[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 24, 2021

[buddhahoodlum]

5 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Give them to employees that are going to get fired.

Or that you want to quit.

[N4ZZY]

14 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

Right now following this team is like watching a plane crash in ultra slow motion. 

 

We all know what needs to be done and yet silence from Aqua. This team ain't gonna magically wake up. Everyone is waiting for something to happen, delaying it further is just gonna have the cloud hanging over this team get more moisture. 

Apparently there's a clash between Francesco and Roberto. 

 

Good. I hope Roberto takes over. 

 

Because it's apparent that Francesco has no &^@#ing clue how to run this prized possession that is the Canucks. 

 

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

At some point you gotta think even Green can't be this bad,  bad maybe, but not this bad. 

Is there more than meets the eye? Like what is really wrong?

Do players as well as staff need to go? They shouldn't be so bad. The team culture is messed right now so much that it ruins good players. Why did holtby and Schmidt want to leave so bad? 

It can't all be on Green, or Benning for that matter. This team is not a team, and isn't this bad on paper. 

 

Holtby didn’t wanna leave. We were hoping that Seattle would take him and bought him out when they didn’t to save cap.

 

Schmidt seems like he was an acquired personality that might not have fit in here. He wants to be on a “fun” team like Vegas. Our guys are probably too serious and boring for him. He didn’t choose to come here after all.

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by DeNiro

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Apparently there's a clash between Francesco and Roberto. 

 

Good. I hope Roberto takes over. 

 

Because it's apparent that Francesco has no &^@#ing clue how to run this prized possession that is the Canucks. 

 

If that’s true hopefully the rift is that the brothers wanna sell the team and Frankie doesn’t.

 

Best thing that could happen to this team is new ownership.

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

At some point you gotta think even Green can't be this bad,  bad maybe, but not this bad. 

Is there more than meets the eye? Like what is really wrong?

Do players as well as staff need to go? They shouldn't be so bad. The team culture is messed right now so much that it ruins good players. Why did holtby and Schmidt want to leave so bad? 

It can't all be on Green, or Benning for that matter. This team is not a team, and isn't this bad on paper. 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head

This team isnt a team

They dont play for each other

Case in point is a couple games ago when Hughes got nailed and then skated the full length of the ice to cross check the guy that hit him.

No other team would let their undersized young star D-man get nailed and do nothign about it.

Elias is a great hockey player but he also loves the limelight, celebrities and social media. He's the type to leave the rink as soon as game is done and go hang out with his social circle rather then bond with a teammate.

We have a bunch of great individual players but they aren't a team.

 

In hindsight, I blame the staff and the leaders of this team like Horvat for being too relaxed about everything.

Overtime, they let apathy creep in and now we have ourselves a messy problem.

Have we even had a closed door players meeting yet? Do they even care at this point?

 

We've already let Green stay on way too long and it's prbably caused even more damage to the psyche and the team unity.

Had we changed coaches 10 games ago, our PP, PK and overall systems may have improved leading to more wins and the team getting  re-engaged. They may not be best buddies off the ice but focusing on winning could at least unite them.

 

What we have ourselves now is a bigger problem.  Even if we replace a coach for a genius, they now have the uphill battle of makign the players care again.

A lot of damage has already been done.  Best case scenario is a coaching change is made and the improved systems sparks everyone but it's looking more and more like a coachign change may not necessarily fix all the problems and that I blame on JB and Aquaman.

 

 

[N4ZZY]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If that’s true hopefully the rift is that the brothers wanna sell the team and Frankie doesn’t.

 

Best thing that could happen to this team is new ownership.

I’d qualify this and say new local ownership. I don’t want someone out of the province and who’s not committed to keeping the team in Vancouver at all costs. That’s one thing that we’ve had with the Aquilini’s. They’ll keep this team here forever, because they’re proud Vancouverites. But their vision, particularly Francesco, is horrible. 

 

I don’t think it’s about selling or keeping the team. I think their disagreement has more to do with rebuilding the right away, or continue to take shortcuts and remain “competitive”

 

[buddhahoodlum]

3 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Replace “Today” with “October 9, 1970”.

Dear Vancouver Canucks, it's not me. It's you.

[Coconuts]

28 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

The group is the core, it comes down to what you want to do with them. And if we're going that route then we are taking major surgery.

 

It's a quarter of the way through the season, the team would have to overachieve to make the playoffs but there's still 3/4 left. After the moves made & expectations coming in, are they (ownership/management) really going to accept this and go down without a fight?

 

If so it might really lead to changes, I think everyone in the organization & fanbase thought this team could be better, but if they accept that we aren't then everything is up in the air.

 

 

 

I remember thinking at the time that comment needlessly added pressure on him, who would've guessed he would have such a bad year.

 

I think he's trying really hard but he just doesn't have the confidence that's apart of what made him so good.

 

Really sucks how his season has gone, contract negotiation included.

This is the core, but the longer this goes on the more likely we might see guys asking to be moved out. Can you imagine if we retain Green the whole season? If this is all we see? It's possible. 

 

I do think major surgery is unlikely, but I wouldn't be surprised to see roster moves. Playoffs seem unrealistic at this point, albeit not impossible.

[Smashian Kassian]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

This is the core, but the longer this goes on the more likely we might see guys asking to be moved out. Can you imagine if we retain Green the whole season? If this is all we see? It's possible. 

 

I do think major surgery is unlikely, but I wouldn't be surprised to see roster moves. Playoffs seem unrealistic at this point, albeit not impossible.

 

If they want to take a stab at making it then they are going to have to get rid of Green - this coming from someone who has been one of his last supporters. I think Green is a good coach, but this team needs a shakeup if there is any hope. 

 

It just comes down to whether they believe in this core or not, then there is also trade requests as you say which could make the decision for them

 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Smashian Kassian

[CanucksJay]

55 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Idk why but I go back in the summer to how Petey said he likes Vancouver but wants to be on a winning team.

At the time I understood his POV but given the situation now it suddenly really irks me. He's supposed to the one of the main guys to make that happen. He shouldn't be saying something like that like an entited brat and then perform the way he's performed.

If anything, he should've stepped it up to truly be one of the top players in the league that deserves that sort of winning environment.

 

Did this guy over-estimate himself and think it would be a free ride after that big payday he wanted?

He just expects to be on a winning team even when he takes his foot off the pedal? I have no idea how exactly he spent his offseason but I'm sick of his injury excuses.

He clearly didn't try enough, maybe even care enough to improve his game and it shows. 

His play has been baffling this season.

Maybe its hockey gods giving him some karma.

 

I just dont understand how a young player who had great hockey IQ and skill can go south this fast.

[Dazzle]

18 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If that’s true hopefully the rift is that the brothers wanna sell the team and Frankie doesn’t.

 

Best thing that could happen to this team is new ownership.

Be careful about that wish.

[eeeeergh]

27 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

At some point you gotta think even Green can't be this bad,  bad maybe, but not this bad. 

Is there more than meets the eye? Like what is really wrong?

Do players as well as staff need to go? They shouldn't be so bad. The team culture is messed right now so much that it ruins good players. Why did holtby and Schmidt want to leave so bad? 

It can't all be on Green, or Benning for that matter. This team is not a team, and isn't this bad on paper. 

 

1. We have a star player who struggles to keep his balance when skating, and made no noticeable strength, size, or skating improvements during his offseason.. and is on pace for less than 20 goals while getting paid 7.5m/year.

2. We have a coach that has never had success at any level he's coached at (he performed poorly at the AHL level, and poorly at the NHL level). He's made 3 playoff appearances in 9 seasons he's coached. He's presided over the leagues worst PK and one of the worst powerplays, with systems that clearly dont work. He also blends lines on the fly in games, which suggests he's just at the point where he has to make it up as he goes, because he's clueless as to how to improve his team any further. 

3. While we brought in more offensively talented players, they won't score if they have been given no direction or strategy on zone entries or running a successful powerplay. At the same time, to bring them in, we shipped some of our best defensive players (Beagle and Edler were key to our penalty kill). 

 

4. Our defense core has a lot of offensive talent but because of garbage systems, struggle to exit their own end, and frequently give up high danger scoring chances. Losing Tanev and then Edler makes us far weaker defensively too. 


Until Green is gone, any roster changes are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 

[N4ZZY]

9 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think you hit the nail on the head

This team isnt a team

They dont play for each other

Case in point is a couple games ago when Hughes got nailed and then skated the full length of the ice to cross check the guy that hit him.

No other team would let their undersized young star D-man get nailed and do nothign about it.

Elias is a great hockey player but he also loves the limelight, celebrities and social media. He's the type to leave the rink as soon as game is done and go hang out with his social circle rather then bond with a teammate.

We have a bunch of great individual players but they aren't a team.

 

In hindsight, I blame the staff and the leaders of this team like Horvat for being too relaxed about everything.

Overtime, they let apathy creep in and now we have ourselves a messy problem.

Have we even had a closed door players meeting yet? Do they even care at this point?

 

We've already let Green stay on way too long and it's prbably caused even more damage to the psyche and the team unity.

Had we changed coaches 10 games ago, our PP, PK and overall systems may have improved leading to more wins and the team getting  re-engaged. They may not be best buddies off the ice but focusing on winning could at least unite them.

 

What we have ourselves now is a bigger problem.  Even if we replace a coach for a genius, they now have the uphill battle of makign the players care again.

A lot of damage has already been done.  Best case scenario is a coaching change is made and the improved systems sparks everyone but it's looking more and more like a coachign change may not necessarily fix all the problems and that I blame on JB and Aquaman.

 

 

I think you have some really good points. 

 

I also agree that it’s deeper than just the collection of players. Great players, but they don’t seem to care for one another or play for each other. They can say all they want, but at the end of the day, their actions on the ice says more than what comes out of their mouths. If they cared for one another, they’d stand up for each other. They don’t. Horvat didn’t fight when Podkolzin was hit, even if it was a clean hit. Nobody, like you say, did anything to fight the player that took out Hughes - he had to handle it himself. Like what kind of message is being sent to the room when these things happen all over the ice? 

 

I think the damage has been done like you’ve said. Unfortunately, it’ll mean 1. Green gets canned, 2. Some of the core players will be moved on for prospects, and other players of similar age. There’s no patience now with the fan base for another rebuild, and it’s not because we cannot stomach it. It’s because they botched the first one 8 years ago. This management team doesn’t get to do another rebuild because they screwed up the first one. 

 

 

[VanCan2023]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

This is the core, but the longer this goes on the more likely we might see guys asking to be moved out. Can you imagine if we retain Green the whole season? If this is all we see? It's possible. 

 

I do think major surgery is unlikely, but I wouldn't be surprised to see roster moves. Playoffs seem unrealistic at this point, albeit not impossible.

This team playing the way they should be a +600 team at a minimum. Which over 60 games will be a playoff spot. 

However I don't see it this year. 

They will replace the coach after Christmas, then spend the remaining games learning his system and all gaining trust. 

They just better not win 17 of there last 20 and get themselves 3 points out, and loose our typical slightly below 10th over all, that the NHL makes sure we only get. 

[coolboarder]

Here is my opinion, the longer Green stays, it will become difficult for him to find a new head coach job in the NHL.  It's better for the sake of his future and new voice on this team for them to start playing better.  I am not sure what they would get out from keeping Green, except for money.  If it's not the issue of money but they still think that Green is a good coach, has to be straight from the owner himself.   Last summer was the best opportunity for a shake-up but this time, it's on the ownership, not Benning.   Remember, Torts was fired when he started to butt head with the make-up on the roster and called it stale, the owner didn't like that so instead, he let both of them go, Gillis and Torts.   I don't know the whole truth but this is my speculation.  IT is no wonder that Benning and Green still have the job even though I loved what Benning did this past summer with roster moves.  So all I would like is to have a new coach and see what happens for rest of the season and if they did much better with better 2nd half record with roster being intact then it's more likely coaching.  

[EmilyM]

18 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I’d qualify this and say new local ownership. I don’t want someone out of the province and who’s not committed to keeping the team in Vancouver at all costs. That’s one thing that we’ve had with the Aquilini’s. They’ll keep this team here forever, because they’re proud Vancouverites. But their vision, particularly Francesco, is horrible. 

 

I don’t think it’s about selling or keeping the team. I think their disagreement has more to do with rebuilding the right away, or continue to take shortcuts and remain “competitive”

 

Say what you will about Bettman but he has never been a fan of relocating teams. A new owner wouldn’t get the approval to move a team out of a market like Vancouver.

[N4ZZY]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

His play has been baffling this season.

Maybe its hockey gods giving him some karma.

 

I just dont understand how a young player who had great hockey IQ and skill can go south this fast.

Well, I also hated his comments this off-season. But if he thought that things would be easy for him moving forward, then this season is some major humble pie. He’s under contract. He’s Canucks property until he’s not. 

 

But you’re right. He’s got to put in the work. If he wants to be a part of a winning team, maybe he’s got to see himself as part of the solution and not demand that he be “given” a winning team. Pay your dues. Whatever happened to hard work, and being a part of a team, and creating something special? Has that breed of players just gone with this generation? 

 

I’m honestly asking. I hope Petey gets time to reflect on his own attitude, because I still &^@#ing love him as a player (well, not with the current way he’s been playing). But if he has entitlement issues, then, well, might be best to part ways while his value is still high (if he can get back to his old ways). 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

2 minutes ago, EmilyM said:

Say what you will about Bettman but he has never been a fan of relocating teams. A new owner wouldn’t get the approval to move a team out of a market like Vancouver.

Well, let’s hope so. But at the end of the day, it’s always going to be about the money. 

 

[N4ZZY]

4 minutes ago, AC30 said:

At the next home game fans be like....

Would not be surprised at all. 

 

[coolboarder]

2 minutes ago, EmilyM said:

Say what you will about Bettman but he has never been a fan of relocating teams. A new owner wouldn’t get the approval to move a team out of a market like Vancouver.

He was one who relocated a few teams, Winnipeg and Quebec then ultimately Atlanta relocated back to Winnipeg but damage has been done to Canadian markets for a long time, no cup in almost 30 years and this is his legacy.   Keeping in mind, Canucks was the best team and they fixed the Cup final with the refereeing and suspension and allowed Bruins to get away with so many dirty plays.  Th is is His legacy on how the treatment toward the Canadian teams in general, not just the Canucks.