(Proposal) Vancouver-Nashville

[eeeeergh]

To Nashville:
Bo Horvat
Tyler Myers

To Vancouver:
Mattias Ekholm
Colton Sissons
2022 2nd Round Pick

Why does Nashville do this? They get the #2 center they need, so Glass doesn't have to jump right from the AHL to 2C. Bo also adds scoring to a team thats having a hard time scoring goals. They take on Tyler Myers who yes is a big cap hit, but they have the space, and can contribute offensively, which is what they need. 

Why does Vancouver do this? Mattias Ekholm is a defensive specialist who was actually able to contribute a lot offensively last season, but has struggled in that department. His defensive game however has been extremely solid. Hes also big and tough and hits a lot. Sissons is a proper 3C that can run our 1st penalty kill unit. 

We get the 2nd rounder because Nashville gets the best player in the deal (Horvat). 

Also frees up a decent amount of cap space for us. 

Nashville gets a lot better offensively, we get a lot better defensively. Win win imo. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by eeeeergh

[#Canucks]

If Bo wasn’t our captain, maybe. But he is so there is no way I do this. He’s a leader for the young guys. 

[Phil_314]

4 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

If Bo wasn’t our captain, maybe. But he is so there is no way I do this. He’s a leader for the young guys. 

If rumors are true about the rift being between Bo and Miller and if management chooses to keep Miller, then this would be a great return for Cap.

[#Canucks]

26 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

If rumors are true about the rift being between Bo and Miller and if management chooses to keep Miller, then this would be a great return for Cap.

I think Miller should go. Tampa traded him for a reason. He good not the guy for the team IMO.

[Phil_314]

2 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

I think Miller should go. Tampa traded him for a reason. He good not the guy for the team IMO.

Wouldn't be surprised if subbing him in for Bo still gets it done.

[hammertime]

I think it's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic here. This trade doesn't get us over the hump to becoming contenders. Nor does it help us rebuild. 

[eeeeergh]

32 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I think it's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic here. This trade doesn't get us over the hump to becoming contenders. Nor does it help us rebuild. 

I think if we can get our penalty kill into the top half of the league, that solves a lot of our problems. I think having a legit top pairing defenseman that defends well + a 3C that specializes in penalty killing probably gets us there. If we get a real special teams coach too, who knows how much better we could be!

The offensive issues look like system/coaching issues. The Canucks have such a hard time getting high danger chances. If that's improved, we also get a lot better. 

[hammertime]

40 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I think if we can get our penalty kill into the top half of the league, that solves a lot of our problems. I think having a legit top pairing defenseman that defends well + a 3C that specializes in penalty killing probably gets us there. If we get a real special teams coach too, who knows how much better we could be!

The offensive issues look like system/coaching issues. The Canucks have such a hard time getting high danger chances. If that's improved, we also get a lot better. 

I understand the thinking. And bless your heart for trying to retool this team to make it competitive. The reality is though even if this was enough to make the playoffs. Which IMO it isn't. The cupboards are completely barren whatever progress you make isn't sustainable. Now is the time to double down on the rebuild reload and come back stronger. The top 20 of this years draft is stacked with RHD Nemec, Jiricek, Casey, Luneau, Chesley, Nelson. As well as a plethora of Big bodied power centers, Slafkovski, Geekie, Gaucher, Kasper, McGroarty. 

 

Adding 2 of these guys this year will go much further towards making the Canucks better long term. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by hammertime

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

I understand the thinking. And bless your heart for trying to retool this team to make it competitive. The reality is though even if this was enough to make the playoffs. Which IMO it isn't. The cupboards are completely barren whatever progress you make isn't sustainable. Now is the time to double down on the rebuild reload and come back stronger. The top 20 of this years draft is stacked with RHD Nemec, Jiricek, Casey, Luneau, Chesley, Nelson. As well as a plethora of Big bodied power centers, Slafkovski, Geekie, Gaucher, Kasper, McGroarty. 

 

Adding 2 of these guys this year will go much further towards making the Canucks better long term. 

Tbh I'd love a proper rebuild, and I actually think if we target 2024-2025, we'll be in a decent position to compete. Myers' contract will finally be gone. OEL's may not age that badly - obviously he wont be worth 7m at the time, but his style tends to age well, so he'll still be an effective roster player, just not top 4 most likely. 

EP's contract will be up, so we'll be able to re-evaluate him by then. 

Podz & Hogs will be hitting their primes, Horvat Hughes Boeser and Demko should all be in the best years of their careers. Hopefully EP is too but he's the one I'm least confident about. 


 

[hammertime]

48 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

OEL's may not age that badly - obviously he wont be worth 7m at the time, but his style tends to age well, so he'll still be an effective roster player, just not top 4 most likely. 

I think we probably buy him out at 34 I think the cost is like 4.5m and 1.5 the next year. Or we pay the pick to pass him off to another team. Either way I don't think it's earth shattering. Grand scheme he's a good veteran to have around to influence young players. 

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

I think we probably buy him out at 34 I think the cost is like 4.5m and 1.5 the next year. Or we pay the pick to pass him off to another team. Either way I don't think it's earth shattering. Grand scheme he's a good veteran to have around to influence young players. 

Yeah I think you're right. And as long as there's no more bonehead deals made, that should be the only "bad contract" on our books by then. Most teams have at least 1, so really no big deal. 

[mll]

They don’t need Horvat and this makes them considerably weaker defensively.  

 

Granlund is their C2 and is a better two-way player than Horvat and has also been more productive.

 

Ekholm was signed this off-season for next season.  They see him as essential as they continue and develop their young Ds.  Would also hurt goodwill to trade him - if he knew he would be traded he would have tested free agency at the end of this coming season.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by mll

[wildcam]

4 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

To Nashville:
Bo Horvat
Tyler Myers

To Vancouver:
Mattias Ekholm
Colton Sissons
2022 2nd Round Pick

Why does Nashville do this? They get the #2 center they need, so Glass doesn't have to jump right from the AHL to 2C. Bo also adds scoring to a team thats having a hard time scoring goals. They take on Tyler Myers who yes is a big cap hit, but they have the space, and can contribute offensively, which is what they need. 

Why does Vancouver do this? Mattias Ekholm is a defensive specialist who was actually able to contribute a lot offensively last season, but has struggled in that department. His defensive game however has been extremely solid. Hes also big and tough and hits a lot. Sissons is a proper 3C that can run our 1st penalty kill unit. 

We get the 2nd rounder because Nashville gets the best player in the deal (Horvat). 

Also frees up a decent amount of cap space for us. 

Nashville gets a lot better offensively, we get a lot better defensively. Win win imo. 

If trading Horvat you better be getting a better return? We will be looking for a #2 centre again..

Only forwards I would move is Boeser 7.5 million this summer?'

Miller 28,  5.3 X 2 yrs left..Time to move closer to trade deadline...1st rounder, top prospect in reaturn...

[eeeeergh]

36 minutes ago, wildcam said:

If trading Horvat you better be getting a better return? We will be looking for a #2 centre again..

Only forwards I would move is Boeser 7.5 million this summer?'

Miller 28,  5.3 X 2 yrs left..Time to move closer to trade deadline...1st rounder, top prospect in reaturn...

The deal above is an equal/fair value deal where both parties get what they need, with neither overpaying. On balance, both teams should get better with this trade.

Deals where one GM fleeces the other are rare unless you're trading a player while they're playing at their peak level at the trade deadline (like what we had to pay for Toffoli). 

Realistically Boeser doesn't get us Ekholm and a 3C. Horvat is the trade that makes the most sense b/c EP and Miller can both be centers, with one of them being #1 the other #2. 

We're likely to overvalue Boeser because he's ours, but the rest of the league would see him as an injury prone shooting specialist winger who skates slowly and is currently in a slump. That doesn't get you a top pairing defenseman, even though Ekholm is struggling offensively. 

[mll]

5 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

The deal above is an equal/fair value deal where both parties get what they need, with neither overpaying. On balance, both teams should get better with this trade.

Deals where one GM fleeces the other are rare unless you're trading a player while they're playing at their peak level at the trade deadline (like what we had to pay for Toffoli). 

Realistically Boeser doesn't get us Ekholm and a 3C. Horvat is the trade that makes the most sense b/c EP and Miller can both be centers, with one of them being #1 the other #2. 

We're likely to overvalue Boeser because he's ours, but the rest of the league would see him as an injury prone shooting specialist winger who skates slowly and is currently in a slump. That doesn't get you a top pairing defenseman, even though Ekholm is struggling offensively. 

 

This trade makes Nashville significantly worse while not addressing any of their needs.

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, mll said:

 

This trade makes Nashville significantly worse while not addressing any of their needs.

How so? They get a huge and needed upgrade at center (Ryan Johansen is not on a sustainable pace, he's a 15 goal scorer rn with a career on the decline, and Cody Glass isnt ready to step into the 2C position). They've been solid defensively but have struggled hard to create offense. They have a massive supply of defensively responsible forwards, and their entire defense core plays tight. 

Myers and Horvat both give them a boost offensively, and Horvat addresses an important positional need. 
 

[Provost]

I think when/if we trade Horvat and Miller, we should be targeting a blue chip NHL ready prospect and a high pick.  We will almost certainly also have to take on a roster player with a decent cap hit in return as most teams are close to capped out.  

That roster player and cap dumps at the deadline in exchange for picks for teams wanting to load up will help keep us half respectable for the rest of the season.

[mll]

3 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

How so? They get a huge and needed upgrade at center (Ryan Johansen is not on a sustainable pace, he's a 15 goal scorer rn with a career on the decline, and Cody Glass isnt ready to step into the 2C position). They've been solid defensively but have struggled hard to create offense. They have a massive supply of defensively responsible forwards, and their entire defense core plays tight. 

Myers and Horvat both give them a boost offensively, and Horvat addresses an important positional need. 
 

 

Horvat doesn't address any need.  They don't need Glass to play C2 any time soon and have him in Milwaukee developing.  

 

Granlund is their C2 and on a 4 year deal.  He is a PPG - 19pts in 19 games while playing a solid two-way game.  Hynes prefers him at C than wing.  He's his go-to player - does it all and is trusted in all situations.  

 

They also have a re-surrected Duchene who is on wing but can play C - he's ppg this season.  He's finally playing how they expected him to.  Far more to the inside than the perimetre game he was playing the past season.

 

Johansen plays C1 (although his line often plays less than the Granlund line).  He's played with a rotating cast of linemates - mostly their younger players with Forsberg injured (been back only this week) and Duchene playing mostly with Granlund.  He's primarily a playmaker and helps set up their goal scorers - the production isn't consistently there as those young wingers are still figuring out how to score.   Horvat is not a set up C.  Johansen earns 8M - they are better off having him in an important role than diminish it.  He's also done a good job at it this season and has been fairly productive with 16pts in 20 games.  Hynes had a few players adjust their approach and it's now coming together.
 

Don't see how it would make them better to part with Sissons - he's their top PKer and is on a reasonable deal for a C3.  Horvat doesn't even kill penalties regularly.  

 

C is not really an area of need for the next few years.  They are missing high end goal scorers and are trying to develop them as part of their rebuild.  Poile calls it a competitive rebuild - they want to get younger and bring in prospects but still want to compete.  It's a work in progress and they probably need to draft a few more of those high end players. 

 

Ekholm was signed this off-season - his deal starts only next year.  Poile listed signing him as a priority.  Ekholm plays a key mentoring role to those young Ds and is also a reliable defender.  Myers is poor in his own end and doesn't have the same solid fundamentals that Ekholm has.

 

They've actually been mostly average defensively and Saros has been winning games for them.  They need their young Ds to continue to develop.  

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by mll