guy actually knows how to play the game.

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3 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

You got to sell value to get value. Our concerns with Boeser's contract are the same concerns with the acquiring team. 

Well not exactly for contenders right?? They are usually the ones to overpay for assets that may help them get far into the playoffs? 

 

In Boeser, we can get top prospects and/or high draft picks!

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3 hours ago, RakuRaku said:

I honestly don't know why we would entertain offers for JT... he's a leader, plays with a lot of heart and grit... and is having a career season... one more year on his contract... unless Management doesn't feel confident he'd wanna stay...

 

The return gotta be unbelievably appealing for us to consider trading him... I know our playoff chances are slim this season but JT would be a huge piece for us to make a push next season!! 

 

Boeser on the other hand is a pending RFA... it could pose some contract negotiation challenges in summer if he demands more than $7M... so I would rather trade him if a deal makes sense!!

Personally, it's because he's going to cost a lot more than they can afford and over a long term when he'll be declining.  They need both the cap flexibility and significant return to fill the large gap in the lineup

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3 hours ago, Provost said:

Ya, they each cover all the different scenarios.  That isn't the same as you seem to be suggesting which is people using a bunch of assumptions on top of each other to build a flimsy case.  This is literally like computer code.  If "A" condition happens, then "X" result... If "B" condition happens, then "Y" result... if "C" condition happens, then "Z" result.

As in... there are three possible outcomes (traded, re-signed, let walk), then an explanation of what each one would look like.

A computer code eh?  Hockey is a little more chaotic than logical.  I get the gist of what you are saying.  What I think you are missing in what I am saying is that there is a massive over emphasis on "asset management" in the way of thinking about building a hockey team than actually building a hockey team.  You always take into consideration all variables in all of your decision making.  Its the value on each variable that matters.  The most important variable is team construction.  12 Brock Boeser's won't win you a championship, but from an asset management standpoint that would be the most asset rich team in the league.  The top 50 players in the NHL are not easy to trade for.  Especially not if you are trading multiple pieces for that top 50 player.  That means that simple as saying he lets trade Miller to manage the asset.  Your chance of getting a Miller back at some point is very low.  This is the point that the asset managers miss.  Getting quality from asset management is a very difficult task.  

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14 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

A computer code eh?  Hockey is a little more chaotic than logical.  I get the gist of what you are saying.  What I think you are missing in what I am saying is that there is a massive over emphasis on "asset management" in the way of thinking about building a hockey team than actually building a hockey team.  You always take into consideration all variables in all of your decision making.  Its the value on each variable that matters.  The most important variable is team construction.  12 Brock Boeser's won't win you a championship, but from an asset management standpoint that would be the most asset rich team in the league.  The top 50 players in the NHL are not easy to trade for.  Especially not if you are trading multiple pieces for that top 50 player.  That means that simple as saying he lets trade Miller to manage the asset.  Your chance of getting a Miller back at some point is very low.  This is the point that the asset managers miss.  Getting quality from asset management is a very difficult task.  

Except again... you are missing most of the entire point of my post. 

We don't have Miller after next season. 

The logic is just plain wrong to say "We won't likely get Miller back in the trade" so asset management is pretty meaningless.  I pointed out the ton of other variables at play that are equally important.





 

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2 hours ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said:

Maybe Allvin is kinda saying the offers were crap!

That's exactly what he is saying. 
we don't need to trade Miller... yet at least... so unless they show something worth trading for, nothing will happen. 

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16 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Great, so what you're saying is there's going to be another 4 or 5 hundred pages of nonsense in this thread by that time.....^_^

Yep.

 

The thing is, Miller could quiet all the speculation and be beloved in the city with one statement.

 

”I love it here and as soon as I am allowed, I will sign a long term deal for $7 million a year until I retire as a Canuck.  We are going to do our best to bring a Cup to this city.”

 

He won’t do it, few players do.  A guy like Mackinnon is an outlier.  The rest want to maximize their earnings and also have ego/NHLPA implications wrapped up in their negotiating trying to make as much as they can.  Then they are stuck in the last years of their careers signing bargain deals to try to win a Cup before they retire.  


Miller and Horvat could entirely change the fortunes of the team and their chances at winning a championship by signing value contracts and messaging to the rest of the players to do the same.  All for the price of maybe a million less a year than they could get on the open market.  They are still both going to have career earnings of over $80 million, so they have guaranteed the futures of generations of their family. 

 

It is also totally fair for them not to do that and take advantage of their UFA status to go where they want and for how much.  They have earned that.  If having $90 million instead of $80 million in earnings is worth more than spending the last half of your career on a winning team… that is a fine decision to make.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Provost said:

Yep.

 

The thing is, Miller could quiet all the speculation and be beloved in the city with one statement.

 

”I love it here and as soon as I am allowed, I will sign a long term deal for $7 million a year until I retire as a Canuck.  We are going to do our best to bring a Cup to this city.”

 

He won’t do it, few players do.  A guy like Mackinnon is an outlier.  The rest want to maximize their earnings and also have ego/NHLPA implications wrapped up in their negotiating trying to make as much as they can.  Then they are stuck in the last years of their careers signing bargain deals to try to win a Cup before they retire.  


Miller and Horvat could entirely change the fortunes of the team and their chances at winning a championship by signing value contracts and messaging to the rest of the players to do the same.  All for the price of maybe a million less a year than they could get on the open market.  They are still both going to have career earnings of over $80 million, so they have guaranteed the futures of generations of their family. 

 

It is also totally fair for them not to do that and take advantage of their UFA status to go where they want and for how much.  They have earned that.  If having $90 million instead of $80 million in earnings is worth more than spending the last half of your career on a winning team… that is a fine decision to make.

 

 

I think MacKinnon gets way too much credit for his contract.

 

At the time of him signing it, he was coming off a 52pt campaign in 72 games... that was after a season where he put up 38 points in 64 games. 

The fact he got $6.3M AAV after those 2 seasons was not a discount at all.  It was fair market value. 

 

He even only put up 53 points in 82 games after signing that big contract (a regression from the prior year).  It wasn't until year 2 of his new deal that he really got it together and broke out for 97 points. 

 

To give you an idea, Joe Pavelski had signed a new deal just 2 years prior for $6M AAV after putting up 79 points in 82 games.  So Mac was being paid more than Pavelski, obviously due to his potential. 

 

Anyways, a long rant, but just tired of people saying Mackinnon took a huge discount.  He didn't.  He took fair market value, but just happened to really explode in production a couple years later.

 

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8 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yep.

 

The thing is, Miller could quiet all the speculation and be beloved in the city with one statement.

 

”I love it here and as soon as I am allowed, I will sign a long term deal for $7 million a year until I retire as a Canuck.  We are going to do our best to bring a Cup to this city.”

 

He won’t do it, few players do.  A guy like Mackinnon is an outlier.  The rest want to maximize their earnings and also have ego/NHLPA implications wrapped up in their negotiating trying to make as much as they can.  Then they are stuck in the last years of their careers signing bargain deals to try to win a Cup before they retire.  


Miller and Horvat could entirely change the fortunes of the team and their chances at winning a championship by signing value contracts and messaging to the rest of the players to do the same.  All for the price of maybe a million less a year than they could get on the open market.  They are still both going to have career earnings of over $80 million, so they have guaranteed the futures of generations of their family. 

 

It is also totally fair for them not to do that and take advantage of their UFA status to go where they want and for how much.  They have earned that.  If having $90 million instead of $80 million in earnings is worth more than spending the last half of your career on a winning team… that is a fine decision to make.

 

 

Straight up!

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15 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yep.

 

The thing is, Miller could quiet all the speculation and be beloved in the city with one statement.

 

”I love it here and as soon as I am allowed, I will sign a long term deal for $7 million a year until I retire as a Canuck.  We are going to do our best to bring a Cup to this city.”

 

He won’t do it, few players do.  A guy like Mackinnon is an outlier.  The rest want to maximize their earnings and also have ego/NHLPA implications wrapped up in their negotiating trying to make as much as they can.  Then they are stuck in the last years of their careers signing bargain deals to try to win a Cup before they retire.  


Miller and Horvat could entirely change the fortunes of the team and their chances at winning a championship by signing value contracts and messaging to the rest of the players to do the same.  All for the price of maybe a million less a year than they could get on the open market.  They are still both going to have career earnings of over $80 million, so they have guaranteed the futures of generations of their family. 

 

It is also totally fair for them not to do that and take advantage of their UFA status to go where they want and for how much.  They have earned that.  If having $90 million instead of $80 million in earnings is worth more than spending the last half of your career on a winning team… that is a fine decision to make.

 

 

Btw, I totally agree with you.  Unfortunately, it is really rare for professional athletes to do it.

 

Miller @ $7.5M

Boeser @ $6.25M

Bo @ $6.5M

 

and we would be able to build a helluva team with the cap savings. 

 

I just ran the #s, and unloading Poolman alone and having our core sign contracts like the above, we'd be able to keep everyone and add a $6M to $6.5M top 4 RHD onto the roster.  Can you imagine what that would do to the makeup of our team?

 

Edited by HKSR
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8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think MacKinnon gets way too much credit for his contract.

 

At the time of him signing it, he was coming off a 52pt campaign in 72 games... that was after a season where he put up 38 points in 64 games. 

The fact he got $6.3M AAV after those 2 seasons was not a discount at all.  It was fair market value. 

 

He even only put up 53 points in 82 games after signing that big contract (a regression from the prior year).  It wasn't until year 2 of his new deal that he really got it together and broke out for 97 points. 

 

To give you an idea, Joe Pavelski had signed a new deal just 2 years prior for $6M AAV after putting up 79 points in 82 games.  So Mac was being paid more than Pavelski, obviously due to his potential. 

 

Anyways, a long rant, but just tired of people saying Mackinnon took a huge discount.  He didn't.  He took fair market value, but just happened to really explode in production a couple years later.

 

It doesn’t have to do with his contract at the time, it is what he has said since.

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/nathan-mackinnon-said-he-would-sign-another-team-friendly-contract/

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38 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yep.

 

The thing is, Miller could quiet all the speculation and be beloved in the city with one statement.

 

”I love it here and as soon as I am allowed, I will sign a long term deal for $7 million a year until I retire as a Canuck.  We are going to do our best to bring a Cup to this city.”

 

He won’t do it, few players do.  A guy like Mackinnon is an outlier.  The rest want to maximize their earnings and also have ego/NHLPA implications wrapped up in their negotiating trying to make as much as they can.  Then they are stuck in the last years of their careers signing bargain deals to try to win a Cup before they retire.  


Miller and Horvat could entirely change the fortunes of the team and their chances at winning a championship by signing value contracts and messaging to the rest of the players to do the same.  All for the price of maybe a million less a year than they could get on the open market.  They are still both going to have career earnings of over $80 million, so they have guaranteed the futures of generations of their family. 

 

It is also totally fair for them not to do that and take advantage of their UFA status to go where they want and for how much.  They have earned that.  If having $90 million instead of $80 million in earnings is worth more than spending the last half of your career on a winning team… that is a fine decision to make.

 

 

Who knows, this could happen. But I really doubt it unless the Canucks solve their D issues. We have something a lot of teams don't in Demko. Management really needs to push while he is on such a bargain contract. 

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40 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Btw, I totally agree with you.  Unfortunately, it is really rare for professional athletes to do it.

 

Miller @ $7.5M

Boeser @ $6.25M

Bo @ $6.5M

 

and we would be able to build a helluva team with the cap savings. 

 

I just ran the #s, and unloading Poolman alone and having our core sign contracts like the above, we'd be able to keep everyone and add a $6M to $6.5M top 4 RHD onto the roster.  Can you imagine what that would do to the makeup of our team?

 

Reminds me of the 2011 team when many of those players took discounts to attempt to win it all. 

 

The Sedins could have made so much more; and they had the chance to do it. But they took well below market value, and we almost won the entire thing back in 2011. &^@# those Bruins. 

 

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