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Anyone but Jim Rutherford.

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MaxVerstappen33

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3 minutes ago, Krinjer33 said:

This is a weak argument..

Give the man some credit, he has 3 cups. That’s 3 more than any of us have.

Opportunities arise out of the situations that unfold before us. 
Sure he’s made some questionable moves, but so has every GM in the league.

Sometimes it’s the moves that you don’t make that can get you to the top. 
 

Going back into the past and dealing in ‘IFs’ is a dangerous way of thinking.

IF you change one aspect of the past you have to change everything.

IF the Oilers had their starting goalie in the finals……

IF someone else had inherited that Penguins team…..

IF we drafted Jagr

IF we didn’t hit the post in 94

IF Luc Bourdon hadn’t passed on

IF we didn’t have so many injuries in 2011

IF Luongo’s contract didn’t suck

see where I’m going here?

 

Maybe IF some of these situations unfolded then maybe we wouldn’t be such a bitter fan base.

 

 

 


 

Thank you.  Literally every candidate for a President of hockey ops position will have made some mistakes.  Not all of them will have Rutherford's resume.

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1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Thank you.  Literally every candidate for a President of hockey ops position will have made some mistakes.  Not all of them will have Rutherford's resume.

Exactly, making mistakes is how we learn.

The OPs argument is. 
Rutherford was bad before he was good so he must still be bad.

 

 

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4 hours ago, timberz21 said:

  

That's a contradictory comment since, in your own article you argue that the Pens replace the smart Shero for Dumb-dumb Rutherford.  Yet in 10 years with Malkin and Crosby Shero only produced 1 cup while Rutherford produce 2 rings in 3/4 years.

 

So that's an overly exaggerated comment that anyone could win with Malkin and Crosby.

I am just saying, most of this forum would have thought he was a joke in 2014. Like everyone did on HF in 2014.

 

Anyway.... I found the thread

 

Here is the HF thread on Jim Rutherfords hiring

 

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jim-rutherford-to-pittsburgh-penguins.1685071/

 

 

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Notable post.
It's such a different situation it's hard to say. He was a losing gm for almost 20 years. Some of those years undoubtedly get passes because he didn't have a ton of money and inherited a bad team. Still, the record spoke for itself. What is he good at? Bargain bin shopping. Finding guys in the discard pile who are still useful. This will likely be even better in Pitts as you're likely to have more guys willing to play there for less than here. IMO he was always good at finding solid defenseman over the years, though some will say the last few years contradict that. Getting sekera to me says he still has an eye for it. As a goalie he also had a decent eye for goalies, though he struggled at times to find a good backup. He was all over giguere and ward, and both turned out solid though people around here struggle with ward now.

He's never afraid to make ridiculously large trades for pieces he feels he needs. Glen Wesley for three firsts. Sergei fedorov to a ridiculous offer sheet. Pronger for shanny. Shanny for primeau/Coffey/first. The jstaal trade was a pretty big one.

What did he suck at? Maintaining any success he found. We went from being in the cup twice to being awful the very next year. Way too much faith in the core he put together. He hitched our horses to staal and ward and there wasn't going to be any changes essentially ever, regardless of outcome. He seriously doesn't care about first rounders. If you can find quotes during his whaler days he literally says it. He at least used to think the second round was just as good as the first. He doesn't like to draft defenseman because they take too long to develop so he trades them for what he needs now. He does that to a lot of young talent. He rushed whatever young talent we had and gave up on some of them too quick. Made a few band aid moves with a quick trigger finger I'm sure he regrets.

He might be good for the pens right now. Why? Because he can be a very good win right now gm. With your stars in their primes and maybe just past their most productive years you need to get another cup or two while they're still at a high level. He'll trade every young piece you've got to win a cup right now, especially if he's being pushed to do so. If that's worth it to you, you won't mind him I bet. If you're a "hockey's future" kind of guy, you may want to go run and hide for a few years.
 
 
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Drafting

 

Like Shero, Rutherford's draft record simply hasn't been very good. The rule of thumb is that you can't tell the quality of a draft until five years have passed, so let's go way back. In the 10 drafts starting in 2009 and working backward, Rutherford picked 77 players, and just eight have gone on to play at least 200 NHL games. Half of them were taken in the top 11 picks, where it's harder to "miss." In general, later rounds haven't been kind to the Hurricanes; 0nly Niclas Wallin and Jamie McBain got to the 200 mark after being selected outside the first round. U.S. Olympian Justin Faulk will clear that hurdle early next season. That's three out of 68 (4.4 percent) in a 10-year period, and that's awful; The average for late-round picks to play at least 200 NHL games is usually something like 12 percent, depending on position.

 

Carolina's last 10 #1 picks:

2003: #2
2004: #4
2005: #3
2007: #11
2008: #14
2009: #27
2010: #7
2011: #12
2012: #8
2013: #5

Canes have had 3 premium picks in a row and a string of picks in the top 3rd of the draft. Granted, not every draft is the same in terms of quality, but the Canes have only 3 of those picks on their fulltime roster (4 if Murphy makes it). Getting basically nothing (as of today) out of the Ladd and JJ and Boychuk picks is what really hurts IMO.

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The thread and some responses. I don't even think the response would be this heavy if it was Dave Nonis being hired.  https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jim-rutherford-to-pittsburgh-penguins.1685071/page-6

 

-What in the actual ****?Someone I know who is very sarcastic and hard to take seriously told me about this before the end of the day and I was all yeah whatever *********.Turns out he wasn't kidding :amazed:

 

-I'm not going to lie; I think this is hilarious.

 

 
-Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. oh god this is going to be a hilarious 4-5 years. Can't wait to get Pouliot and a 3rd just for taking Dupuis's contract off their hands.
 
-LOL.. why would Pittsburgh do this? Makes no sense. Hopefully JRs first order of business will be to trade Staal/Staal for Crosby/Malkin.
 
-Enjoy it, Pittsburgh.
 
-A good friend of mine is JR's neighbor, and they played golf together (and Francis too) a few weeks ago. He said JR was really excited about being team President and "doing nothing." So I suspect this opportunity kind of came out of nowhere for him.
 
-did this really just happen? This is a blessing in disguise. We no longer have this guy able to call any shots what so ever. if I were a Pens fan I would be very worried right now... Good riddance.
 
-I have no doubts the Penguins will be successful. I just don't think JR will have a lot to do with it. Unless he trades Crosby/Malkin, the Penguins are going to be successful regardless of any other moves JR makes. It's a high risk, high reward scenario for Rutherford. Right now, that team is just a few steps from winning the Cup. If he takes those few steps forward, he gets his name on the Cup again without doing much work at all. But, if he makes the wrong moves and takes a few steps back, his reputation as a GM will take a serious hit. He wasn't getting a lot of attention for his lack of success here in Carolina, but if he manages to screw up that Penguins team, you better believe it'll be noticed.
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3 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

I am just saying, most of this forum would have thought he was a joke in 2014. Like everyone did on HF in 2014.

 

Anyway.... I found the thread

 

Here is the HF thread on Jim Rutherfords hiring

 

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jim-rutherford-to-pittsburgh-penguins.1685071/

 

 

Since when does CDC and HF have any weights on the quality of hockeys coaches and gms 

 

in 2014 everyone thought Babcock was a God, how the mighty have fallen.

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I don’t even think he would be hired as President, never mind GM.

 

I don’t think he is looking for a full time job at his age.  One of those cushy “Senior Advisor” gigs like Burke had for a while.  Part-time, coming in and giving advice occasionally, being the “old boys network” guy you still need in the league.

 

Rutherford would be perfectly fine in that job, and maybe has the resume to keep the owner a little more hands off… which may be the most important qualification of anyone who comes into senior management for this team.

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Maybe we should start out search by identifying who has done the best job or rebuilding their team. I nominate this guy

Quote
Assistant General Manager, Director of Amateur Scouting Al Murray**

Tampa Bay Lightning. Apart from his 1st round picks he grabbed this bunch from later rounds which impresses me

 

Brayden Point.............................3rd round

Anthony Cirelli ............................3rd "

Anadrea Palat .............................7th "

Mathieu Joesph ...........................4th "

Eric Cernak .................................2nd "

Tyler Raddich ..............................2nd  "

 

Quote
 
 

Al Murray - Director Of Amateur Scouting

AL MURRAY enters his 12th season with the Lightning and second as assistant general manager - director of amateur scouting, a post he was elevated to on May 6, 2019. Previously, Murray joined the Lightning organization on August 16, 2010 as director of amateur scouting.

Murray oversees all amateur scouting operations along with the Lightning's draft preparation and execution, reporting directly to the general manager. With Tampa Bay, Murray has been lauded for his ability to find high-end prospects outside the first round, as evidenced by selecting Nikita Kucherov - the 2019 winner of the Art Ross Trophy, Ted Lindsay Award and Hart Trophy -- in the second round and NHL All-Star Brayden Point in the third. That trend continued in 2018-19 with former late-round picks Anthony Cirelli (3rd round) and Mathieu Joseph (4th round) having significant impacts on the Lightning.

Before coming to Tampa Bay, Murray served with Hockey Canada for three years as head scout of men's national teams. During his time with Hockey Canada, he was responsible for all player evaluations and selections for the National Junior Team as well as the National Men's Under-18 Team. He also worked with regional under-17 programs. Murray won the Gold Medal at both the 2008 and 2009 World Junior Championships and won gold at the 2008 World Under-18 Championship. He won championships with the National Men's Summer Under-18 Team at the 2008, 2009 and 2010 Ivan Hlinka Memorial Tournaments.

Prior to joining Hockey Canada, Murray spent 12 years with the Los Angeles Kings, serving as director of amateur scouting. In that position he was responsible for the team's amateur scouting operation, including scheduling, assignments, evaluation of talent and development of the final list of players leading up to the NHL Entry Draft. Before Murray was named to that position, he spent six years as the Kings' western scouting coordinator.

Murray served as head coach of the University of Regina's men's hockey team from 1985-88. Before that he served as the development coordinator for the Ottawa District Hockey Association, one of Hockey Canada's 13 branches. Murray also spent time as the head coach of the Kemptville 73s (Junior B) and Ottawa Senators (Junior A). He also won a bronze medal as an assistant coach with the University of Ottawa men's team at the 1981 CIAU championship.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/25/2021 at 9:04 PM, MaxVerstappen33 said:

His name just keeps coming up and its scary. The guy was considered an absolute joke before he got the Pittsburgh job. I cannot for the life of me, find the HF Boards thread about his hiring in 2014. It was a classic the amount of laughter and ridicule there was. It would be like if Pittsburgh hired Dave Nonis as GM in 2014. The reaction would be like if anyone hired Dave Nonis as GM now.

 

Anyway I cant find that thread. But I did find this article that hits the right note. There's also a more recent article about this joker that I'll post below.

 

 

Pittsburgh Penguins' Good Old Boy GM Hiring of Jim Rutherford the Wrong Move

If you didn’t think a Good Old Boys' Club still existed in the National Hockey League, you were disabused of that thought Friday when the Pittsburgh Penguins hired Jim Rutherford as their new general manager.

 

The Penguins fired a smart man in Ray Shero and replaced him with a worn out old tire in Rutherford, whose Carolina Hurricanes teams missed the playoffs the final five seasons on his watch, seven of the previous eight and nine of the last 11.

 

Hey, maybe it’ll work out in Pittsburgh for Rutherford, and I’ll be the first to give him credit if that happens (albeit with the proviso that he had Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin already on his team, and well, it’s not too tough to have a winning record with those two guys).

 

Let’s toss Rutherford the one biscuit that has propped up his resume these last eight years: His Hurricanes won the Stanley Cup in 2006, beating an Edmonton Oilers team that didn’t have its No. 1 goalie (Dwayne Roloson) for the final six games.

 

The 2005-06 season is considered one of the most unpredictable in NHL history, mostly because of the discombobulated new rules that players were adjusting to on the fly and the brand-new salary-cap system that disarmed most of the previously powerful teams.

 

The other team of his that made the playoffs in the last 11 seasons, the 2008-09 Canes, advanced to the Eastern final after successive seven-game series wins, then got swept by the Penguins. From there: five straight non-playoff seasons in the less competitive conference.

 

The NHL is still a league you can upwardly fail in, hence the Rutherford-Penguins marriage. Think about it: The Penguins, on Friday, chose a man who could not take his own team to the playoffs the last five years over a man (Shero) who took his teams to the playoffs easily the last six years, with one Stanley Cup victory and one tough Cup Final loss the previous year to Detroit.

Mario Lemieux's ownership group messed up on this one. It opened its address book to “Get me some guy with a long track record, no matter the recent record, and let’s get this over with” section and decided to hire Jim Rutherford as the next GM.

 

I expect the next couple of years to be a further decline for the formerly great Penguins. But in the Good Old Boys' Club of the NHL, that may not matter much.

"I would suspect my term here is two or three years," Rutherford told reporters at his introductory press conference.
 

Rutherford said he will spend a lot of that potential time training underlings how to succeed him in the best way.

Supply your own punchline.

 

Adrian Dater has covered the NHL since 1995 for The Denver Post. Follow him @Adater

 

 

Sounds like the Canucks are going to hire him....

 

Hopefully as President and not GM.

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I find it funny people will accept rutherford as PoHo because he is a smart hockey person but will not accept gillis as PoHo even though the non contract/trade/draft initiatives he brought to the team have been widely accepted as groundbreaking and beneficial to player management as a whole

 

 

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