Timråfan Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 40 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Canucks really didn't have the same finances back then so it's difficult to criticize them too much. Though they did tend to just throw prospects into the deep end of the pool without a life preserver. A guy like Thomas Gradin survived not just because he had two legit fighters as his wingers but also a guy who wasn't intimidated or be bullied. He was given a cheap shot by a Flyers player in Philadelphia. Gradin promptly gave the same player a hard crosscheck into the boards on the same shift or his next shift. I don't think this was that long after the Broad Street Bullies heyday. Flyers were I think a pretty mean team. However not all prospects are like that. He was definately too young as a D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Isn't the title of the thread a classic example of an Oxy-Moron ? How can a real-estate developer have any pride?????????? Go figure ???????????? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said: Isn't the title of the thread a classic example of an Oxy-Moron ? How can a real-estate developer have any pride?????????? Go figure ???????????? "You deserve to be broke". Tony Montana: "First you get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the women!". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 55 minutes ago, Timråfan said: It would be interesting to know how a young swede thought about NHL back then. It must havebeen a huge difference. Eldebring around 25 years might have been good in NHL. About one of the few Maple Leafs I will give any respect to - Salming took a *TON* of abuse. He had more guts than most. He also was just THAT good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 27 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: About one of the few Maple Leafs I will give any respect to - Salming took a *TON* of abuse. He had more guts than most. He also was just THAT good. He was a real swedish northener. They grow up similar to wood in cold climate. Tight growth rings and as hard as they can be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Timråfan said: It would be interesting to know how a young swede thought about NHL back then. It must havebeen a huge difference. Eldebring around 25 years might have been good in NHL. This is funny to my way of thinking. I was in Arica in Chile and talking to the company agent about hockey. He had apprently lived in Finland for a long time. He told me the Swedish Papers had a cartoon showing Salming coming home in a coffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 18 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Follow this................... Aqualini's had a relationship with the Sedin's before they retired (recent history says it is his MO..aka dinner with Pettersson) Aqualini and Linden hire Benning Sedin's tell Aqualini that all they need is Player Name Benning says retool, not rebuild Linden disagrees and wants to continue rebuild Aqualini agrees with Benning...who he should have never talked about this Linden is basically forced out Benning starts trading away 1st round picks and oversigning UFA's Sedin's hired as special consultants....................................(like why? where is their back ground?) Once again what you are insinuating does not line up with the timeline. I am not gonna waste my time on this as the probability of anything you are accusing the Sedins of being true is extremely low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 minute ago, 24K PureCool said: Once again what you are insinuating does not line up with the timeline. I am not gonna waste my time on this as the probability of anything you are accusing the Sedins of being true is extremely low. I can not blame you for loving the Sedin's But they are pacifist's to the core...tough pacifist's Super skilled............Super meek! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 20 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Follow this................... Aqualini's had a relationship with the Sedin's before they retired (recent history says it is his MO..aka dinner with Pettersson) Aqualini and Linden hire Benning Sedin's tell Aqualini that all they need is Player Name Benning says retool, not rebuild Linden disagrees and wants to continue rebuild Aqualini agrees with Benning...who he should have never talked about this Linden is basically forced out Benning starts trading away 1st round picks and oversigning UFA's Sedin's hired as special consultants....................................(like why? where is their back ground?) It's been a rebuild all along. 14/15 - 6 rookies were played, 2 were regulars 15/16 - 10 rookies played, 3 were regulars 16/17 - 13 rookies were played (a franchise record), 3 were regulars 18/19 - 5 rookies were played, 1 a regular 19/20 - 6 rookies were played, 2 were regulars 20/21 - 2 rookies have been played, 1 a regular Trying out that many rookies, drafted and/or traded for, isn't retooling. That's rebuilding. A retool is moving out players not performing and inserting (hopefully) better veterans acquired by trade or free agency. Benning said all along the goal was to try and compete for a playoff spot while "transitioning to a younger team". Translation: comepete for a playoff spot while rebuilding. The reason they avoided saying "rebuild" is far too many associate that word with tanking the team to ensure a bad season from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Baggins said: It's been a rebuild all along. 14/15 - 6 rookies were played, 2 were regulars 15/16 - 10 rookies played, 3 were regulars 16/17 - 13 rookies were played (a franchise record), 3 were regulars 18/19 - 5 rookies were played, 1 a regular 19/20 - 6 rookies were played, 2 were regulars 20/21 - 2 rookies have been played, 1 a regular Trying out that many rookies, drafted and/or traded for, isn't retooling. That's rebuilding. A retool is moving out players not performing and inserting (hopefully) better veterans acquired by trade or free agency. Benning said all along the goal was to try and compete for a playoff spot while "transitioning to a younger team". Translation: comepete for a playoff spot while rebuilding. The reason they avoided saying "rebuild" is far too many associate that word with tanking the team to ensure a bad season from the start. With respect Baggin's I think that is "your" reason. IMO, they never fully embraced the rebuild, and if you look at most older teams, they do very much the same thing and get younger players in for an audition. Just to also make a point here, on a 23 man roster X 32 teams, and with most teams have more players that play less than 200 games, than over, there is a turn over of approx. 2 to 3 players a year per team, which means that every year, most teams are looking at 2 to 3 rookies becoming regulars. So, looking at your stats, we were quite in the middle of the pack. Now, certainly with veteran teams there are less, but only on the good veteran teams near the top. The bottom dwellers, audition more........how many more? Who knows, but I would bet if you look league wide, those numbers you provided are pretty normal. And yes, I think you can find some teams with less, and some with more, but I would think it is much the same on average. ( NO cherry Picking!!!) And just as a further part of this, Benning resistance to fall naturally to the real floor, probably cost us, somewhere along the line, and quite honestly, winning a few games at the end of the season, where your fan base can see how fool hardy you are is not good for business. I would also like to make the point trying to keep players playing in a winning environment, needs your team to win! Usually done by keeping your picks and building through the draft.................Benning has traded away far too many early picks to claim, he has a success in that process. I think the other thing is having young guys watch as good solid veterans walk away, because the team had no choice, because of over spent cap. I think it is very naïve to think players don't see this and understand the results, especially if they fail.........(Aka Tanev and Toffoli) I would imagine guys like Pettersson and Hughes are really feeling the lack of veteran leadership. It has been a mess for a while Baggins, and we had a few players pulling us up, now they are gone, and our underwear are showing......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 4 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: I can not blame you for loving the Sedin's But they are pacifist's to the core...tough pacifist's Super skilled............Super meek! This has nothing to do with loving the Sedins or not, it is about your accusation of the Sedin meddling with Linden leaving is not possible given the timeline of events that lead up to Linden's departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: "You deserve to be broke". Tony Montana: "First you get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the women!". LOL, I forgot about 'ol Tom Vu. Many single guys will never forget this infomercial show on Friday nights after striking out in the bar - back in the day......! Edited November 28, 2021 by RU SERIOUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) Disappointing to see that Montreal will likely hire Jeff Gorton (possibly as soon as today) before the Canucks even start interviewing people for management/executive positions. (Gorton was my pick for Canucks PoHO.) Looks like he’ll be the next President of Hockey Ops for the Habs, unless something falls through late in the process (fingers crossed—maybe the fact he isn’t a francophone will scuttle things ). EDIT: and there it is GM Bergevin and AGM Timmins fired. Gorton becomes Montreal’s Executive VP of Hockey Ops. And the search begins for a bilingual GM. Edited November 28, 2021 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Yeah a case to waiting too long. One candidate removed from the list. Quote A veteran of 1191 NHL games, Bergevin has served as the Habs’ general manager since 2012-13 after spending the previous seven years in various roles with the Chicago Blackhawks. Montreal has made the playoffs in six of the nine seasons under Bergevin and last year went on a deep playoff run to the Stanley Cup finals ultimately losing to the Tampa Bay Lightning. Like you I thought Gorton had done a pretty good job with the NYR, John Davidson of course was quickly re hired by CBJ. Slow on the draw FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 14 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: With respect Baggin's I think that is "your" reason. IMO, they never fully embraced the rebuild, and if you look at most older teams, they do very much the same thing and get younger players in for an audition. Just to also make a point here, on a 23 man roster X 32 teams, and with most teams have more players that play less than 200 games, than over, there is a turn over of approx. 2 to 3 players a year per team, which means that every year, most teams are looking at 2 to 3 rookies becoming regulars. So, looking at your stats, we were quite in the middle of the pack. Now, certainly with veteran teams there are less, but only on the good veteran teams near the top. The bottom dwellers, audition more........how many more? Who knows, but I would bet if you look league wide, those numbers you provided are pretty normal. And yes, I think you can find some teams with less, and some with more, but I would think it is much the same on average. ( NO cherry Picking!!!) And just as a further part of this, Benning resistance to fall naturally to the real floor, probably cost us, somewhere along the line, and quite honestly, winning a few games at the end of the season, where your fan base can see how fool hardy you are is not good for business. I would also like to make the point trying to keep players playing in a winning environment, needs your team to win! Usually done by keeping your picks and building through the draft.................Benning has traded away far too many early picks to claim, he has a success in that process. I think the other thing is having young guys watch as good solid veterans walk away, because the team had no choice, because of over spent cap. I think it is very naïve to think players don't see this and understand the results, especially if they fail.........(Aka Tanev and Toffoli) I would imagine guys like Pettersson and Hughes are really feeling the lack of veteran leadership. It has been a mess for a while Baggins, and we had a few players pulling us up, now they are gone, and our underwear are showing......... Trying is a key word in there. "Trying" to make the playoffs while rebuilding is a lofty goal. Particularly given the sad lack of talent on the farm team should injuries pile up. And pile up they did. That list of rookies added each year doesn't include young players acquired who were no longer rookies but still young and unproven. Those were rebuilding moves just as the number of rookies year after year was. No team adds that many young (most unproven) as a retool. Retooling these rookies have to outplay veterans for a spot. or players not performing are moved out and proven players acquired. Benning was trying to rebuild on the fly rather than an all out tank job. To make the playoffs a lot would have to go right. Particularly in the injury department. It didn't. As far as I'm concerned it's the best of both worlds. Things go right you make the playoffs. Things don't go right you get a high first round pick. I hate teams being set up to fail from the start of the season. Why would I pay to seet that? I have serious doubts the rebuild would have been any faster had he tanked the team from the beginning. How long would it take to replace an entire roster through the draft? You'd certainly start off with three stars in three years but have absolutely nothing to go with them. Likely wasting their first two contracts just trying to build the rest of the team. I said from day one you want the highest talent coming towards the end of rebuilding to maximize their time with the team to open a longer window. It took too long to build a team around the WCE. It took too long to build the team around the Sedins. Limited windows. I think Benning went about it the right way. Either way it wasn't going to be a quick rebuild with the entire team needing to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS4quality Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Should Aquililini hire Trevor Linden to fire Jim Benning? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 27 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said: Who has the best Pizza in Van, these days? Hunt serves up a couple of quality pizzas every time he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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