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[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks


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37 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Horvat on our team, likely scores over 40 for a few more seasons.    We should re-sign him if we can as long as it doesn't get much higher than 8.    If we can't do that, then let's hope he doesn't get injured and keeps scoring.   On pace to end up in special company.     Doubt he scores 50 ever again.   But do think the way we are utilizing him, on this team anyways, his shot volume going way up, will mitigate his shooting percentage going down.   And like Naslund, Tanti, Bure etc - has a solid chance of rattling off 40 plus goals multiple times.   He was scoring the most under Bruce last season too.     Think he's a 30 goal guy next year on a different team.   Takes time to adjust to new faces, a different system etc,     NHL media panels have been debating whether or not he's really a number one center...but also gushing over him and making comments like "you win cups with a guy like Horvat".   

 

There is room for Horvat too.   Our team hasn't had great goaltending, and of course our PK is awful / that's a defense issue.    Trading Horvat might plug a hole.  Big maybe.   Signing Horvat won't be a mistake though.    Not his fault the previous regime screwed it up.   And it's not like he wasn't well paid either.   He was. 

There is every possibility that Horvat could hit 40 goals again next year and maybe even the year after.  No doubt I agree with you.  The problem is our defence sucks.  It is not sustainable to try and make the playoffs when Myers, Bear and Schenn are your RHD and two of those guys are in the top 4.  We aren't going anywhere with those Dmen.  Horvat can be scoring 60 goals, which he is on pace for, and we still aren't making the playoffs, so what is the point of re-signing him if that doesn't allow us to fix the defence?

 

At the end of the day, we are not getting a top 4 Dman for Boeser, Garland, Myers or Pearson.  Miller is off the table even though some still think he can be traded.  That leaves Horvat as our only trade chip to fix the defence.  JR needs to maximize Horvat's career year and somehow find a way to get that top 4 RHD from a Horvat trade...

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28 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

There is every possibility that Horvat could hit 40 goals again next year and maybe even the year after.  No doubt I agree with you.  The problem is our defence sucks.  It is not sustainable to try and make the playoffs when Myers, Bear and Schenn are your RHD and two of those guys are in the top 4.  We aren't going anywhere with those Dmen.  Horvat can be scoring 60 goals, which he is on pace for, and we still aren't making the playoffs, so what is the point of re-signing him if that doesn't allow us to fix the defence?

 

At the end of the day, we are not getting a top 4 Dman for Boeser, Garland, Myers or Pearson.  Miller is off the table even though some still think he can be traded.  That leaves Horvat as our only trade chip to fix the defence.  JR needs to maximize Horvat's career year and somehow find a way to get that top 4 RHD from a Horvat trade...

i honestly don't see a team offering a top 4 RHD for horvat either.. they may offer a prospect with maybe top 4 capability but they ain't going to be giving you a top 4 defenceman off their roster for a rental. defence wins championship i don't see a team casually taking a young top 4 defenceman off their roster and have the depth to replace it. hence i think if it's going to be a rhd. it's going to be a rhd prospect aka magic beans.. might as well take multiple 1st rounders and blindly pick some high ranked defence prospect and hope it works out. i hope i'm wrong.. but i really don't see teams lined up with a young top 6 rhd to trade.. hell if we are trading one of the leading goal scorer in the league.. i'd want not just a top 4 rhd back.. i want a rhd with top pairing potential and will add if necessary.

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29 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i honestly don't see a team offering a top 4 RHD for horvat either.. they may offer a prospect with maybe top 4 capability but they ain't going to be giving you a top 4 defenceman off their roster for a rental. defence wins championship i don't see a team casually taking a young top 4 defenceman off their roster and have the depth to replace it. hence i think if it's going to be a rhd. it's going to be a rhd prospect aka magic beans.. might as well take multiple 1st rounders and blindly pick some high ranked defence prospect and hope it works out. i hope i'm wrong.. but i really don't see teams lined up with a young top 6 rhd to trade.. hell if we are trading one of the leading goal scorer in the league.. i'd want not just a top 4 rhd back.. i want a rhd with top pairing potential and will add if necessary.

I agree, the trade won't be easy which is why it hasn't happened yet.  Apparently, we weren't offered a top 4 RHD for Miller either which is why no deal was made.  Unless people think Lundkvist is somehow a top 4 Dman.

 

At the end of the day, JR/PA need to make a decision.  Can they make that trade to get the top 4 Dman, or will they re-sign Horvat to an 8x8 deal, or will they let him walk for free?

 

Letting him walk for free is not an option.  Re-signing him to an 8x8 deal is not going to fix the defence and we still won't be a playoff team not even if he scores 60 goals.  So the pressure is on to make that home run deal.  As long as Horvat continues to score goals there is always a chance a team will bite and give up a huge package to try and win the cup.  

 

My favourite deal right now is Horvat and Schenn for Schneider, Othmann and a 2023 1st round pick.  Apparently, Lafreniere if off the table so we should be trying to get Othmann instead.  The Rangers are in winning the cup mode right now.  No reason they shouldn't try and take another shot this year.  They have two 1st round picks, so it won't hurt them to give up one of those picks.  Schneider will be a 3rd pairing guy for at least another 3 years playing behind Fox and Trouba.  And if Lafreniere is around then I don't see how Othmann can make their team anytime soon.  So, the trade makes sense for both parties.

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2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I agree, the trade won't be easy which is why it hasn't happened yet.  Apparently, we weren't offered a top 4 RHD for Miller either which is why no deal was made.  Unless people think Lundkvist is somehow a top 4 Dman.

 

At the end of the day, JR/PA need to make a decision.  Can they make that trade to get the top 4 Dman, or will they re-sign Horvat to an 8x8 deal, or will they let him walk for free?

 

Letting him walk for free is not an option.  Re-signing him to an 8x8 deal is not going to fix the defence and we still won't be a playoff team not even if he scores 60 goals.  So the pressure is on to make that home run deal.  As long as Horvat continues to score goals there is always a chance a team will bite and give up a huge package to try and win the cup.  

 

My favourite deal right now is Horvat and Schenn for Schneider, Othmann and a 2023 1st round pick.  Apparently, Lafreniere if off the table so we should be trying to get Othmann instead.  The Rangers are in winning the cup mode right now.  No reason they shouldn't try and take another shot this year.  They have two 1st round picks, so it won't hurt them to give up one of those picks.  Schneider will be a 3rd pairing guy for at least another 3 years playing behind Fox and Trouba.  And if Lafreniere is around then I don't see how Othmann can make their team anytime soon.  So, the trade makes sense for both parties.

Getting Schneider as the key piece for Bo is a good deal.  But how long before the two futures in that deal get moved for a player who is more NHL ready in hopes to prevent any step back?  

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8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Getting Schneider as the key piece for Bo is a good deal.  But how long before the two futures in that deal get moved for a player who is more NHL ready in hopes to prevent any step back?  

Othmann looks like he might be able to make the jump to the NHL as early as next year.  The year after at the latest I think.  I would pair him up with Miller on the second line.

 

In terms of the extra 1st round pick, we can always use it as collateral to move up in the draft this year to get a better player.  Or we can use it to get another young player who can step into the lineup.  

 

As for Schneider, I can see him being the partner for Hughes for the next decade...

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I refuse to believe that a top 4, 20 minute young RD is that hard to acquire. Marino went to NJD for basically scraps - an AHL defenceman and 2nd round pick. We had a 99pt two way center last year. We now have a 60 goal scoring faceoff king. Management have no more excuses.

 

There are so many teams with plenty of young defencemen out there, also who need scoring. They simply haven't got it done.

 

Say what you will about JB and his terrible cap management but he would have been able to trade for a top-4 defenceman, perhaps even with Boeser or Garland. We may have lost a 2nd round pick and overpaid Bo as a result but we'd have a far better team than what we have right now.

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2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Othmann looks like he might be able to make the jump to the NHL as early as next year.  The year after at the latest I think.  I would pair him up with Miller on the second line.

 

In terms of the extra 1st round pick, we can always use it as collateral to move up in the draft this year to get a better player.  Or we can use it to get another young player who can step into the lineup.  

 

As for Schneider, I can see him being the partner for Hughes for the next decade...

Yes, that what a rebuilding/retooling plan would include.  Will our owner allow that?  I say no. 

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18 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I agree, the trade won't be easy which is why it hasn't happened yet.  Apparently, we weren't offered a top 4 RHD for Miller either which is why no deal was made.  Unless people think Lundkvist is somehow a top 4 Dman.

 

At the end of the day, JR/PA need to make a decision.  Can they make that trade to get the top 4 Dman, or will they re-sign Horvat to an 8x8 deal, or will they let him walk for free?

 

Letting him walk for free is not an option.  Re-signing him to an 8x8 deal is not going to fix the defence and we still won't be a playoff team not even if he scores 60 goals.  So the pressure is on to make that home run deal.  As long as Horvat continues to score goals there is always a chance a team will bite and give up a huge package to try and win the cup.  

 

My favourite deal right now is Horvat and Schenn for Schneider, Othmann and a 2023 1st round pick.  Apparently, Lafreniere if off the table so we should be trying to get Othmann instead.  The Rangers are in winning the cup mode right now.  No reason they shouldn't try and take another shot this year.  They have two 1st round picks, so it won't hurt them to give up one of those picks.  Schneider will be a 3rd pairing guy for at least another 3 years playing behind Fox and Trouba.  And if Lafreniere is around then I don't see how Othmann can make their team anytime soon.  So, the trade makes sense for both parties.

i like the ranger trade but i don't see it happening rangers wouldn't give up anything like that last year for 2 years of miller.. i doubt they'll give anything like that for couple months of horvat.. there's no realistic chance rangers can re-sign horvat with 4 players over 8mil already on their roster. unless they think of themself as a legitimate cup contender. at this point they are not even a guaranteed lock to make the playoff so i doubt they do a crazy package like that.

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Just now, Alflives said:

Yes, that what a rebuilding/retooling plan would include.  Will our owner allow that?  I say no. 

Well, Horvat is on pace for 60 goals and we aren't even a playoff team.  So how are we going to make the playoffs if we sign him to an 8x8 contract?  Trading Boeser, Pearson and Myers isn't going to land us any difference makers.  Heck we might even have to add a pick to get rid of them.  So Aqulini's dream of being a playoff team isn't reasonable if we keep the status quo.  I am sure he understands this by now.  Last year was different because we were plying lights out and actually had a shot to make the playoffs.  This year we are closer to getting Bedard than we are to make the playoffs.

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8 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i like the ranger trade but i don't see it happening rangers wouldn't give up anything like that last year for 2 years of miller.. i doubt they'll give anything like that for couple months of horvat.. there's no realistic chance rangers can re-sign horvat with 4 players over 8mil already on their roster. unless they think of themself as a legitimate cup contender. at this point they are not even a guaranteed lock to make the playoff so i doubt they do a crazy package like that.

Well CDC thinks that Horvat is a much better player than Miller and much more valuable, so I am assuming the Rangers feel the same way so will give up more for Horvat than they offered for Miller.

 

I'm pretty sure the Rangers easily make the playoffs if they add Horvat and Schenn.

 

No, they probably don't have the room for Horvat, so he would be a pure rental as will Schenn.  The goal is to win the cup.  Like I said, Schneider and Othmann won't be a big part of the Rangers lineup anytime soon and they have an extra 1st round pick they can give up.  It's alot to give up for 2 months of Horvat and Schenn, I agree.  But it would be a pretty good deal for us, almost a home run really, so JR/PA really need to convince the Rangers that Horvat and Schenn are their missing pieces to win the cup.

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We have a lot of evidence that our owner sets a direction where core pieces aren't traded, but extended.  And if they are traded (Kesler) the return needs to be players to help now.  And any futures will be moved (in time, like with the first we used to get McCann) to get players more ready to help now. 

IMHAO we will extend Bo.  But if we do trade him (which I doubt) it will be very similar to the Kesler return.  So players to help now, and any futures will be moved (in time) to get more guys to help now.  

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50 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Well CDC thinks that Horvat is a much better player than Miller and much more valuable, so I am assuming the Rangers feel the same way so will give up more for Horvat than they offered for Miller.

 

I'm pretty sure the Rangers easily make the playoffs if they add Horvat and Schenn.

 

No, they probably don't have the room for Horvat, so he would be a pure rental as will Schenn.  The goal is to win the cup.  Like I said, Schneider and Othmann won't be a big part of the Rangers lineup anytime soon and they have an extra 1st round pick they can give up.  It's alot to give up for 2 months of Horvat and Schenn, I agree.  But it would be a pretty good deal for us, almost a home run really, so JR/PA really need to convince the Rangers that Horvat and Schenn are their missing pieces to win the cup.

i dunno about the easily make the playoffs.. the 3-9 spot in the east i think is highly contested. i'm not sure they view themselves as a legitimate cup contender.. if they end up in the 7-8th spot.. it could be a real short playoff appearance i don't see them getting past the bruins or the canes horvat or not. it would be a great deal for us but i think the asking price is too high for rangers for a 2 month rental and they look elsewhere. if captain serious is available i see the rangers go for that instead as the asking price would be significantly lower.. i'm thinking a 1st rounder and maybe some low prospect would be enough. he would be a great 3c on the rangers. but we shall see 7-8 more weeks to go.. or maybe we'll see some movement early.. looking at the next 8 games.. we could very well end up on a 10-11 game losing streak.

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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

14.1% is ALOT lower than 25% and makes him a 30 goal scorer and a 60 point guy.  Also, you are including his anomaly season to get to 14.1%.  Ovechkin has taken 176 shots this year and has scored 28 goals.  Horvat has taken only 122 shots and has also scored 28 goals.  That is not sustainable and everyone knows it.

Never mentioned 25%. Was just pointing out the fact that over his career he does indeed have a better shooting percentage. Even though you highly doubted it. 

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9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I highly doubt Horvat will continue to have a shooting % that is better than the greatest goal scorer in NHL history

I took a look and the best ever goal scorer had a career percentage of 21.2%

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/mike-bossy-shot-percentage-career#:~:text=Mike Bossy Shot Percentage Career | StatMuse Mike,shooting percentage going back to the 1959-60 season.

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11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Cheechoo was 25 so a couple years younger than BO. By age 28 Cheechoo was a 12 goal scorer. 
 

The main thing to consider with BO in that his shooting % is currently 25%. So he’s scoring a goal on every 4 shots. In comparison, Ovechkin’s shooting % over his career is 13%. 
 

25% is not sustainable. Not even close. Once BO drops back to reality and his shooting % drops to 12% he will go back to being a 30 goal scorer and 60 point guy. He’s not a playmaker so he will never pile up assists either. 
 

If he gets traded he may not get that bumper spot back either. Our power play is currently constructed to give BO maximum opportunity to score in the bumper spot. Not every team will have the same set up. He is having a career year at the perfect time that will be impossible to statistically replicate. A Jonathan Cheechoo type year where everything goes in. 
 

 

Exactly, this is why we can't fall in love with the player for 1 career year. When his shooting percentage goes back to reality he is a 25-30 goal guy with maybe 25 assist. About a 50-55 PT guy. I'm sorry but you can't pay 8-8.5 million for 50-60pts. Everyone was offended by their offer of the Nugent-Hopkins comparison but that was spot on. He wasn't really a difference maker, he's a complimentary piece. He has to understand that he's not "the guy" here and can't command what he's asking if he wants to be here. Petey,Hughes,Demko,Miller are all ahead of Bo. I say trade him and we will be thankful later on. On a new team with not as much PP opportunity he will be lucky to hit 55-60PTS. He isn't a 5on5 driver. Trade Bo!

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

We have a lot of evidence that our owner sets a direction where core pieces aren't traded, but extended.  And if they are traded (Kesler) the return needs to be players to help now.  And any futures will be moved (in time, like with the first we used to get McCann) to get players more ready to help now. 

IMHAO we will extend Bo.  But if we do trade him (which I doubt) it will be very similar to the Kesler return.  So players to help now, and any futures will be moved (in time) to get more guys to help now.  

Agreed Ownership selling futures for ill advised win never strategy has been one of the main failing of the past decade. 
 

i feel like the horvat situation is much like the tanev one. 
Once Jaded strong people/leaders move on. He was done with the Nucks in the summer. 
and who could blame him stay and lose or  leave and have a chance at a cup (or at the very least winning) and play for a professional  organization that has a direction and a viable plan. 
So I don’t  think horvat will stay here regardless of what idiot Francesco wants. 
I think he’ll be in Colorado soon.
meanwhile we will continue to toil with these owners  and their lose now mandate and have no future strategy.

 

Ownership chose the wrong player again… but really  why is anyone be surprised. 

 

 

 

 


 

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47 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

Exactly, this is why we can't fall in love with the player for 1 career year. When his shooting percentage goes back to reality he is a 25-30 goal guy with maybe 25 assist. About a 50-55 PT guy. I'm sorry but you can't pay 8-8.5 million for 50-60pts. Everyone was offended by their offer of the Nugent-Hopkins comparison but that was spot on. He wasn't really a difference maker, he's a complimentary piece. He has to understand that he's not "the guy" here and can't command what he's asking if he wants to be here. Petey,Hughes,Demko,Miller are all ahead of Bo. I say trade him and we will be thankful later on. On a new team with not as much PP opportunity he will be lucky to hit 55-60PTS. He isn't a 5on5 driver. Trade Bo!

when his shooting percentage goes back to reality.. say 15%.. he finished at 16% last season.. he's on pace for over 40+ goals.. so keep on hating.. his shot attempts and his shooting percentage have been steadily rising for the last 4 years even if you don't factor in this year.. god forbid there's no way horvat can maybe possibly slowly improve each year as he gets towards his peak prime. i dunno in what world Miller is ahead of bo right now.. 

 

funny you mentioned that.. he has more 5v5/sh goals than anyone else on the team have in total goals.. but ya let's continue with the he sucks 5v5 narrative.. you know who sucks without the PP?? maybe the guy that have more than half of his points on the PP aka Miller.. horvat have 1/3 of his points on the pp while Miller have more than half his points on the pp.. so who needs the pp more?

 

take out every single horvat's PP goal.. he's still on pace for over 40..

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55 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

Exactly, this is why we can't fall in love with the player for 1 career year. When his shooting percentage goes back to reality he is a 25-30 goal guy with maybe 25 assist. About a 50-55 PT guy. I'm sorry but you can't pay 8-8.5 million for 50-60pts. Everyone was offended by their offer of the Nugent-Hopkins comparison but that was spot on. He wasn't really a difference maker, he's a complimentary piece. He has to understand that he's not "the guy" here and can't command what he's asking if he wants to be here. Petey,Hughes,Demko,Miller are all ahead of Bo. I say trade him and we will be thankful later on. On a new team with not as much PP opportunity he will be lucky to hit 55-60PTS. He isn't a 5on5 driver.

Miller on pace for 68 points and -33, can’t play Center is totally ineffective in his zone ( but he’s a difference maker?) 

Horvat has taken  800 faceoffs this season and is 2nd in faceoff wins only bergeron is better. ( oh and by the way that makes a difference ) 
Career year in in points but he’s scored 30 goals last year he’ll do it again this year 

he’s a far more complete player and fills more needs for this team 

than miller does. 
 

miller has taken just over 200 faceoffs. 

career ppg 

miller ppg -   .7 

horvat ppg - .67 

horvats will go up just like millers did after his career year.

 


and if you go back and compare JT miller to horvats when he was horvats age it’s even more obvious horvat is the more complete and  player and that’s playing with Sam Gagne Louie Erickson and mountain of total trash as line mates. 

 

What Jt  brings would be far easier to replaced.  
 

Horvat will be traded thou I’m pretty sure he’s done with Francesco circus of stupid. 
 


 


 





 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Canucks threw $56 million at JT Miller for getting 99 points last year. Watch Horvat get over 100 this year.

 

Allvin - not a great forecaster

Really. So you forecasted that Bo would go on a tear like this when his body of work has always been 25-30 goals? Come on. NO one forecasted this.

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