At what point do the players give up on the franchise?

[24K PureCool]

36 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's actually one of the consequences of being so bad I don't think has gotten enough attention. We were supposedly going to be good this season, or at least competitive. 

 

Being as bad as we've been is going to scare off UFA's looking to go somewhere and win while they get paid. There will always be guys who are happy to get an NHL job, but this being this bad will hurt for a while going forward unless things begin to turn around. 

I find it funny how the team is like it doesn't want to mistake that will hurt them for a decade but at the same time continue down this trainwreck that had already hurt them for potentially longer than a decade 

 

I don't think this team's reputation is gonna be fixed until we finally land a generational player like McDavid or we have new ownership. We may be looking at decades of pain here given our draft lottery luck. 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

I find it funny how the team is like it doesn't want to mistake that will hurt them for a decade but at the same time continue down this trainwreck that had already hurt them for potentially longer than a decade 

 

I don't think this team's reputation is gonna be fixed until we finally land a generational player like McDavid or we have new ownership. We may be looking at decades of pain here given our draft lottery luck. 

Wiping out management and coaching would be a big start, but I'll be surprised if it happens. 

 

Gotta change the culture from the top down. 

[DeltaSwede]

If you aren't getting results, players aren't buying in, players look lethargic and disinterested, we have a coaching issue. Simple as that. 

 

It is time for a coaching change yesterday. I believe in the players and I don't buy into this locker room cancer bs. I think they are all just at their absolute lowest right now. 

 

Benning there is no question. Time is up as well. 

 

I really want to see these players performance under new coaching and with a new management before we start trading away our captain for example. 

[GB5]

No athlete at any level will ever give up. Even beer league players have enough of a competitive spirit that they want to win. 

 

The Canucks players look disorganized and confused. They are never ready for their opponents resulting in them fighting from behind. This is entirely a coaching issue. 

 

I would never accuse a highly competitive professional hockey player of quitting on his team. 

[tas]

2 hours ago, GB5 said:

No athlete at any level will ever give up. Even beer league players have enough of a competitive spirit that they want to win. 

 

The Canucks players look disorganized and confused. They are never ready for their opponents resulting in them fighting from behind. This is entirely a coaching issue. 

 

I would never accuse a highly competitive professional hockey player of quitting on his team. 

sorry, but that's a delusion.

[Bure_of_94]

Demko is the only one keeping them close, once he gives up, it’s going to get ugly.

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

You NEVER give up on the franchise.  The day you give up on the franchise, you shut off the TV and find a new hobby. 

 

Now, the owners in charge however, can change the strategy.      

 

In the Canucks' case, both Horvat and Miller should be traded immediately so that......

 

1) We can acquire elite prospects (Braden Schneider and Anton Lundell come to mind for me, but there are obviously many others out there).

 

2) We can tank this season and land Shane Wright, Conor Geekie, or whomever.

 

3) We can replace both Benning and Green. Julien/Budreau/Babcock replaces Green + maybe Mike Gillis is rehired as GM.

 

4) On July 1st 2022, UFA's will look at our team and see it as a team with an extremely bright future built on a new foundation. 

 

 

ps - If any player gives up on the franchise, you ship him or "her" out immediately.

The  thing that really needs to happen first, is a President needs to be hired - and JB is banned from trading anyone in the meantime.    JB .. how many times has he said "i'm in daily"  "i'm in regular " "im in constant communication with the owners".    The owners are amazing business people, but they are not hockey people.   They are fans.   It's both wasting JB (or the next GMs) time, and bypassing a critical link in the org board that is there for a reason.    This isn't the 90's where the owners really couldn't afford it - they for sure can.   Easily could of had an internal cap and paid for the best of the best but they didn't did they?   Beagle and AR lol...right there is enough for a President, and elite coaching staff.   

 

Change management requires a start.   Right now the best start is hiring a guy like Lou...too bad he's not available.   Or Burke.   That can then proceed and evaluate the entire thing, find a GM and hire him, and let that GM hire the coach, who hires his staff etc.   That's the model and it works.    I'm stoked we have owners with deep pockets, before we didn't.   It means total stability on that front and the team should never be re-located.   And for that i thank the Aqua's.    However our GM should not be talking to the owners unless it's

about a buyout or something of the sort. 

And even then the President could approach them on the idea.   That's about it.  

 

JB final card(s) is a coaching change and or trades.   Personally i'd rather we just accept this year for what it is,  and do it one step at a time.   Rapid change is very difficult for any organization, two seasons in a row that's what TG and his staff have had to deal with.   Most of the D, new goalies, and bottom/middle six.  It rarely just settles in all at once and they know that too.   Why we haven't seen a change (yet).    Fans aren't nearly as patient though.    Except the chanting will increase ... the only thing that will stop that is winning.  

 

As a fan i'm ready for a complete change but want it done by properly.   Start with a President at the very very least and the owners should also step back.   Let them do their jobs.  With zero interference.   You can bet if they really talk daily that's a lot of human capital they've invested in each other - JB doesn't have "naughty pictures" on them, he's developed a relationship which isn't that easy to sever.   Same with Green and JB.    If fans know that our PK is a problem what do you think they know?   A lot more.   There are 1000's of variables in play.   Change for the sake of change, is what the team needs right now though.   

 

I'd not be happy if we go back to Gillis.   So no thanks.   Babcock, i'd much prefer we bring back Torts if he's willing.   His work in CLB was excellent.   Know we could risk some of our younger players as he has his favourites, but at this point i actually think that's a good thing.   Babcock likely wouldn't come here.   Teams not good enough.   Maybe Torts too but having Shaw might be enough who knows. 

 

On Shaw.   Think that's the most likely move.   I'd expect a bump and some more winning for awhile at least but that's about it.    At this point i think the team itself needs to have a closed door meeting.   Hash it out as a group.   That can help sometimes.   But it starts at the top, and right now we don't even have a top.   Just a blurred line between the owners (acting President really) and JB. 

[IBatch]

As for the OP.   I don't want any player on our team that "gives up" on the franchise.   Losing sucks.   But that's the game and the only way to win is working as a team.   TG is likely gone - but in his defense he's had to work with very different groups each and every season.

 

This team is lacking synergy at the moment.   Only QHs and Myers were here a couple seasons ago on D.   That's a complete overhaul.    Our bottom six?  Well guess what (and i warned everyone then) we actually miss Beagle/AR and even LE as far as our PK goes.  Wow imagine that, any chump can't kill penalties!    This is more of a management issue - or at least equally both because TG signed off on waiving JG and trading OJ before he was waived.    OJ/Myers was our "safest" pairing in limited minutes last season - and that was OJ bread and butter, Vlasic was his comp going into the draft - just the best defensive defenseman for a decade or so.   If a contender is willing to trade knowing he's getting waived and could get him for free, that means other teams see value in him.   

 

Pisses me off as a fan because now guess what?   We have basically nothing special coming up, and depth that's just not acceptable.  

 

I don't care about silly things like EP is sulking bedside the negotiations didn't go as he wanted, or his bff was traded years ago lol.   It's pretty obvious with the eye test who is playing to their ability and who is not.   Our PK is a disaster.   Cost us a game last night even though we were .75%.    I don't like the teams starts.   That's on the players too.   What is TG saying to them that makes them hate him so much?   Lol.   JB better fire TG very soon, or he will absolutely not make it through the season.   And even then i don't think he should.      

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

The  thing that really needs to happen first, is a President needs to be hired - and JB is banned from trading anyone in the meantime.    JB .. how many times has he said "i'm in daily"  "i'm in regular " "im in constant communication with the owners".    The owners are amazing business people, but they are not hockey people.   They are fans.   It's both wasting JB (or the next GMs) time, and bypassing a critical link in the org board that is there for a reason.    This isn't the 90's where the owners really couldn't afford it - they for sure can.   Easily could of had an internal cap and paid for the best of the best but they didn't did they?   Beagle and AR lol...right there is enough for a President, and elite coaching staff.   

 

Change management requires a start.   Right now the best start is hiring a guy like Lou...too bad he's not available.   Or Burke.   That can then proceed and evaluate the entire thing, find a GM and hire him, and let that GM hire the coach, who hires his staff etc.   That's the model and it works.    I'm stoked we have owners with deep pockets, before we didn't.   It means total stability on that front and the team should never be re-located.   And for that i thank the Aqua's.    However our GM should not be talking to the owners unless it's

about a buyout or something of the sort. 

And even then the President could approach them on the idea.   That's about it.  

 

JB final card(s) is a coaching change and or trades.   Personally i'd rather we just accept this year for what it is,  and do it one step at a time.   Rapid change is very difficult for any organization, two seasons in a row that's what TG and his staff have had to deal with.   Most of the D, new goalies, and bottom/middle six.  It rarely just settles in all at once and they know that too.   Why we haven't seen a change (yet).    Fans aren't nearly as patient though.    Except the chanting will increase ... the only thing that will stop that is winning.  

 

As a fan i'm ready for a complete change but want it done by properly.   Start with a President at the very very least and the owners should also step back.   Let them do their jobs.  With zero interference.   You can bet if they really talk daily that's a lot of human capital they've invested in each other - JB doesn't have "naughty pictures" on them, he's developed a relationship which isn't that easy to sever.   Same with Green and JB.    If fans know that our PK is a problem what do you think they know?   A lot more.   There are 1000's of variables in play.   Change for the sake of change, is what the team needs right now though.   

 

I'd not be happy if we go back to Gillis.   So no thanks.   Babcock, i'd much prefer we bring back Torts if he's willing.   His work in CLB was excellent.   Know we could risk some of our younger players as he has his favourites, but at this point i actually think that's a good thing.   Babcock likely wouldn't come here.   Teams not good enough.   Maybe Torts too but having Shaw might be enough who knows. 

 

On Shaw.   Think that's the most likely move.   I'd expect a bump and some more winning for awhile at least but that's about it.    At this point i think the team itself needs to have a closed door meeting.   Hash it out as a group.   That can help sometimes.   But it starts at the top, and right now we don't even have a top.   Just a blurred line between the owners (acting President really) and JB. 

Given the bad reputation that our ownership has for being meddling, do you think anyone qualified would be willing to be President at this point?  Trevor Linden is very well respected around the league and we all know the falling out that he had.

 

At this point, the Aqua’s might have no choice but to promote the twins and co-Presidents in a PR related move.  Maybe the twins at the helm could goax Gillis to come back as GM?  (provided that there is an understanding the ownership stays out of the decision making process).  
 

From a PR standpoint, the combination of the twins and Gillis might keep the fans’ spirits up since those men represent our most successful period in franchise history.

[RU SERIOUS]

I BELIEVE WE HAVE NOW REACHED THAT POINT !

[Junkyard Dog]

When they ask for a trade or don't plan on re-signing.

[Bure_of_94]

35 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

When they ask for a trade or don't plan on re-signing.

One has to wonder, how soon until guys start asking to get traded out. 

[Coconuts]

58 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

One has to wonder, how soon until guys start asking to get traded out. 

Yup, the longer this goes on the more damage we're going to see. 

[*Buzzsaw*]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:01 PM, Patel Bure said:

You NEVER give up on the franchise.  The day you give up on the franchise, you shut off the TV and find a new hobby. 

 

Now, the owners in charge however, can change the strategy.      

 

In the Canucks' case, both Horvat and Miller should be traded immediately so that......

 

1) We can acquire elite prospects (Braden Schneider and Anton Lundell come to mind for me, but there are obviously many others out there).

 

2) We can tank this season and land Shane Wright, Conor Geekie, or whomever.

 

3) We can replace both Benning and Green. Julien/Budreau/Babcock replaces Green + maybe Mike Gillis is rehired as GM.

 

4) On July 1st 2022, UFA's will look at our team and see it as a team with an extremely bright future built on a new foundation. 

 

 

ps - If any player gives up on the franchise, you ship him or "her" out immediately.

One of the stupider posts I have read in a long time.

 

You don't trade your best players... especially if they are in their prime.

 

You are dreaming in technicolour if you think a bunch of draft picks guarantee you some superstar will be acquired.

 

The chances of getting the #1 pick is a cr*pshoot... nothing is guaranteed.

 

This team has lots of talent, what it needs is a good coach and a GM who will focus on getting some quality D to fill the gaps in the current set of blueliners.

 

But the key change needed is a new coach... these players are not performing to their potential.

[N4ZZY]

On 11/25/2021 at 12:25 AM, Coconuts said:

Wiping out management and coaching would be a big start, but I'll be surprised if it happens. 

 

Gotta change the culture from the top down. 

I agree. Gotta get rid of Benning and his team. To me, it feels like the players have lost trust in management. 

 

Green probably needs to go, just because his voice might have been stale by this point. The players just need a new voice. He just can’t be there anymore. He’ll probably be a great coach somewhere else. But not here right now. 

 

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, N4ZZY said:

I agree. Gotta get rid of Benning and his team. To me, it feels like the players have lost trust in management. 

 

Green probably needs to go, just because his voice might have been stale by this point. The players just need a new voice. He just can’t be there anymore. He’ll probably be a great coach somewhere else. But not here right now. 

 

Gonna be honest, I don't even care if he goes on to be a great coach elsewhere. I don't hate the guy, I wish things had gone differently. But they haven't, and it's not working. 

 

Coaches have a shelf life, they all know that coming in. 

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Gonna be honest, I don't even care if he goes on to be a great coach elsewhere. I don't hate the guy, I wish things had gone differently. But they haven't, and it's not working. 

 

Coaches have a shelf life, they all know that coming in. 

Yeah. I know the coaches know that they all have a shelf life. Green’s had his run here. 

 

[CanadianRugby]

2014

[Timråfan]

On 11/25/2021 at 3:01 AM, Patel Bure said:

In the Canucks' case, both Horvat and Miller should be traded immediately so that......

 

Where do this ”trade Horvat” come from?

we need quality centers and Horvat did miracles with Loui and Pearson and neither of those wingers has any reputation to talk about.

Put Miller with those two and he would complain day in and day out til traded. 
 

[Josepho]

Horvat and Miller are extremely unlikely to stay here and we basically have to trade them before the deadline to maximize their value.