Coconuts Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 I'm not even mad, I'm just disappointed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Bo + Rathbone to CBJ for Johnston + Jiricek 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Coconuts said: It sucks. I spent all summer arguing against signing Miller and now we're stuck with him, I argued the importance of Horvat and repeatedly explained how he's not a luxury for this team and now we're talking about trading him at the beginning of November. I thought he'd be signed, we should have signed him first. I thought we'd be a fringe playoff team but I never thought it'd look this bad at this point. It sucks. Bo's being a machine out there, he's hot out the gate, he's showing up and doing his thing and we're awful. And what makes it worse is the more we lose the less I think he'll want to re-sign, he's come up with the Canucks mostly missing the playoffs and this season has been more losing. Even if he's loyal to Vancouver, and I'm sure he is, why would he want to stick around through what looks like could be another retool? Or an actual rebuild? At this point I wouldn't fault him for wanting to get a fresh start elsewhere. Boston would sign him, Pacioretty comes off the books this season, Carolina could easily sign him to be their 2C and he could go running with a contender. And honestly, I'd root for him. Despite the flack he's gotten over the years he's given us his best. Yeah. Benning has really screwed this team over. His mistakes still haunt this team, and has crippled what this current management team can do. They should be much better than they are on the ice, though with all the talent the roster has. We were talking about one of the best top 9. What happened to that?? I agree with you that Bo should have signed first. And it does look to me that he's probably going to walk or be traded before the TDL. I think his heart is to stay here and help this team win a championship, it takes a special person to want to do that for a city that has never won a championship. But it also begs the question, what happens to the other core pieces - like Petey and Hughes. Are they wanting to commit to this club moving forward? Losing Bo and then not being able to replace him would signal that they're in full rebuild mode. Does Petey even want to be a part of that? More losing. Does Hughes? I'm at a loss for answers. It's last season all over again. And I'm frustrated as hell with this club. How does Carolina have all the talent they have on their roster and still would have room to sign Bo, if he's a UFA? How the fuck does that happen, and how we're a shit team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 15 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I'm not even mad, I'm just disappointed. Your right. Fans are entering into a state of apathy. Francesco has to be one of the dumbest owners in the league. Refusing to rebuild several years back has led to this. FUCK HIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, BPA said: Bo + Rathbone to CBJ for Johnston + Jiricek I'd do it, I'd even let them talk to Bo about an extension 20 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Yeah. Benning has really screwed this team over. His mistakes still haunt this team, and has crippled what this current management team can do. They should be much better than they are on the ice, though with all the talent the roster has. We were talking about one of the best top 9. What happened to that?? I agree with you that Bo should have signed first. And it does look to me that he's probably going to walk or be traded before the TDL. I think his heart is to stay here and help this team win a championship, it takes a special person to want to do that for a city that has never won a championship. But it also begs the question, what happens to the other core pieces - like Petey and Hughes. Are they wanting to commit to this club moving forward? Losing Bo and then not being able to replace him would signal that they're in full rebuild mode. Does Petey even want to be a part of that? More losing. Does Hughes? I'm at a loss for answers. It's last season all over again. And I'm frustrated as hell with this club. How does Carolina have all the talent they have on their roster and still would have room to sign Bo, if he's a UFA? How the fuck does that happen, and how we're a shit team. Yeah, I don't blame it all on current management, they inherited a mess. It's definitely one of the better top 9's we've iced in years, but this team just can't do it. I don't know. I'd have no issue keeping Bo through a rebuild if he wanted to stay but I don't know if there's room for both him and Miller capwise on a rebuilding club. I don't know about Pettersson or Hughes. What they do is likely influenced by how decisive management is and what happens over the next couple seasons. Gotta sell them something. It's funny, Bo could slot right in and take over for Staal. Both him and Pacioretty come off the books this coming offseason. Gardiner, Anderson, Raanta, and others too. They'll need to figure out their goaltending but they'll have a good amount of flex. Could easily extend him and be set down the middle with him and Aho. I guess they've just managed things better, and managed to draft and develop their own talent for the most part. Slavin's a 4th rounder, Aho's a 2nd rounder, Pesch was a 3rd rounder. They've also made savvy trades. 19 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Your right. Fans are entering into a state of apathy. Francesco has to be one of the dumbest owners in the league. Refusing to rebuild several years back has led to this. FUCK HIM Not apathy, I still care. I'm still invested, but I struggle to be optimistic about this team, this is just more of the same. But it's a second historically bad start in a row. Vintage shared this. Edited November 2, 2022 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 With Bo doing as good as he is well his trade value is huge. We could get a young C and RHD or one and a first. Doing this we would have to trade more another core player like BB. If the team after or untill Xmas then you move more and get picks for a true rebuild. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, BPA said: Bo + Rathbone to CBJ for Johnston + Jiricek Forget that we need their 1st rounder. Edited November 2, 2022 by J-23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 7 hours ago, Honourable Hughes said: He’s raising his value at least. I’d still like to sign. But we should look at picking our core that wants to stay and doing a rebuild. I’ve always saw Horvat, Petey, Hughes and Demko as the core to build around. Bo has been on this team for almost 10 years now and has only had one decent Playoff run. I don’t see why he sticks around unless he loves it here or wants retirement money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 If Bo wants to go you have to let him and he'll be an easy piece to trade. If he wants to stay, we owe it to him. 8 goals in 10 games on the worst team in the league is nuts, he'd be a 40 goal scorer on a playoff team (if they play him the same role on the PP). That's prime Kesler numbers. There's so many teams who would love him at 2C - Colorado, Calgary, Dallas, Philly, Washington....there's a long list. I think ideally we'd get a 1st + prospect for Bo considering that first will be a mid to late pick. Personally I hope he wants to stay, even through a rebuild he'd be the perfect player to pass the torch along to the next generation but for such a playoff performer at junior, he's never had and deserves a chance now in his career to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Sounds like Detroit have interest and Bo would take them to another level. Larkin, Horvat, Copp, Rasmussen and Sundqvist is a big, heavy and deep set of centers. Coming back they have some great prospects, Edvinssin is probably too rich but Wallinder or Johansson + a 1st would do nicely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Sounds like Detroit have interest and Bo would take them to another level. Larkin, Horvat, Copp, Rasmussen and Sundqvist is a big, heavy and deep set of centers. Coming back they have some great prospects, Edvinssin is probably too rich but Wallinder or Johansson + a 1st would do nicely. Yup. JR said we will need to move players that upset some fans. Moving Bo would upset a lot of us. But if the return was clearly part of a rebuild, then it’s understandable. If it’s just switching Bo for guys to hope to win now with, then it’s very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Coconuts said: Carolina would have to add Can't say I'm high on him either If they add then even better. Essentially the focus here is on finding a C with upside that is in the same age group as Petey and Quinn. Obviously he hasn't proven himself yet, but still has high upside. Horvat's likely 7M vs Kotkaniemi's 4.6M also gives us some cap flexibility to secure the D. If Kotkaniemi was playing lights out this wouldn't even be a possibility, however we need to take some risks for future potential and cost certainty. Any other deal around Horvat would likely center around a mid-late 1st and I would take the odds of Kotkaniemi figuring it out vs that pick. Also gives us a player that is part of the core now vs completely future assets, where we run the risk of Petey and Hughes starting to want out. Definitely a delicate balance. Edited November 2, 2022 by Kobayashi Maru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 32 minutes ago, Kobayashi Maru said: If they add then even better. Essentially the focus here is on finding a C with upside that is in the same age group as Petey and Quinn. Obviously he hasn't proven himself yet, but still has high upside. Horvat's likely 7M vs Kotkaniemi's 4.6M also gives us some cap flexibility to secure the D. If Kotkaniemi was playing lights out this wouldn't even be a possibility, however we need to take some risks for future potential and cost certainty. Any other deal around Horvat would likely center around a mid-late 1st and I would take the odds of Kotkaniemi figuring it out vs that pick. Also gives us a player that is part of the core now vs completely future assets, where we run the risk of Petey and Hughes starting to want out. Definitely a delicate balance. You make a fair argument, Carolina might go for it. Don't know if I'd personally want to, but they might. They're a team that wants to contend now, they could easily re-sign Bo with all the cap they've got coming off the books this season. We'd probably have to retain cap on Bo to make it work though, they've gotta leave space open for Pacioretty to come back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 45 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. JR said we will need to move players that upset some fans. Moving Bo would upset a lot of us. But if the return was clearly part of a rebuild, then it’s understandable. If it’s just switching Bo for guys to hope to win now with, then it’s very bad. Yeah, if they move Bo out and it amounts to just shuffling chairs on a sinking ship I'll be pissed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Coconuts said: You make a fair argument, Carolina might go for it. Don't know if I'd personally want to, but they might. They're a team that wants to contend now, they could easily re-sign Bo with all the cap they've got coming off the books this season. We'd probably have to retain cap on Bo to make it work though, they've gotta leave space open for Pacioretty to come back. True, and if we were embracing the strong re-tool with 21-23 year old players or a full rebuild, then we could retain on Bo this year so they have more flexibility. Ties into their timeline, and we take on a moderate risk and potential high reward (Value of contract, player age and position) to reset to our actual rebuild timeline. Bo increasing value and Kotkaniemi flat/decreasing value to start the season could make this possible, but it could switch in an instant. Edited November 2, 2022 by Kobayashi Maru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 bo is a stud, you don't give him away I think Edvinsson + Anton Johnansson is reasonable, neither are NHLers right now and Bo is the best player win the trade and likely will be, they could even add like adding Rasmussen of Veleno as they are both Cs and will playing behind Larkin and copy for years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 If we went full rebuild, could we not look at Edvinsson, Zadina or Veleno and Cossa for Horvat and Demko? Not sure Detroit is ready for that type of move yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Coconuts said: Yeah, I don't blame it all on current management, they inherited a mess. True enough, the team was a mess but they were hired to provide solutions. So far they have only re-signed two specific players to term and dollars who should have been dealt to create cap space and help to gain picks prospects or younger players. Also, trading picks has been a mistake, this goes along with signing fringe players and not doing anything to shake up the core. Current management belly aches that they are trying to make trades but their hands are tied..... in reality they are perpetuating the same thing Benning did. So far no solutions are apparent from this group. Edited November 2, 2022 by GB5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Kobayashi Maru said: If we went full rebuild, could we not look at Edvinsson, Zadina or Veleno and Cossa for Horvat and Demko? Not sure Detroit is ready for that type of move yet though. I don't think so. I don't think Detroit is at the competitive stage yet, I don't think Bo would really match up with their timeline. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the want to start taking steps towards competing, maybe they'd think Bo could be good for their culture. But I question whether Bo would want to go there, or stay there. If I were him I'd be looking for a more competitive landing spot. 45 minutes ago, GB5 said: True enough, the team was a mess but they were hired to provide solutions. So far they have only re-signed two specific players to term and dollars who should have been dealt to create cap space and help to gain picks prospects or younger players. Also, trading picks has been a mistake, this goes along with signing fringe players and not doing anything to shake up the core. Current management belly aches that they are trying to make trades but their hands are tied..... in reality they are perpetuating the same thing Benning did. So far no solutions are apparent from this group. It looks like that. The Bear gamble is okay, I don't like moving picks. We'll see how he turns out. Spending all our cap putting ourselves in a position where we had to give up a 2nd to move Dickinson is frustrating, they could have factored him into their plan more effectively before going and spending all their cap space. I'd have preferred to have factored keeping him on the roster into plan over the offseason and given him a second chance, would have been more palatable to me to have tried to trade or buy him out with a year remaining on his deal. I'm tired of seeing our management groups burn 2nd round picks. It's not all their mess but they don't appear to have been helping themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Coconuts said: I don't think so. I don't think Detroit is at the competitive stage yet, I don't think Bo would really match up with their timeline. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the want to start taking steps towards competing, maybe they'd think Bo could be good for their culture. But I question whether Bo would want to go there, or stay there. If I were him I'd be looking for a more competitive landing spot. It looks like that. The Bear gamble is okay, I don't like moving picks. We'll see how he turns out. Spending all our cap putting ourselves in a position where we had to give up a 2nd to move Dickinson is frustrating, they could have factored him into their plan more effectively before going and spending all their cap space. I'd have preferred to have factored keeping him on the roster into plan over the offseason and given him a second chance, would have been more palatable to me to have tried to trade or buy him out with a year remaining on his deal. I'm tired of seeing our management groups burn 2nd round picks. It's not all their mess but they don't appear to have been helping themselves. Yup...pretty sure we could have got even "just" a 2nd or 3rd for Boeser's rights last year, combine that with the Miller move that wasn't, And you've cleared $11.9m. We could have brought back Chytil's $2.3, Lundkvists $.95, and added Marino's $4.4 (minus Rathbone's $.85) for a total of $6.8/clearing $5.1 of additional space. Enough to not need to pay to clear Dickinson/simply waive him for the $1.1 savings or $3.55m of actual cap space still (Lyubushkin?). All this while still signing Mik at $4.75 to replace F depth and add his speed/PK ability etc. Edited November 2, 2022 by aGENT 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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