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[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks


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13 hours ago, Timråfan said:

You lost me when you talk about trading Petey.

Petey is carving his place still in NHL and it might take a  few years before he reach a satisfieing level.

Petey might be a 100-120 p player soon and he you want to trade?

Miller hasn’t carved out his points as Petey has and Petey is much younger.

If Petey had been with the Lightnings he’d already be on 100p.

Think a bit why Miller could’t be that 100p guy with the Lightning…

I am not proposing that we need to trade him.  Its that if the roster is unbalanced and there are needs to address.  He is what another team would covet.  What about Petey for Barzal?  Would the Islanders do that?  The team lacks speed.  Zone entries, especially on powerplays, is a huge issue.  Barzal would solve this problem.  He is also more of a playmaking center while Petey is more of shoot first center.  This type of fair trade would improve the overall balance and ability of the team.  Yes, it hurts to give up such a promising player, but the team should be overall better after a trade like that.  They are close in age, both teams are underperforming, and maybe this would be a good shakeup for both to improve the overall rosters. 

 

This is what I mean by a hockey trade. Not a trade for futures, but a deal that adjusts the composition of the team to improve it overall.

Hockey games aren't won an lost because you give every player an overall rating them combine them together and divide them by the roster size to get an average rating that allows you to win if your average rating is higher than that of the opposition.  Teams have styles, strategies and tactics which are optimized by the right personnel.  The powerplay is a joke despite the offensive talent on the team because they simply can't enter the zone.  They don't have the bodies to retrieve pucks (dump it in), and they don't have the speed to just skate it in.  There is enough talent on the team offensively to have a top 10 powerplay except for the most crucial part that they can't even get in the zone.  Once setup they are quite effective.  That would easily make them a playoff team.  

 

The same can be said 5 on 5.  Their passing and movement is not fast enough on its own.  They don't have the bodies to dump and chase (although the Motte line does this well because of their overall speed).  Horvat and Miller have some ability to carry it from deep, but that doesn't seem to be the game plan.  They also aren't really at that level speed wise.

 

There are some really good players on this team.  Its just that they don't really work well together.  They need a playmaking 1st line center.  They need more speed, and they need a top pairing RHD and consistent partner to Quinn Hughes.  It's not impossible to rearrange the furniture to make that happen.  Trading someone like Miller for futures accomplish none of those things now.  Just leads to further frustration with this group, and probably leads to a decline in performance which will depress "asset values of the remaining roster."

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7 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

I am not proposing that we need to trade him.  Its that if the roster is unbalanced and there are needs to address.  He is what another team would covet.  What about Petey for Barzal?  Would the Islanders do that?  The team lacks speed.  Zone entries, especially on powerplays, is a huge issue.  Barzal would solve this problem.  He is also more of a playmaking center while Petey is more of shoot first center.  This type of fair trade would improve the overall balance and ability of the team.  Yes, it hurts to give up such a promising player, but the team should be overall better after a trade like that.  They are close in age, both teams are underperforming, and maybe this would be a good shakeup for both to improve the overall rosters. 

 

This is what I mean by a hockey trade. Not a trade for futures, but a deal that adjusts the composition of the team to improve it overall.

Hockey games aren't won an lost because you give every player an overall rating them combine them together and divide them by the roster size to get an average rating that allows you to win if your average rating is higher than that of the opposition.  Teams have styles, strategies and tactics which are optimized by the right personnel.  The powerplay is a joke despite the offensive talent on the team because they simply can't enter the zone.  They don't have the bodies to retrieve pucks (dump it in), and they don't have the speed to just skate it in.  There is enough talent on the team offensively to have a top 10 powerplay except for the most crucial part that they can't even get in the zone.  Once setup they are quite effective.  That would easily make them a playoff team.  

 

The same can be said 5 on 5.  Their passing and movement is not fast enough on its own.  They don't have the bodies to dump and chase (although the Motte line does this well because of their overall speed).  Horvat and Miller have some ability to carry it from deep, but that doesn't seem to be the game plan.  They also aren't really at that level speed wise.

 

There are some really good players on this team.  Its just that they don't really work well together.  They need a playmaking 1st line center.  They need more speed, and they need a top pairing RHD and consistent partner to Quinn Hughes.  It's not impossible to rearrange the furniture to make that happen.  Trading someone like Miller for futures accomplish none of those things now.  Just leads to further frustration with this group, and probably leads to a decline in performance which will depress "asset values of the remaining roster."

I think a few years forward, as Benning did til he got stressed.

You don’t want to trade Miller just because he’s the best player for now… But you’re interested in trading a player that can reach a level Miller is far away from, around 100-120p.

I know too little about Barzal but I know a bit about Petey and that is that he and Miller don’t fit.

So for me it’s easy. Trade Miller, get the best you can and get the Team with Petey and Horvat going.

And plan for the coming window. Not to squeese into playoffs without the bodies that makes it work.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

horvat and Bo should be traded, in return we need a young RHD, a very strong 2 way 3C and a young skilled winger.

Then we need to trade for some more bottom 6 toughness then can go up and down the line up.

 

To BOS:

Boesser

Hoglander

Dickinson

 

To VAN:

Carlo

Lysell

Debrusk

Foligno

 

To NJD:

Horvat

Pearson

 

To VAN:

Zacha 

Woods

Mercer

 

That actually solves everything

 

woods, foligno bring nil players with toughness

 

Carlo - young RHD

 

up and coming Fs- mercer, Lysell

 

Dice roll - DeBrusk

 

Podz Petey Garland

Zacha Miller Debrusk

Motte Mercer Woods

Foligno Lammiko Highmore

 

Hughes Carlo

OEL Myers

Rathbone Schenn

 

 

 

That solved nothing 

that made it worse 

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3 hours ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I'm not saying I'm for trading Horvat and I'm not saying I'm pro signing Miller long term.  I am not convinced that signing Miller long term is a good idea per the expectation that he will decline basically once his next contract starts.  Might not happen, but could easily happen.

 

All I'm saying is that based on what coaching and management has been saying, especially the hemming had hawing about Miller, makes me wonder if they may prefer to be trade Bo.  Their talk about Miller and re-signing him might just be posturing, but it might also be real.  If that's the case, then where does Bo fit in long term?  3rd line C?  Possible, but then does making that choice move the needle enough to improve the roster?  Does a Boeser trade fix most problems without needing to change up the depth at C if they keep all of Miller, Pettersson and Horvat?

 

Again, I'm not for trading Bo.  I think Bo has a skill set that could work well for the team as he moves through his prime and into his declining years.  At the same time however, some of the comments from Boudreau last night seem to possibly be pointed at Bo and I'm not getting the sense that it was only from last night's game.  These problems have been ongoing and if management is underwhelmed by Bo's performance and contributions to this roster, then I'm preparing myself for him to possibly me moved out.  He might still have strong value for precisely the reasons you mentioned - still in his prime years, may be less expensive to sign after this contract, etc.

 

So you think management want to show their cards? 
Why would they say anything remotely close to they want to trade Miller? That’s just moronic. They will never say anything like that. 

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13 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

I would for sure trade brock and bo, I would prefer to keep Miller but I think he will probably want out now.

The leadership group on this team sucks.

Losing Tanev really hurt this team, Toffoli fit in really well here and rumour was Miller and Pearson really liked the guy and he had more of a leadership role than one would have thought based on his brevity with the team. Demko is great but Markstrom also had a good voice in the room. Beagle, Sutter also had good leadership and PK qualities. 

This team needs an overhaul.

I would keep garland, Petey, Hughes, Podz, Demko, Miller, Lammiko, Motte, highmore and one of OEL or Myers.

The rest need to go.

Games like last night’s errrr effort inspire posts like this. I find myself thinking these same thoughts after watching the bed being shat, in such important games. 

Not to mention the SJ and Leaf games, which we were bloody lucky to win.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

And which player visibly quit on multiple plays last night?

Can't quit on a play when you're not even in on a play...

 

0 hits

0 shots

0 blocks

0 takeaways

0 points

1 giveaway

2 PIM

 

All in a must win divisional game by Mr. Captain.

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22 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Can't quit on a play when you're not even in on a play...

 

0 hits

0 shots

0 blocks

0 takeaways

0 points

1 giveaway

2 PIM

 

All in a must win divisional game by Mr. Captain.

Is the new thing in town to cheizah on the Captain?

 

Kool.

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49 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I think a few years forward, as Benning did til he got stressed.

You don’t want to trade Miller just because he’s the best player for now… But you’re interested in trading a player that can reach a level Miller is far away from, around 100-120p.

I know too little about Barzal but I know a bit about Petey and that is that he and Miller don’t fit.

So for me it’s easy. Trade Miller, get the best you can and get the Team with Petey and Horvat going.

And plan for the coming window. Not to squeese into playoffs without the bodies that makes it work.

 

 

I don't want to trade miller because a trade for miller is a trade for futures.  That have a low probability of panning out.  Its not that I prefer Miller that's not even really the case.  Its that the return for Petey could improve now the team while a return for Miller may or may not improve the team in the future (with more of an emphasis on may not).

 

24 year old Barzal is not being traded for a 28 year old Miller.  The possibilities are greater for a Petey trade.

 

Barzal won the fastest skater in the All-Star game skills competition competing against McDavid.  If you get a chance to watch him play, he is insane fast with very good hands.  Think of this way Petey is a very good shooter who plays really well in tight spaces.  Barzal is a flyer who takes it coast to coast.  He operates best in space.  He creates space with his wheels.

 

If you categorically wont consider and option like that then lets build around Petey and add some real heavy bodies that can cycle on the boards win pucks in the zone and allow Petey to use his shot and his handling in tight.  Petey and Boeser are redundant.  Miller to a certain extent is a similar player as well.  Heck Horvat and Pearson are shoot first hockey players as well.  There just isn't really a player who can carry the puck with speed.  On the other hand; Horvat doesn't want to bang, Boeser never did,  Petey is too light to do it.  There is not forecheck and cycle in their game that would create space for a shooter to find an open spot and wait for a puck to come.  

 

We essentially have a bunch of guys who can shoot the puck really well but never find themselves open because spacing is too tight defensively.  No one is creating space with their wheels or their bodies.  Just bunch of guys sitting around waiting for a one timer.  

 

You then need to trade Boeser, Horvat or whatever... for a Brady Tkachuk type.  Again, Miller is too old for someone to give you a under 25 power forward.  Here in lies the conundrum.  You can't trade Miller for what this team needs.  So why trade the guy when you can't improve the team?

 

This team doesn't use speed, passing or physicality to gain the zone (by this I mean they don't do any of those things well except for the Motte line).  It does posses a lot of great shooters.  I would argue that all of their shooting percentages would be significantly higher and they would generate more shots with a proper playmaker.   Give a shooter and get a playmaker (preferably with wheels) or a power forward.

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1 hour ago, Canucks Curse said:

horvat and Bo should be traded, in return we need a young RHD, a very strong 2 way 3C and a young skilled winger.

Then we need to trade for some more bottom 6 toughness then can go up and down the line up.

 

To BOS:

Boesser

Hoglander

Dickinson

 

To VAN:

Carlo

Lysell

Debrusk

Foligno

 

To NJD:

Horvat

Pearson

 

To VAN:

Zacha 

Woods

Mercer

 

That actually solves everything

 

woods, foligno bring nil players with toughness

 

Carlo - young RHD

 

up and coming Fs- mercer, Lysell

 

Dice roll - DeBrusk

 

Podz Petey Garland

Zacha Miller Debrusk

Motte Mercer Woods

Foligno Lammiko Highmore

 

Hughes Carlo

OEL Myers

Rathbone Schenn

 

 

 

You really ought to drop the Carlo for Boeser package idea.

 

Boston has a better RW in Pasta, they aren't weakening their D for a package centered around our cap conundrum. You don't get Carlo for Boeser from Boston, let alone Lysell. Hoglander has upside, but his trade value probably isn't as high as you might think it is.

 

And that's not me selling Boeser short, it just doesn't make sense for them. If anything Boston could use a top flight center to be Bergeron's successor, not another winger.

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10 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Is the new thing in town to cheizah on the Captain?

 

Kool.

No, the thing is to just not excuse poor performance simply because he is the captain.

 

SJS sharks game... another must win divisional game:

 

0 hits

0 blocks

0 points

1 shot

1 takeaway

35% on faceoffs

Most ice time amongst ALL forwards.

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4 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

I don't want to trade miller because a trade for miller is a trade for futures.  That have a low probability of panning out.  Its not that I prefer Miller that's not even really the case.  Its that the return for Petey could improve now the team while a return for Miller may or may not improve the team in the future (with more of an emphasis on may not).

 

24 year old Barzal is not being traded for a 28 year old Miller.  The possibilities are greater for a Petey trade.

 

Barzal won the fastest skater in the All-Star game skills competition competing against McDavid.  If you get a chance to watch him play, he is insane fast with very good hands.  Think of this way Petey is a very good shooter who plays really well in tight spaces.  Barzal is a flyer who takes it coast to coast.  He operates best in space.  He creates space with his wheels.

 

If you categorically wont consider and option like that then lets build around Petey and add some real heavy bodies that can cycle on the boards win pucks in the zone and allow Petey to use his shot and his handling in tight.  Petey and Boeser are redundant.  Miller to a certain extent is a similar player as well.  Heck Horvat and Pearson are shoot first hockey players as well.  There just isn't really a player who can carry the puck with speed.  On the other hand; Horvat doesn't want to bang, Boeser never did,  Petey is too light to do it.  There is not forecheck and cycle in their game that would create space for a shooter to find an open spot and wait for a puck to come.  

 

We essentially have a bunch of guys who can shoot the puck really well but never find themselves open because spacing is too tight defensively.  No one is creating space with their wheels or their bodies.  Just bunch of guys sitting around waiting for a one timer.  

 

You then need to trade Boeser, Horvat or whatever... for a Brady Tkachuk type.  Again, Miller is too old for someone to give you a under 25 power forward.  Here in lies the conundrum.  You can't trade Miller for what this team needs.  So why trade the guy when you can't improve the team?

 

This team doesn't use speed, passing or physicality to gain the zone (by this I mean they don't do any of those things well except for the Motte line).  It does posses a lot of great shooters.  I would argue that all of their shooting percentages would be significantly higher and they would generate more shots with a proper playmaker.   Give a shooter and get a playmaker (preferably with wheels) or a power forward.

If you think of the players in the trade. 
They don’t need to be as good as Miller. 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/courier-archive/news/elias-pettersson-was-even-faster-than-we-thought-at-the-fastest-skater-competition-3092495

 

Just let Petey grow and he shows the speed you want. 
I remember one of the first 3v3 I saw Petey in. 
He was flying out there.

So I say that Green suffocated him and Now BB needs to take away the leash

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As the season progress', it's more evident that this team is missing a lot.  And the best way to fill the gaps is to trade Miller.  It sucks because he's the type of player that win's cups but at the same time we need more than just Miller to get there.  Hate to say it but trading him seems like the best course of action.  

 

If the team was able to be competitive and not have to rely on Demko to win games then keeping Miller would make sense.  Right now the way I see it, Miller, Pearson, Dickenson, Hamonic, Chaisson all need to be trimmed from the roster.  That's about 14 million in cap space that will give us flexibility and allow for more options to retool the roster.

 

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9 minutes ago, Petey Castiglione said:

As the season progress', it's more evident that this team is missing a lot.  And the best way to fill the gaps is to trade Miller.  It sucks because he's the type of player that win's cups but at the same time we need more than just Miller to get there.  Hate to say it but trading him seems like the best course of action.  

 

If the team was able to be competitive and not have to rely on Demko to win games then keeping Miller would make sense.  Right now the way I see it, Miller, Pearson, Dickenson, Hamonic, Chaisson all need to be trimmed from the roster.  That's about 14 million in cap space that will give us flexibility and allow for more options to retool the roster.

 

I have no problem keeping Pearson and Hamonic.

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32 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

I don't want to trade miller because a trade for miller is a trade for futures.  That have a low probability of panning out.  Its not that I prefer Miller that's not even really the case.  Its that the return for Petey could improve now the team while a return for Miller may or may not improve the team in the future (with more of an emphasis on may not).

 

24 year old Barzal is not being traded for a 28 year old Miller.  The possibilities are greater for a Petey trade.

 

Barzal won the fastest skater in the All-Star game skills competition competing against McDavid.  If you get a chance to watch him play, he is insane fast with very good hands.  Think of this way Petey is a very good shooter who plays really well in tight spaces.  Barzal is a flyer who takes it coast to coast.  He operates best in space.  He creates space with his wheels.

 

If you categorically wont consider and option like that then lets build around Petey and add some real heavy bodies that can cycle on the boards win pucks in the zone and allow Petey to use his shot and his handling in tight.  Petey and Boeser are redundant.  Miller to a certain extent is a similar player as well.  Heck Horvat and Pearson are shoot first hockey players as well.  There just isn't really a player who can carry the puck with speed.  On the other hand; Horvat doesn't want to bang, Boeser never did,  Petey is too light to do it.  There is not forecheck and cycle in their game that would create space for a shooter to find an open spot and wait for a puck to come.  

 

We essentially have a bunch of guys who can shoot the puck really well but never find themselves open because spacing is too tight defensively.  No one is creating space with their wheels or their bodies.  Just bunch of guys sitting around waiting for a one timer.  

 

You then need to trade Boeser, Horvat or whatever... for a Brady Tkachuk type.  Again, Miller is too old for someone to give you a under 25 power forward.  Here in lies the conundrum.  You can't trade Miller for what this team needs.  So why trade the guy when you can't improve the team?

 

This team doesn't use speed, passing or physicality to gain the zone (by this I mean they don't do any of those things well except for the Motte line).  It does posses a lot of great shooters.  I would argue that all of their shooting percentages would be significantly higher and they would generate more shots with a proper playmaker.   Give a shooter and get a playmaker (preferably with wheels) or a power forward.

Trading 23 year old Pettersson to try and squeeze a few competitive seasons out of soon to be 29 year old Miller doesn't make sense. Keeping Pettersson, and allowing him to progress and be the player he's shown to be will improve the team. He's been gradually rebounding under Boudreau, he turned 23 in November, I think we're much better off retaining him as a building block. Keeping Pettersson is also much more of a sure thing that trading him, he's got a track record of being pretty close to ppg during his young career, he won the Calder with 66 points in 71 games and Miller wasn't even a Canuck at that point. Pettersson's much further along than Miller was at this point in his career and it's not even close.

 

Even if he's not a speed demon, pairing him with faster wingers alleviates that a bit. You can work around one player on a line not being as fast as the others. Not ever player on the team is going to have Mason Raymond caliber speed, that's not remotely realistic. But it's a lot easier to find speed than it is to find talent or talent with speed. 

 

And you're making a Miller trade for futures out to be some sort of absolute when it's really not. JR's on the record as to saying he wants to get younger if trades are made, that doesn't necessarily have to mean teenagers. Could a Miller trade bring back picks and prospects? Absolutely, and I'd want those as part of any package. But it's more likely than not that any Miller trade brings in an already drafted player or two who can feasibly step into the lineup next season than not imo. I dunno why some folks are convinced we'd have to trade Miller for strictly picks or "futures". At a minimum JR probably wants a 1st, a young player who can step into the roster this season or next, and a top prospect. At a minimum, and that's likely without our retaining cap.

 

Miller is valuable enough to force teams to give up players on their roster or in their pool that they'd rather not, and that's what it'd cost to acquire him. If we trade Miller it won't be for peanuts, teams are going to have to pay up. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Coconuts
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For reference, Pettersson has 8 goals and 14 points in his last 14 games. He's up to 32 points in 51 games now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him close the gap towards ppg over the remainder of the season regardless of whether trades happen or not. 

 

He's absolutely worth keeping. There are several fanbases out there who wish they had a young talent like him, we've been absolutely spoiled by what we've seen from our youth over the last 4-5 seasons and I think that's become "normal" to some folks when it absolutely isn't normal. 

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49 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

I don't want to trade miller because a trade for miller is a trade for futures.  That have a low probability of panning out.  Its not that I prefer Miller that's not even really the case.  Its that the return for Petey could improve now the team while a return for Miller may or may not improve the team in the future (with more of an emphasis on may not).

 

24 year old Barzal is not being traded for a 28 year old Miller.  The possibilities are greater for a Petey trade.

 

Barzal won the fastest skater in the All-Star game skills competition competing against McDavid.  If you get a chance to watch him play, he is insane fast with very good hands.  Think of this way Petey is a very good shooter who plays really well in tight spaces.  Barzal is a flyer who takes it coast to coast.  He operates best in space.  He creates space with his wheels.

 

If you categorically wont consider and option like that then lets build around Petey and add some real heavy bodies that can cycle on the boards win pucks in the zone and allow Petey to use his shot and his handling in tight.  Petey and Boeser are redundant.  Miller to a certain extent is a similar player as well.  Heck Horvat and Pearson are shoot first hockey players as well.  There just isn't really a player who can carry the puck with speed.  On the other hand; Horvat doesn't want to bang, Boeser never did,  Petey is too light to do it.  There is not forecheck and cycle in their game that would create space for a shooter to find an open spot and wait for a puck to come.  

 

We essentially have a bunch of guys who can shoot the puck really well but never find themselves open because spacing is too tight defensively.  No one is creating space with their wheels or their bodies.  Just bunch of guys sitting around waiting for a one timer.  

 

You then need to trade Boeser, Horvat or whatever... for a Brady Tkachuk type.  Again, Miller is too old for someone to give you a under 25 power forward.  Here in lies the conundrum.  You can't trade Miller for what this team needs.  So why trade the guy when you can't improve the team?

 

This team doesn't use speed, passing or physicality to gain the zone (by this I mean they don't do any of those things well except for the Motte line).  It does posses a lot of great shooters.  I would argue that all of their shooting percentages would be significantly higher and they would generate more shots with a proper playmaker.   Give a shooter and get a playmaker (preferably with wheels) or a power forward.

That's all fine and dandy but Miller isn't re-signing here anyway so we might as well get something for him as he's a top notch deadline pickup. It would be dumb not to.

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