Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks


HOFsedins

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

What do you mean? Ovechkin's career percentage isn't 21.2%. Sorry to break it to you, but Ovi played against athletic goalies with bigger pads who actually covered the bottom of the ice. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i should clarify when i say not scoring i mean not producing points not just scoring goals.. Miller is ok in the faceoff but other than that he's really not a center.. being the center on the line usually puts all the defensive onus on you. he has 0 defensive awareness and 0 commitment to playing defence. otherwise he wouldn't have been removed as a center for good chunk of the season. Horvat is guity of not playing defense at times too but not as often. i think it's fair to say horvat is a significantly less of a liability on the ice than Miller is.. it's to the point where you don't even have to think twice about benching miller in OT. it's also not fair to be comparing production of miller's production the last 3 years aged 26-27-28 and then using horvat's 24-25-26 as comparison coz if you look at miller's number from 24-26.. i can easily argue miller is a 50-60 point player at best. prior to him having an opportunity to be a top line player. People are calling horvat a 60 point player at best.. but they accepted the fact Miller is allowed to get better and better as he aged towards his peak but have it engraved in their mind horvat is not allowed to hit his prime and get better as he age towards his peak.. so how exactly does that work... we don't know where horvat's peak is as an offensive player because he never was played as an offensive player.. who knows maybe if he had a playmaker on his line the entire career he might have been a constant 35-40 goals scorer instead of having defensive players like LE and pearson. horvat as a 60 goal scorer? probably not. a consistent 35-40 goal scorer with around 30-35 assist for 70 points consistently? i can see that. i have no issue with paying horvat 8mil if he can consistently pot in 35-40 goals while doing his 2C duties.. i didn't have issue with miller and his 7x8mil contract in the summer. but i have issue with that contract if he can't be relied upon consistently as a center that won't hurt the team. miller i believe can still turn it around.. but whether he wants to or not i think is a bit concerning.. Miller ever since he came to vancouver gives me the vibe as an aggrogant me first player.. his on ice antics and his off ice interview just for whatever reason always gives me that vibe.. kesler was like an aggrogant prick but he plays hard and works hard for his teammates.. i dunno if the same can be said about miller. 

Only worry I have is Bo leaning back a bit like Miller and becoming a similar poins scoring player... 50-60pts like before...

I think 2 players being paid 8M each on top of Peteys probably 11M contract is a bit steep for a core that can't even get us to the play offs...


Will a few defensive upgrades change it? Maybe, hopefully, hmmmm.... Defo not worth a big bet...

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Only worry I have is Bo leaning back a bit like Miller and becoming a similar poins scoring player... 50-60pts like before...

I think 2 players being paid 8M each on top of Peteys probably 11M contract is a bit steep for a core that can't even get us to the play offs...


Will a few defensive upgrades change it? Maybe, hopefully, hmmmm.... Defo not worth a big bet...

there's really nothing wrong with paying x amount of players 8mil+.. the issue is we have a lot of bad contract on the team and we have 0 defence on the core.. well defensive player anyways..between dead caps overpaid and under performing players like OEL boeser garland etc.. those are more of the issue. just like Mcdavid can't carry edmonton by himself either.. they simply have 0 defensive player on that core.. replace horvat with mcdavid.. this team still wouldn't be able to defend a lead.and i don't think the defence can be fixed unless they find a way to dump OEL and ride out myer.. we cant keep dumping money into the defence.. we already have one of the most expensive defence in the league.. at this rate we'll have the most expensive defence in the league while having no depth in forwards because we allocated everything into defence to over compensate.

  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Horvat on our team, likely scores over 40 for a few more seasons.    We should re-sign him if we can as long as it doesn't get much higher than 8.    If we can't do that, then let's hope he doesn't get injured and keeps scoring.   On pace to end up in special company.     Doubt he scores 50 ever again.   But do think the way we are utilizing him, on this team anyways, his shot volume going way up, will mitigate his shooting percentage going down.   And like Naslund, Tanti, Bure etc - has a solid chance of rattling off 40 plus goals multiple times.   He was scoring the most under Bruce last season too.     Think he's a 30 goal guy next year on a different team.   Takes time to adjust to new faces, a different system etc,     NHL media panels have been debating whether or not he's really a number one center...but also gushing over him and making comments like "you win cups with a guy like Horvat".   

 

There is room for Horvat too.   Our team hasn't had great goaltending, and of course our PK is awful / that's a defense issue.    Trading Horvat might plug a hole.  Big maybe.   Signing Horvat won't be a mistake though.    Not his fault the previous regime screwed it up.   And it's not like he wasn't well paid either.   He was. 

What counts in Horvats favour (in my humble opinion), was during the buble run, where he stepped up to the plate, and was our best forward. 
He has it in him to find the extra 5-10% that makes you win. 
 

Between Miller and Bo, I choose Bo, but only because of how Miller has acted this year. 
Bo this year paired with Miller last year would be an awesome duo....

 

But because of Miller taking the first month off, and seemingly acting like a bit of a dick, I harbour concerns, what would happen, if Bo also would have a dip in form. 
 

For now this season, I just want to suck, and get as many 1st / 2nd round picks (or good prospects) as possible, so we have fresh blood coming through to help with the cap. Suck next year as well, if needed until Myers is ready get traded at TDL, and then start over with rebuilding the D. Unfortunately, I think it will be more of the same, as the last 8 years...

A mix of never being bad enough to get the top pick, rotten luck at the draft, and moral victories will keep us from getting the superstars (unless Petey is one) that PA said we don't have...

My only question to PA would be, if we don't have any superstars, and we know you don't win without superstars, how are we going to get them with this middle/ just below middle of the pack crap, that we are watching?

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I refuse to believe that a top 4, 20 minute young RD is that hard to acquire. Marino went to NJD for basically scraps - an AHL defenceman and 2nd round pick. We had a 99pt two way center last year. We now have a 60 goal scoring faceoff king. Management have no more excuses.

 

There are so many teams with plenty of young defencemen out there, also who need scoring. They simply haven't got it done.

 

Say what you will about JB and his terrible cap management but he would have been able to trade for a top-4 defenceman, perhaps even with Boeser or Garland. We may have lost a 2nd round pick and overpaid Bo as a result but we'd have a far better team than what we have right now.

Ty Smith was picked 17th overall and is in the AHL because he is still waiver free - Pittsburgh wanted futures and cap space.   Vancouver didn't have cap space.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, mll said:

Ty Smith was picked 17th overall and is in the AHL because he is still waiver free - Pittsburgh wanted futures and cap space.   Vancouver didn't have cap space.  

We did before we signed Mikayev who wasn’t nearly as big of a need.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

there's really nothing wrong with paying x amount of players 8mil+.. the issue is we have a lot of bad contract on the team and we have 0 defence on the core.. well defensive player anyways..between dead caps overpaid and under performing players like OEL boeser garland etc.. those are more of the issue. just like Mcdavid can't carry edmonton by himself either.. they simply have 0 defensive player on that core.. replace horvat with mcdavid.. this team still wouldn't be able to defend a lead.and i don't think the defence can be fixed unless they find a way to dump OEL and ride out myer.. we cant keep dumping money into the defence.. we already have one of the most expensive defence in the league.. at this rate we'll have the most expensive defence in the league while having no depth in forwards because we allocated everything into defence to over compensate.

I hear you but OEL is going nowhere, and if Bo doesn't continue in this form after this season, we will have Bo, Miller, OEL on long contracts for the next 6+ years. 
Imagine OEL + LE + similar on the team for 6 years... not saying this will happen, but seeing Miller falling off a cliff edge to start the season, didn't fill me with much positive expectation... 

 

Getting rid of Brock won't get us much, Garland not too much neither, so except from Kuz, I fail to see, where the building blocks for this team shall come from. FA cost a fortune, and often don't live up to expectation, so from where I stand, the question is, how much better will this team be even without Brock or Garland on it... better yes, but proper challenging better? Hmmm. Not convinced. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dhaliwal says he's not hearing Miller on the block. He also insists that the Canucks have been trying to trade the players he lists for months and months.  Says they'll have to be creative to move them.    

 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, mll said:

Ty Smith was picked 17th overall and is in the AHL because he is still waiver free - Pittsburgh wanted futures and cap space.   Vancouver didn't have cap space.  

Rathbone + 2nd for Marino, simply don't sign Mikheyev (yet another winger). Problem solved. It was all there, management just decided to neglect defence again.

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Rathbone + 2nd for Marino, simply don't sign Mikheyev (yet another winger). Problem solved. It was all there, management just decided to neglect defence again.

Marino was definitely a miss even if they needed to add a bit more.  Mikheyev is a player that should be part of our core because of his speed and defensive ability (Plus finalization of Kuz to sign as well potentially), but they should have had a plan to move out Garland or Boeser at the same time to neutralize cap.  Too many offensive wingers that provide minimal offense.

  • Cheers 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Rathbone + 2nd for Marino, simply don't sign Mikheyev (yet another winger). Problem solved. It was all there, management just decided to neglect defence again.

I like Mikheyev. 

We need more guys like him. 

I would have preferred they didn't sign Boeser or just give him a 1 year qo and obviously trade Miller. 

 

Before Miller signed his contract, I was a big proponent of wanting to move him. I then saw the figures and realized that's not an overpayment. That was a fair contract he signed. 

I feel like he can still be moveable for a team that needs offence. 

He's obviously not worth what he was at the tdl but I dont think we are by any means "stuck" with him. 

 

 

  • Cheers 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I like Mikheyev. 

We need more guys like him. 

I would have preferred they didn't sign Boeser or just give him a 1 year qo and obviously trade Miller. 

 

Before Miller signed his contract, I was a big proponent of wanting to move him. I then saw the figures and realized that's not an overpayment. That was a fair contract he signed. 

I feel like he can still be moveable for a team that needs offence. 

He's obviously not worth what he was at the tdl but I dont think we are by any means "stuck" with him. 

 

 

Absolute gold standard would have been get Marino, flip Boeser and Garland, get Mikheyev and then we can resign Kuz as well. Sadly we're just gona end up with a bunch of wingers we can't shift, no defence and next lose Bo too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

What do you mean? Ovechkin's career percentage isn't 21.2%. Sorry to break it to you, but Ovi played against athletic goalies with bigger pads who actually covered the bottom of the ice. 

What I mean is Mike Bossy was the greatest goal scorer in NHL history.

  • There it is 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, mll said:

Dhaliwal says he's not hearing Miller on the block. He also insists that the Canucks have been trying to trade the players he lists for months and months.  Says they'll have to be creative to move them.    

 

Who really makes sense to buyout though?

 

Myers after his bonus is paid should be able to be traded. Even if you retain some it’s better than being stuck with a 5+ million cap hit next season and then another small one the following season.

 

Garland equals 6 more years of cap hit around 2 mil, and Boeser would equal 4 more years with a 2 mil cap hit.

 

It would be much smarter to retain, get out of the cap hit sooner, and maybe even get an asset out of it at least.

 

Edited by DeNiro
  • Cheers 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

Marino was definitely a miss even if they needed to add a bit more.  Mikheyev is a player that should be part of our core because of his speed and defensive ability (Plus finalization of Kuz to sign as well potentially), but they should have had a plan to move out Garland or Boeser at the same time to neutralize cap.  Too many offensive wingers that provide minimal offense.

As per below post, seems they have been trying to find dance partners, but nobody wants to dance with the ugly sister....

 

 

58 minutes ago, mll said:

Dhaliwal says he's not hearing Miller on the block. He also insists that the Canucks have been trying to trade the players he lists for months and months.  Says they'll have to be creative to move them.    

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Who really makes sense to buyout though?

 

Myers after his bonus is paid should be able to be traded. Even if you retain some it’s better than being stuck with a 5+ million cap hit next season and then another small one the following season.

 

Garland equals 6 more years of cap hit around 2 mil, and Boeser would equal 4 more years with a 2 mil cap hit.

 

It would be much smarter to retain, get out of the cap hit sooner, and maybe even get an asset out of it at least.

Myers at 3M retained and take one or two expiring contracts to make is work on top of a pick or prospect should have a fair few play offs teams interested... 

 

If Canucks decide to suck for the rest of this season and the next, I wouldn't matter at all to retain a good sum on players like Myers in particular, Pearson, Brock, maybe even Garland...  And by retaining, those players should by easily moved, and may even be able to fetch a few nice things along the way in picks or prospects.

  • Cheers 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

If Canucks decide to suck for the rest of this season and the next, I wouldn't matter at all to retain a good sum on players like Myers in particular, Pearson, Brock, maybe even Garland...  And by retaining, those players should by easily moved, and may even be able to fetch a few nice things along the way in picks or prospects.

Exactly.

 

I can’t see any buyout that would make sense.

 

Retaining 50% of Boeser or Myers contract would be way better than having buyout penalties for the next 4 years.


And like you said at those cap hits could probably fetch actual assets.

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mll said:

Dhaliwal says he's not hearing Miller on the block. He also insists that the Canucks have been trying to trade the players he lists for months and months.  Says they'll have to be creative to move them.    

 

@coryberg More examples of a team stating they are done with a player and waiting on a trade. As before, reported by insiders vs a press release. We’re you arguing that they don’t say it directly/explicitly? Still can’t figure out your point, unless you just really wanted Lafreniere, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, spook007 said:

If Canucks decide to suck for the rest of this season and the next, I wouldn't matter at all to retain a good sum on players like Myers in particular, Pearson, Brock, maybe even Garland...  And by retaining, those players should by easily moved, and may even be able to fetch a few nice things along the way in picks or prospects.

Exactly this.  Myers at 3M, Boeser at 4.5M and Pearson at 2M should be able to get actual assets back with the Myers and Pearson contracts being done shortly after that.

Edited by Kobayashi Maru
  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

Exactly this.  Myers at 3M, Boeser at 4.5M and Pearson at 2M should be able to get actual assets back with the Myers and Pearson contracts being done shortly after that.

If it’s at the deadline, sure - get the assets back. But in the off-season, that means we’d be replacing them with lower quality players, burning another prime year for Petey and Hughes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...