Elias Pettersson Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Coconuts said: Better to have capable center playing wing on at least one of your top six lines. Injuries happen, wouldn't be a luxury then. All it's gonna take is one of Horvat or Miller getting hurt for a good chunk of time and our possession game likely tanks. We don't have another center who can play in the top six and capably win draws. One of Horvat, Pettersson, and Miller playing wing at any given time isn't a bad thing. Pure wingers are much easier to replace. Podkolzin played some centre when he was in Russia. He's similar to Rantanen who can step in and play centre in Colorado. Colorado doesn't have an actual centre playing wing, so it is not necessary to have that. What we need is an actual 3C who is great at faceoffs and a great penalty killer. Horvat is not a 3C, he is not great at penalty killing. Neither is Miller or Petey which is why we need that pure 3C. Our penalty killing is going to suck until we get one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Coconuts said: Could, but bottom line is we don't have a single player in the system who can effectively replace him outside of maybe Miller and you don't want that. Move Horvat and suddenly your precious Miller isn't able to freewheel offensively as much because he'll have to play more of a two-way game by necessity. Miller doesn't hit 99 points last season without Horvat doing the heavy lifting he did, he'd have been utilized differently by necessity. Having Horvat backing him makes Miller's life easier. Horvat may be miscast as a defensive center but he absolutely carries the load for this club, or at least has thus far. Nobody's been able to take that role away from him, and he's provided top six offense while doing so. If you look at his pace he's been roughly on pace for 25 goals the last five seasons too. Horvat doesn't have to be your best player to be a valuable piece of your team. He is miscast as a defensive centre because he isn't a 3C, he is a 2C. He shouldn't be playing the role of checking the other team's top line, he should be allowed to be a 2C. Which is the whole point of my argument that we need a pure 3C who can take faceoffs, can kill penalties and can check the opposition's top line. Horvat isn't that guy. Either Horvat plays as a 2C and we move Petey to the wing, or Horvat gets traded, and we need to bring in a 3C. Your argument is for the former, which is fine, my argument is for the latter, which is where we disagree on. Petey needs to play centre, period. He will learn to get better on faceoffs, I am sure Miller will teach him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He is miscast as a defensive centre because he isn't a 3C, he is a 2C. He shouldn't be playing the role of checking the other team's top line, he should be allowed to be a 2C. Which is the whole point of my argument that we need a pure 3C who can take faceoffs, can kill penalties and can check the opposition's top line. Horvat isn't that guy. Either Horvat plays as a 2C and we move Petey to the wing, or Horvat gets traded, and we need to bring in a 3C. Your argument is for the former, which is fine, my argument is for the latter, which is where we disagree on. Petey needs to play centre, period. He will learn to get better on faceoffs, I am sure Miller will teach him. Petey is miscasrt as a C imo Miller C Bo 2C and a new 3C is my ideal setup imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, SilentSam said: But I don’t think it will work if he is asking anything above what Boeser is signed for right now . 6.25 ?? Even then if Bo signed for 6.25 , those 2 are fighting to stay with the Canucks. If a trade comes that makes sense, is the option that Management is not going to give away right now. To quote Tina Turner “2 men enter , 1 man leaves.” Also, Something interesting is happening in the league dynamically now with signings. Some Teams are willing to go “all in” on RFA’s, or risk losing them because they don’t want to stay with a club. Other RFA ‘s. are opting to just ask for a trade. Not trying to flip a table here Nuts, but patience is certainly a virtue right now. Personally , I’d like to see Horvat consistently play with a fire in his belly, and only wish he was mentored by Smyl , back when, and not the Twins. If Horvat played like Stan Smyl (RIP Jennifer), he would never be mentioned in any trade threads. He would be signed to a lifetime contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Petey is miscasrt as a C imo Miller C Bo 2C and a new 3C is my ideal setup imo No, you are wrong my friend. And the scrawny little kid is going to prove you wrong, you just wait and see... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said: We have Kuz now and most of our credible prospects are RH wingers (Lekkerimaki, Karlsson, Lockwood, Klimovich). Pod usually plays the right side and Hog can play both sides. You named one dude worth a damn, and he's expected to be a bit of a project. Pod being left handed doesn't dispute my point either. Hogs going into the season was talked about as failing to make the roster all together. Not saying I don't think he's NHL caliber, but he isn't filling Boeser or Garland's shoes. And again, is left handed. We have 3 left handed top 6 centers. So our plan for right hand shots is Lekkerimaki who can be 4 years away for all we know and a bunch of bottom 6 hopefuls? I dunno. Maybe I am overhyping having more than 2 right handed players that are actually good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Strong up the middle and strong defence. Wingers are far easier to find. I love the fact we have so many good wingers because we can move one and it wouldn’t be all that noticeable. Move a Center and it’s a huge hit. There is no need for a traditional 3rd line center when we can run three lines. Hell half the game is played on special teams anyways 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Petey is miscasrt as a C imo Miller C Bo 2C and a new 3C is my ideal setup imo I been saying this for over a year now. I know it's one game but Petey was 3 for 11 on faceoffs. Those weren't really juggernaut faceoff players he was staring down in Edmonton either. Draisaitl is barely 50% in his career and McDavid is a respectable but not great 46%. Petey is bordering on liability in the dot. Play him on the wing, let Miller babysit him. Keep Bo at 2C. Find a true shutdown 3rd line center. Move some of our excess wingers, preferably keep one of Boeser or Garland. I feel like I am the only one that cares to have a mix of left and right handed players instead of all lefties. Bo is not a true two way guy. He's fine defensively, is great in the dot and has decent offensive drive giving you a solid 60-65 points a season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: We don't need to pay someone over $7 million to take faceoffs. We also shouldn't be relying on Petey to get us the most hits. We need a true 3C that can do both and also kill penalties... Horvat does more than take faceoffs. It's just one of the thing he does. He also has good corsi stats despite getting more Dzone starts than Ozone compared to others at the top of the list who have more Ozone starts save for Pearson. He also was 3/4 on shootouts last year which was the highest success percentage of the team. He also scored 30 goals last year. Was 3rd most in hits for forward last year. 3rd in GWGs. Seems to well as a bumper on the PP evident with being 1st on the team last year in PPGs. Also one of our better playoff performers and for a team wanting to win-now, I think that's more important than anything. I can go on but safe to say he's our 4th best skater and 5th most important piece. Not just a 7M dollar faceoff man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, N7Nucks said: You named one dude worth a damn, and he's expected to be a bit of a project. Pod being left handed doesn't dispute my point either. Hogs going into the season was talked about as failing to make the roster all together. Not saying I don't think he's NHL caliber, but he isn't filling Boeser or Garland's shoes. And again, is left handed. We have 3 left handed top 6 centers. So our plan for right hand shots is Lekkerimaki who can be 4 years away for all we know and a bunch of bottom 6 hopefuls? I dunno. Maybe I am overhyping having more than 2 right handed players that are actually good. Nothing is a guarantee but I am just pointing out we have depth there. When you compare it to our RD-core that has no depth in the system at all it seems like a night and day situation. Ultimately there's more safety there. I like Garland and Boeser. I just don't think Garland is a fit on this team, especially in playoff hockey. Boeser when he's on top of his game is a fit on the team but he's been too inconsistent offensive to cement himself as a solid fit. Also at a 6.65M cap hit I feel we probably might be better off spending that elsewhere. I am wanting to see more of Kuzmenko but so far he looks like his play style would do well down the stretch but these are premature judgements. I would throw Petey at wing with Miller which would help create a winger surplus and seek out a 3rd C. I've made a post earlier that goes more in depth with these opinions if you'd like to hear them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Darius said: ok I buy this argument. Its a good one. But this carries some risk. So suppose we unload Brock and or Garland for picks/prospects that are used as currency, and the freed up cap is used to accommodate the new salary. You basically need to find a team willing to part with a proven young asset for 'peanuts' because they need to free up his cap space or he is a redundant type player that they have. The stars really have to align. I say proven young asset because thats what we need. You can also use the freed up cap space to go after players hard in free agency. 11 million dollars is a lot to play with if you trade Brock and Garland for picks...but then you are competing with other teams and will likely overpay if the guy actually agrees to join the team. Regarding Marino - is that calibre of player really a solution for us? @aGENT Pens fans were not too sad to see him go. Late round pick, had one really good year... While we could end up also targeting lesser problems in moving them both. Like acquiring a 3rd C or 3RD on top of some picks/prospects. There's no avoiding risk in any decision we make. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: He is miscast as a defensive centre because he isn't a 3C, he is a 2C. He shouldn't be playing the role of checking the other team's top line, he should be allowed to be a 2C. Which is the whole point of my argument that we need a pure 3C who can take faceoffs, can kill penalties and can check the opposition's top line. Horvat isn't that guy. Either Horvat plays as a 2C and we move Petey to the wing, or Horvat gets traded, and we need to bring in a 3C. Your argument is for the former, which is fine, my argument is for the latter, which is where we disagree on. Petey needs to play centre, period. He will learn to get better on faceoffs, I am sure Miller will teach him. lol point is EP haven't gotten better in faceoff last year.. he actually gotten worse than the previous year.. he was pretty bad during preseason.. and he was atrocious last night winnign 3 out of 14 while the everyone else dominated the oiler in the faceoff circle.. his strength and his body type is just not suitable to be effective in the faceoff circle. most center just overpowers him in the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 6 hours ago, N7Nucks said: I been saying this for over a year now. I know it's one game but Petey was 3 for 11 on faceoffs. Those weren't really juggernaut faceoff players he was staring down in Edmonton either. Draisaitl is barely 50% in his career and McDavid is a respectable but not great 46%. Petey is bordering on liability in the dot. Play him on the wing, let Miller babysit him. Keep Bo at 2C. Find a true shutdown 3rd line center. Move some of our excess wingers, preferably keep one of Boeser or Garland. I feel like I am the only one that cares to have a mix of left and right handed players instead of all lefties. Bo is not a true two way guy. He's fine defensively, is great in the dot and has decent offensive drive giving you a solid 60-65 points a season. A shutdown 3C, should he developed within the system or risk another Dickenson type situation. Canucks gave up a 3rd and 2nd for Dickenson, think about that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Off topic, I hope Garland can teach Joshua how to play physical Sign Bo for $6.5, or trade him Canucks will have Mikheyev coming back, would be good for them to re-sign Kuzmenko next season, and in a year or two, they might also bring in Lekkerimaki. Lots of wingers. Trade Boeser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: If Horvat played like Stan Smyl (RIP Jennifer), he would never be mentioned in any trade threads. He would be signed to a lifetime contract. Exactly. If Bo played like he did in the bubble playoffs he would have been the priority signing. Bo has steadily declined in, for lack of a better description, passion and effort.... Yes he is a good face off guy, yes he plays well at both ends, but everything he does now seems somewhat disinterested. I'm glad management is seeing that based on where they are valuing him on contract negotiations. I like Bo at 5.5m and no "C". Anything above that or if he wants to retain the "C" and I'm ready to move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Darius said: ok I buy this argument. Its a good one. But this carries some risk. So suppose we unload Brock and or Garland for picks/prospects that are used as currency, and the freed up cap is used to accommodate the new salary. You basically need to find a team willing to part with a proven young asset for 'peanuts' because they need to free up his cap space or he is a redundant type player that they have. The stars really have to align. I say proven young asset because thats what we need. You can negotiate both trades in tandem to reduce that risk. 8 hours ago, Darius said: Regarding Marino - is that calibre of player really a solution for us? @aGENT Pens fans were not too sad to see him go. Late round pick, had one really good year... A young "Tanev" type who's solid defensively and consistently pushes play forward? He's by no means an "exciting" player but I'd argue he'd have been a solid fit for our needs. Would have looked great opposite OEL IMO. Still would have left Hughes long term partner up in the air though.... 8 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Petey is miscasrt as a C imo Miller C Bo 2C and a new 3C is my ideal setup imo Petey is arguably a better C at everything short of faceoffs. Let Miller take the majority of draws and slide over to the W. Problem solved. Edited October 14, 2022 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Don’t understand why people are so against moving Pettersson to the wing? When Mikeal Granlund played under BB, he shifted him to the wing, and he had his best seasons to date. If we want to maximize Pettersson’s potential, he should be playing wing. It should allows him to have more freedom in the offensive zone, without him worrying about the defensive side of the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 7 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said: Horvat does more than take faceoffs. It's just one of the thing he does. He also has good corsi stats despite getting more Dzone starts than Ozone compared to others at the top of the list who have more Ozone starts save for Pearson. He also was 3/4 on shootouts last year which was the highest success percentage of the team. He also scored 30 goals last year. Was 3rd most in hits for forward last year. 3rd in GWGs. Seems to well as a bumper on the PP evident with being 1st on the team last year in PPGs. Also one of our better playoff performers and for a team wanting to win-now, I think that's more important than anything. I can go on but safe to say he's our 4th best skater and 5th most important piece. Not just a 7M dollar faceoff man. I do understand that, I am very familiar with Horvat's resume. The issue is JR doesn't want to pay him for all of that because we now have Miller locked up long term as our 1C and Petey is our 2C, even though some won't ever get over this and continue in calling him a winger. So that leaves BO as a 3C. Does he get more ice time than a typical 3C? Sure, he does. That is because the team is putting him in those positions to get more ice time. The bumper spot on the PP, the PK, taking most of the defensive zones draws, etc. The reason he hasn't been signed yet is because the team does not want to pay him as a 2C, they want to pay him as a 3C. We can get someone else to play the bumper spot. I would put Podkolzin in there. He has all the tools to succeed in that role and he's only making 925k. As for the PK, Horvat is an average defensive player, so we are better off getting an actual pure 3C who can be a top PK'er in this league who can partner with Mikheyev. Horvat isn't that guy. As for faceoffs, that 3C can also be our main faceoff guy and take most of the important draws. That 3C doesn't need to score 30 goals. He can be a 10-15 goal scorer. We can make up the other 15 goals from our wingers. Kuzmenko looks like he can score 30 just by himself. Add in Podkolzin and Mikheyev and we have plenty of guys who can make up the difference. Seems to me that management agrees with my take. If they didn't Horvat would have been signed already if they felt the same as you do... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 9 hours ago, Devron said: Strong up the middle and strong defence. Wingers are far easier to find. I love the fact we have so many good wingers because we can move one and it wouldn’t be all that noticeable. Move a Center and it’s a huge hit. There is no need for a traditional 3rd line center when we can run three lines. Hell half the game is played on special teams anyways I don't really think this strategy is working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: lol point is EP haven't gotten better in faceoff last year.. he actually gotten worse than the previous year.. he was pretty bad during preseason.. and he was atrocious last night winnign 3 out of 14 while the everyone else dominated the oiler in the faceoff circle.. his strength and his body type is just not suitable to be effective in the faceoff circle. most center just overpowers him in the dot. Actually, it was 3 out of 11 but who's counting right? Petey is a centre in every aspect except faceoffs at this point in his career. Seems like the management want him to play centre full time and carry a line. He was our best player last game, so what is there to complain about? He likes to be in the middle of the ice and do his thing. He is not a winger. He is not strong enough to go into the boards and fight for the puck. But more importantly his skill set serves him best in the middle of the ice. Same with Miller. He is big and strong enough to play as a winger but his passing skills and vision of the ice allow him more freedom to play as a centre. Petey will get there in terms of taking faceoffs. I am sure Miller is working with him every day... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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