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[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks


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1 hour ago, Provost said:

Yep… no question a lot of teams would have him as their 2C.

 

Having said that, if he wants too much then he wants too much.  We have two good centres signed already so don’t have to fold to whatever the demand is.  I probably would have done Bo first, so they weren’t as worried about losing both him and Miller… but maybe a deal wasn’t to be had then.

 

I don’t know why a $7 million times 8 year deal isn’t pretty fair for both sides.  Same total dollars as Miller, but has to work one year longer to earn it.  If the team is offering significantly less than that, they are out to lunch on his value or just don’t prioritize him very highly.  If he is demanding a lot more than that, then he may mistaking how many suitors there would be for him at that price point.

 

Maybe he gets $7.5-7.75 in free agency, but he may also not get that offer from a team he wants to play for and has a chance of winning.  Not a lot of teams are likely going to shell out $8 million on him as he doesn’t rack up points at an elite level.

 

The band of a fair deal seems pretty narrow at $6.75-7.25 million to me with a max term and some sort of limited trade protection (eg.  10 team no trade list).

 

I do have a worry that what he does is underestimated and losing him could have a bigger knock on effect to the rest of the roster than the brass realizes.  I remember when Tanev, Edler, and Stecher were being removed from the roster it seemed like an OK time to move on… but they were by far our best shot suppressing D and it left a gaping hole in the lineup that we still haven’t replaced.  Now we try to miscast OEL and Myers into that role which takes away from their actual skillset.

 

 

He wouldn't be overpaid at 7M, I'd describe that as fair. Even 7.25M would probably be fair. Anything less than 7M is him giving the team a discount imo, anyone expecting him to take something like 6-6.5M or less is out to lunch imo. As the cap raises people need to adjust their expectations of what a player is going to earn and what is fair market value because most players will earn more as the cap rises. Stars and top players will take more of each cap increase but it will affect the overall market for players. You won't be able to gauge what 2C's are making in 5 years off what they made now, it won't fly.  

 

I could see him wanting a full NTC tbh, I wouldn't be shocked if it wasn't dollars holding things up. Bo had zero trade protection on his last deal, if he's signing to stick around in BC I see him wanting to be able to control his destiny. Him and the rest of the room sat around as the media went nuts over Miller, security isn't just dollars and term as demonstrated by Miller getting a NMC that eventually turns into a modified 15 team NTC after the first four years. 

 

Why wouldn't Bo want a NMC or something similar? Why sign a fair value deal so a team can flip you away a year or two later if you really want to stay in BC? 

 

I think he's definitely undervalued by segments of the fanbase at the very least, I've been arguing he's not a luxury for this team for a while now. Horvat plays a lot of roles for this team, he's no defensive specialist but he's a 2C who's used as a bit of a utility guy on this roster. He's a goal scorer, one of the team's better goalscorers even. If he plays anything close to a full season he should probably be a 25 goal scorer or better. If you look at his last five seasons he's put up 22 in 64, 27 in 82, 22 in 69, 19 in 56, and 31 in 70. He's one of the better faceoff guys in the league and he eats some tough minutes for this team. All of these things make him valuable but you're unlikely to get full value for him without a deal in place. As for management? Hard to say, but maybe. 

 

 

 

Edited by Coconuts
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7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The stat that blew me away the most from last night was that Petey had 3 hits and BO only had 1. That’s like Henrik Sedin having more hits than Ryan Kesler. That kinda tells you everything you need to know about which player was more engaged in the game. 
 

If a scrawny Swedish player who is 180lbs soaking wet is outhitting a 215lb bull like BO then you know something isn’t right. 

Petey was 27% on faceoffs compared to Horvat's 61% and Petey had triple the amount of giveaways.

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10 minutes ago, J-23 said:

I wonder if Garland for Carlo was really a possibility at one point. In hindsight with Kuz and Mikheyev signings it could have really helped us. 

I don't think so.

 

Bruins don't really have a replacement lined up and he plays a higher valued position. They seem to be a LH D heavy team too so I figure they'd want to move one of those first. 

 

At least IMO.

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It is incredibly disappointing that Dickinson didn't turn out. We need a solid 3C.

In the off-season, I would move out Boeser and Garland and run something like this lineup for next season, with the acquisition of a 3C. 

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Miller

Mikheyev - Horvat - Podkolzin

Hoglander -           - 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Petey was 27% on faceoffs compared to Horvat's 61% and Petey had triple the amount of giveaways.


Also hits for game one - Petey 3, Bo 1

Hits last year - Petey (80 games) 49, Bo (70 games)  96. Third among forwards after JT and Dickie.

 

I don’t think we have to worry about Petey outhitting Bo over the course of the year.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Petey was 27% on faceoffs compared to Horvat's 61% and Petey had triple the amount of giveaways.

Hey now, we only talk about positive Pettersson numbers around here. Like the likely 10M he'll be earning in a couple years as salaries for top players go up as a whole. 

 

Pettersson and Matthews expire the same year, if Matthews gets anything close to 14-16M Pettersson probably gets at least 10. Especially if he performs the way folks keep saying he will. 

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Hate to say it 'cause I love the guy but the trade chip I'd like to see us use the most would be Brock.

When rumours circulated 2 yrs ago on a possible Dumba trade I was all over it... much to the chagrin of most around these parts. He's on a good contract right now with no NMC as far as I can tell. If he gets hot and GM's start calling, he'd be first to go in my view. Even if he started tearing it up, a swap for a top 4/5 bonafide defender would be best for the club moving forward. If his skating was better I'd be more on the fence but I feel this is where he hurts himself the most.

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Here's an honest question. Is Petey really a C? Is he really a guy you can rely on taking draws?

 

He took 540 faceoffs last year, 4th last on the team in draws taken and was 44.1%. The previous year even less he took 140 draws and was 45% was 6th last on the team in faceoffs.

 

Meanwhile last year Horvat took 1475 faceoffs last year and was 57%. Miller took 1233 faceoffs at 54.1%. 

 

I bring this up because perhaps Petey doesn't belong down the middle? It's year 5 now and his career faceoffs 1459 at 42.5% which is still less than what Horvat did last year alone.

 

Petey has already had success with Miller taking draws so perhaps we should look to acquire a 3rd C to alleviate Horvat/Miller? Petey at wing would help build a surplus that we already have at wing and given how Petey plays he could probably play both wings 

 

This on top of the acquisition of Kuz and Mikheyev could allow us to part with a couple wingers, say Garland and Boeser who have value? When you look at our winger depth prospect-wise Karlsson, Klimovich, Lekkerimaki, Lockwood are all RH wingers. On top of having Pod already usually playing RW and Hoglander who can play both wings moving both Garland/Boeser looks to be a feasible feat.

 

They both have value and could fetch us a return that can help build the team more properly moving forward.

 

Edited by Junkyard Dog
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16 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

It's nice to see someone else say it, I've been telling folks I'm skeptical as to whether Pettersson is a center or not for a while. And questioning how management views him long term. Some folks will argue he is til they're blue in the face, there's simply no getting around the fact that being able to at least hold your own in the dot is a must for a center. At least around 50%, ideally better.  

 

Nobody's questioning whether Pettersson is a talented offensive player or not, but questioning his fit as a center is absolutely fair game. Thus far he hasn't proven he's able to hold his own, let alone step into Horvat's shoes as far as deployment goes. Maybe he shows us he can do it but he hasn't yet. While playing with Miller or Horvat there's someone else to take draws but he's not always going to play on a line where there's another player capable of winning draws. 

 

People keep saying we can't afford to spend 7M on three different centers, if Horvat is re-signed I'm not convinced we would be. Pettersson as a top line wing is fine, allows him to focus more on the offensive side of things. And hey, if they want him as a center having both Miller and Horvat to insulate him while he hones his craft in the dot isn't the worst thing. 

I want teams to start realizing that players can actually move during the course of play!  I just do not understand why the centre HAS to take the draw.  If you suck at playing the position but are awesome at winning face offs then can you not slide over to the wing during the course of play?  Obviously the opposite should also be true imo.  What if you’re awesome at playing centre but just aren’t great at taking draws?

 

It’s a random pet peeve of mine lol! 

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32 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Here's an honest question. Is Petey really a C? Is he really a guy you can rely on taking draws?

 

He took 540 faceoffs last year, 4th last on the team in draws taken and was 44.1%. The previous year even less he took 140 draws and was 45% was 6th last on the team in faceoffs.

 

Meanwhile last year Horvat took 1475 faceoffs last year and was 57%. Miller took 1233 faceoffs at 54.1%. 

 

I bring this up because perhaps Petey doesn't belong down the middle? It's year 5 now and his career faceoffs 1459 at 42.5% which is still less than what Horvat did last year alone.

 

Petey has already had success with Miller taking draws so perhaps we should look to acquire a 3rd C to alleviate Horvat/Miller? Petey at wing would help build a surplus that we already have at wing and given how Petey plays he could probably play both wings 

 

This on top of the acquisition of Kuz and Mikheyev could allow us to part with a couple wingers, say Garland and Boeser who have value? When you look at our winger depth prospect-wise Karlsson, Klimovich, Lekkerimaki, Lockwood are all RH wingers. On top of having Pod already usually playing RW and Hoglander who can play both wings moving both Garland/Boeser looks to be a feasible feat.

 

They both have value and could fetch us a return that can help build the team more properly moving forward.

 

There is more to being a center than just face offs. :picard:

 

Honestly faceoff numbers are over-rated unless we talking about a pk or last min in a period/game. 

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2 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

I want teams to start realizing that players can actually move during the course of play!  I just do not understand why the centre HAS to take the draw.  If you suck at playing the position but are awesome at winning face offs then can you not slide over to the wing during the course of play?  Obviously the opposite should also be true imo.  What if you’re awesome at playing centre but just aren’t great at taking draws?

 

It’s a random pet peeve of mine lol! 

The team have been moving to winger on their strong side taking draws instead of the center on the weak side. 

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Just now, 24K PureCool said:

There is more to being a center than just face offs. :picard:

 

Honestly faceoff numbers are over-rated unless we talking about a pk or last min in a period/game. 

He has had major success with Miller at wing already so he is more than capable of playing there. Faceoffs are an important part of coming out with possession throughout the game.

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11 hours ago, HKSR said:

How is that a guarantee?  He's just entered his prime.  There's a good chance that he is a 90pt player for a few seasons.  Wait... unless you're talking about age?  Then yes!  Definitely, Miller will NOT be 90 years old yet.  Although some people do talk about him like he is :P

Great players, and the ultra-rare players that don't slow down in their 30's, don't enter their primes at age 29.

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25 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

I want teams to start realizing that players can actually move during the course of play!  I just do not understand why the centre HAS to take the draw.  If you suck at playing the position but are awesome at winning face offs then can you not slide over to the wing during the course of play?  Obviously the opposite should also be true imo.  What if you’re awesome at playing centre but just aren’t great at taking draws?

 

It’s a random pet peeve of mine lol! 

Because somebody needs to be able to do it, realistically Pettersson will ascend as Miller gradually declines and there will eventually come a time where Miller probably isn't a top six player anymore. Or Horvat. Ideally you shouldn't have to work around a top six center who can't effectively win draws, it shouldn't have to enter the picture when it comes to line combinations or player acquisition. Winning draws has historically been a center's job, guys who can't do it don't typically play much center. 

 

Winning draws is important, yes there are other aspects to playing center but winning draws is directly tied to puck possession. We're a team who's forward heavy with a questionable defense, we absolutely want to be winning puck possession as often as we can. If Pettersson is taking draws and not winning them, or not taking draws, yeah I view that as a problem. We're also a team who doesn't have much in the way of center prospects in the system, let alone anyone who projects as a top six center. It's not a position we've got depth at, which puts more strain on the guys who can actually win draws. If one of Miller or Horvat go down we're not just hurting offensively, it'll impact our entire possession game. 

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1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

Not even remotely true. Think at this point your just doubling down based on how much you s*** on Bo to prop Miller up all summer. Absolutely bizarre. Both are great players for this team or any team period. 

Bo is not Petey,

and he definitely not Miller.

 

Bo ..  Great ?  
 Until his game evolves physically, vocally, and engaged leading his team by example , he is not “Great” material.

 

I said this before Mille was signed,.  Horvat isn’t going to get any better than what we see.

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1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

You have no idea what they prioritized or when he was taken off the market. If a trade offer was good enough he’d be elsewhere. Clearly the trade offers weren’t moving the needle much/as much as they wanted so keeping him was more valuable. 
 

The same thing will happen with Bo and a dozen or so other high end FA this year. 

There was direct comments from Rutherford last TDL that they were taking him off the market and that they prioritized extending him. You believe whatever you want though...

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1 hour ago, J-23 said:

It is incredibly disappointing that Dickinson didn't turn out. We need a solid 3C.

In the off-season, I would move out Boeser and Garland and run something like this lineup for next season, with the acquisition of a 3C. 

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Miller

Mikheyev - Horvat - Podkolzin

Hoglander -           - 

 

 

That's the route forward I see as well. I like Garland and Boeser, but wingers are wingers and C's are C's.

 

And over the next year or so, we should also be able to start seeing guys like Karlsson, Klimovich, McDonagh etc reach for those 3rd line spots as well. Never mind who we might unearth from undrafted FA's, unqualified RFA's like Aman etc.

 

Move Boeser/Garland for a RHD and 3C, keep on trucking.

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